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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: cleoo on May 17, 2006, 10:49:26 pm
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I just bought a 1982 Rabbit Diesel 4 door that sat in an open field for 3 years. It has over 230,000 miles.
According to the previous owner, the wiring had shorted and caught on fire. (Is that a normal occurrence with these?).
Well, he jerry-rigged the wiring to get it to work. He had wires all over the engine bay hooked up to glow plugs, injection pumps, starter and 3 household light switches.
I don't know how well it worked, but I guess not very well. So, it sat in that open field under a tree.
I just bought a 1982 Rabbit GAS wiring harness. I'm hoping it will work with the diesel. Or I'm going to have to re-wire the old harness.
Here are the things that I've run across with this Rabbit:
1) Wiring harness shorted/burned.
What if anything did this screw up?
2) Power steering level is at the very bottom. (Top up?)
3) Brake Reservoir Cap is cracked but there is fluid in the reservoir.
(Replace cap, bleed and refill with brake fluid?)
4) Coolant overflow tank is completely dry.
(Refill with phosphate-free coolant?)
5) Corroded battery connections
(Replace with new battery cables?)
6) Looks like diesel is in the clear fuel line leading from the fuel filter.
(Replace fuel filter?)
7) A check of the dipstick shows that it is full but is black as can be.
(Drain oil. change oil filter and refill with 20w50 oil?)
I've seen some other posts regarding restarting an old "mothballed" diesel , but what else do I do about this particular diesel?
Is there something else I need to do to get it to start?
Please indicate what type of oil and oil filter and brake fluid and coolant and power steering fluid.
Any special problems that I may encounter?
I'd like to just get it started.
Thanks,
Chris.
:shock:
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yea change the oil right away. don't even attempt to start it without an oil change. the oil has probably broken down and turned acidic... who knows. the TBN must be very low on it. your best bet is to replace all fluids, just as a precaution, and especially if they were left open to the elements. one thing would be to add where the rabbit was stationary, as in what kind of climate. If in Canada, the humid climate would definitely have ruined the oil.
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After 3 years in a field the cylinderwalls are corroded for sure... I suggest you pull the head to take a look inside. If you start it with the walls corroded you damage the pistons/rings.
The wiring harnass of a gasser is not very useful, the engine- and interiorpart has different wires.
I suggest you replace all fluids, braklefluid (moisturelevels in the opil will be very high = low boiling point) and probable the diesel too.
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After 3 years in a field the cylinderwalls are corroded for sure... I suggest you pull the head to take a look inside. If you start it with the walls corroded you damage the pistons/rings.
The wiring harnass of a gasser is not very useful, the engine- and interiorpart has different wires.
I suggest you replace all fluids, braklefluid (moisturelevels in the opil will be very high = low boiling point) and probable the diesel too.
Doesn't that seem a bit hasty? I'm just asking because I've never pulled a head for that. Wouldn't corrosion come from moisture, do you really think their would be enough moisture to corrode it bad enough to damage the rings upon startup?
I'm not trying to stir the pot, I've just bought a lot of cars that have been sitting for a while and have never gone that far unless a compression test told me I should.
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i don't really see what would make the cylinders so corroded that the head needs pulled.
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After 3 years in a field the cylinderwalls are corroded for sure... I suggest you pull the head to take a look inside. If you start it with the walls corroded you damage the pistons/rings.
The wiring harnass of a gasser is not very useful, the engine- and interiorpart has different wires.
I suggest you replace all fluids, braklefluid (moisturelevels in the opil will be very high = low boiling point) and probable the diesel too.
:? I've read posts here where diesels have been 'mothballed' or sitting for 3-4 years and just pretty much started it up after changing the vital fluids.
I looked inside the camshaft area and it looks pretty shiny to me, so would that indicate anything?
The car was in San Diego, probably 30 miles from the coast. It was parked under a tree and then in a junk yard. The car is relatively rust free. There is some rust on the back hatch along the bottom of the window, not much. There is rust on the sunroof, but nowhere else.
As for the wiring harness, the only wires close that I've found was that gas one. I've checked certain junkyards, but still no luck.
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yea change the oil right away. don't even attempt to start it without an oil change. the oil has probably broken down and turned acidic... who knows. the TBN must be very low on it. your best bet is to replace all fluids, just as a precaution, and especially if they were left open to the elements. one thing would be to add where the rabbit was stationary, as in what kind of climate. If in Canada, the humid climate would definitely have ruined the oil.
How many times do I change the oil before I start it? Just once or several times to clean out the dirty oil? Do I need to change the oil filter the same number of times too?
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How many times do I change the oil before I start it? Just once or several times to clean out the dirty oil? Do I need to change the oil filter the same number of times too?
Just change the oil once. Then run the motor for a few
miles on the new oil (~100), then change the oil and filter
again. I would use something like Delo 400 as the flush
oil, it pretty cheap but still very good oil.
--John
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OK so if the car has been sitting that close to the coast for 3 years and still has basically no rust on the body that get's exposed to the elements, then I can't see any need to pull the head.
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Yeah, I was hoping I wouldn't have to open the engine unless I really needed to.
I really appreciate all the good information.
I know the front shocks are shot. I'm guessing the rears are shot too.
Do you think the CV joints are shot also?
Do the wheel bearings need to be repacked?
Or should I just try to drive it off and see what creaks and groans?
Thanks again.
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i'd be more concerned with properly preparing the engine for its first start in 3 yrs... once its running and sounds healthy, then yes, i agree with driving off and replacing whatever is causing problems... just make sure you have solid brakes and look over the brake lines for any heavy corrosion that's ready to pop.
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Yeah, I was hoping I wouldn't have to open the engine unless I really needed to.
I really appreciate all the good information.
I know the front shocks are shot. I'm guessing the rears are shot too.
Do you think the CV joints are shot also?
Do the wheel bearings need to be repacked?
Or should I just try to drive it off and see what creaks and groans?
Thanks again.
Re: taking the head off to see if the cylinders are rusted: I once bought a 79 diesel rabbit that had been sitting in a field for about 5 years. It had a little tree growing up through the engine compartment and out through the partially open hood. It had grass coming up where the driver's side floor used to be. The tires were so sunk into the mud that I couldn't see the bottoms of them. The back brakes were seized in place due to whoever parked it setting the handbrake when they left it there. The battery was completely dead and wouldn't accept a charge. I put a new battery in it, checked for diesel fuel and oil, glowed it a couple times, and turned the key. Would you believe the crazy thing started right up? That is exactly what happened. I had to replace the clutch when it started slipping badly on a hill I was climbing (didn't burn it out thankfully), and the fuel tank had a hole in it the size of a balled fist, but other than that, and the grime and slime on the interior from sitting for five years, it was a great little car and lasted me for a long time.
One thing I would suggest you do, as soon as you're able, would be to replace the timing belt. You have no idea how many miles it has on it and if it breaks, it will destroy your engine. I didn't replace the oil before I started my 79 diesel but that is definately a good idea as oil does break down if it sits for too long. RE: coolant, use whatever you like, brake fluid is DOT 4. Check the brake lines carefully for rust holes and leaks before you drive it at any speed, they tend to rust away on those cars. Check that the cooling fan is operational, the wiring deteriorates and the sensor gets covered in sludge, overheat her and you will need a new headgasket and maybe a new cylinder head, gasser wiring harness is pretty useless, you need one from a diesel, ummmm, what else is there to tell you, replace the fuel filter, it is the big oil filter type thing on the left side of the engine bay, other than those things you should be good to go. good luck with it.
Chris
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I was at a friends house, and with the motor hanging in the air, we primed the glow plugs, set power to the fuel solenoid, and ran power to the starter, after a little hessitation if fire right up an out came a nice think patch of black smoke. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Okay, I've been trying to get the wiring for this car fixed. Apparently, water leaked underneath to the dash and fried some of the wiring.
I pulled out the wiring harness that connects to the battery, the engine and all the sensors.
If you can see, just click on the picture to make it bigger, I rewired the black plug left of the steering column. Pin number 5 was severely burnt.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i92/cleoo_2006/th_UnderDashWiring.jpg) (http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i92/cleoo_2006/UnderDashWiring.jpg)
Did I rewire it wrong?
Now when I connect the battery. The battery indicator and the seatbelt indicator light turns on and the radio turns on. Without the key inserted....
So, I don't know if the burnt glow plug relay is the cause of this "short"?
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soiunds like my car. it sat for a few years in some guys garage. it had bad engine. i got an engine out of a truck that sat for years in someone elses backyard. i got the truck running but it snapped a timing belt within 10 minutes.
dont worry about the brakes, power steering, etc for now. those items you can do later. just get the core motor running first. work on 1 thing at a time.
sence the harness is all messed up go to the auto parts store and buy new battery cables and terminals as well as a new battery. install these items. next attach a wire from the injection pump solenoid to the positive on the battery. then use jumper cables to energise the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds and have a friend jumper the starter on with a screwdriver. this should get the motor up and running reguardless of the rest of the cars wire harness condition.
dont run it long because the fan wont turn on in this state. also the timing belt may be weak. just run it a minute or 2 to clear things out a little or untill youre satisfied with the engines condition.
once you know the "core" motor is running and operating good then move onto other things like changing the oil, the wire harness, brakes, power steering, etc.
just get the core motor running first. thats the most important thing.
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Trying to picture this:
A thick gauge wire? Or 14 gauge wire from the Positive Battery post to the injection pump solenoid (is there more than one wire?)
Now, I just need just one of the jumper cables (RED) to attach from the Positive Battery post to the 1st glow plug. After 15 seconds, then what? Move that jumper cable (RED) to the starter???
Now, how does my friend jumper the starter with a screwdriver :?: Is he touching the jumper cable (RED) to the solenoid too?
Kinda hard to visualize it.
Also, I just wanted to see if the timing was right on the engine block. What I did (might have been the wrong thing...LMK) was get a socket to attach to the cam bolt and turn clockwise. It was moving but then got really tight, I think I heard a metallic tick (did I break anything?). Well, I turned it the other way (counterclockwise) and it was slightly easier to turn. Then I turned it back clockwise and then it tightened again.
I have no clue what I'm doing. I just want to make sure the timing was right before I start the engine with your directions. I couldn't get to the crank bolt, that's why I turned the camshaft bolt.
Did I harm anything by doing what I did?
How, hard would I have had to wrench down on the cam bolt to break anything. I think I just applied about 15 pounds of pressure when it began to tighten.
Is it suppose to tighten like that or keep cycling through continuosly?
When a normal running engine stops...does it automatically stop at TDC??? I'm assuming it doesn't.
Is there an easy way to set timing with just simple tools like a socket wrench and screwdriver???
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when you turn the engine over by hand you should do it via the crankshaft bolt. i wouldnt do it via the cam bolt.
just turn it over via the crank untill its at top dead centre. you can tell this by looking in the hole in the top of the bellhousing. theres usually a little plastic plug in the hole that you need to remove first. inside the hole is a little pointer and it must align with a cast in mark on the flywheel.
once the crank is at top dead centre check the injection pump pulley. theres a mark on the driver side of the sprocket that aligns up with a mark on the top of the injection pump bracket.
finally remove the cam cover and make sure the first 2 cam lobes from the cam pulley are facing upwards at roughly a 10 oclock and 2 oclock position. theres a OFFSET slot on the far end of the camshaft that should be on the same plane as the top of the cylinder head.
if all these items lign up then you can be reasonably sure the engine is roughly in time. atleast timed good enough to run without damaging anything. if the injection pump and cam are 180 degrees out, then thrn the engone over 1 more revolution and try again. these things only lign up every other revolution.
as far as jumpering the starter with a screwdriver, you need to make contact with the main starter wire on the starter housing and then contact with the starter solenoid's electrical tab. this energises the starter and will make the gear pop out and spin.
so you hold power to the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds, then while still powering the plugs, turn on the starter. all the while you should have power to the pump solenoid. you dont need thick wire for the pump, it doesnt take much power. if it starts, when it starts, keep power to the plugs for another 10-15 seconds and then cut the power to the glow plugs. if everything went well the engine should run on its own at this point.
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The crank bolt seems pretty difficult to get at from the top with the timing belt still in place. Do I need to turn it from underneath the car with jackstands?
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from underneith but it shouldn't require jackstands unless the car is really low or sunk into the earth.
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Been a bit difficult to tinker with the car since it is in another place.
Well, I was able to get underneath the car and handcrank the crankshaft in a clockwise motion. At first, the revolution seems to be going over a hump and then it turns easier and then it repeats. I did this several times and didn't felt any other resistance. Now, since I cranked it, do I have to re-align it to some factory setting or will it still start in whatever position I left it in?
I bought an Autozone 48-DL Duralast battery, which puts out 810 cold cranking amps for $59.99 w/exchange.
I put on the battery cables--I used the old ones.
Connected a jumper cable from the positive to the main glow plug.
Connected a wire from the positive to the only solenoid nut I could find. The Bentley calls it the stop solenoid. (I heard a click every time I connected it.)
Tripped the starter with a screwdriver. (I heard a click on it too each time I tripped it, but it didn't want to turn over.)
So, no luck, I'm thinking because the fusebox is missing the Fuel Pump Relay and has a burnt out Glow Plug Relay that that's the problem.
I'm ordering a fast glow relay...
We'll see how that goes...
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Don't order a fast glow, you probably have slow glows. Either way you don't need that now.
It sounds like you are doing everything correctly, and with this method there is no need for any other wiring.
There is no fuel pump relay, that is part of the glow plug relay on a rabbit diesel.
It sounds like the starter is not getting enough juice. Make sure it is in neutral. Clean up the connections on the battery and starter and then give it another try. If that doesn't work take booster cables and hook the positive up to the + on the starter and the negative to a bolt head on the tranny directly from the battery.
To make your life easier for now just do this
Hook up the battery to the cables. Run a wire to the solenoid on top of the starter. It should have a wire already connected to it. Just pull that connector off and put the jumper wire to that. Note the thickness of the wire you are removing, you'll want to use one of about the same thickness. This step is just elimating the screwdriver. If you prefer you can continue to use the screwdriver method.
This will get the starter to turn over, but it won't start the car. Once you can get the starter to crank then connect power to the stop solenoid and the glow plugs as previously described.
As for that hard spot you were describing when turning the engine over by hand, it's probably a ridge in the cylinder walls from where the pistons sat for 3 years. It might also just be the cylinders compressing. Either way I wouldn't worry about it.