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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: zooky on May 13, 2006, 04:15:49 pm
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I've been searching, cant find a definate answer. I am rebuilding a 1.6 TD I had picked up cheap for my Samurai. Doing the research on rebuilding it, I kinda came to the conclusion that I dont want to "waste" it in the sami, its not street legal and dosent get driven much, just off road. I want to put it in something that I can daily drive, I commute 100 miles a day and can get some free jet fuel at work.
I was going to retire my '89 4wd Toyota, its getting tired and only gets like 15 MPG. Its stock with 31 inch tires. How would the 1.6 TD do in this truck? Curb weight is under 3000lbs I believe. If I knew it would be OK I would invest a little more in the rebuild like injector, govenor, turbo, intercooler, pump mods. Any guess what kind of highway speeds I could expect?
The 2wd Toyotas seem alot smaller/lighter but I already have the 4wd and would be better in the snow (I dont plan to lift it and take it off road), would this be a better choice for the TD?[/i]
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I've been searching, cant find a definate answer. I am rebuilding a 1.6 TD I had picked up cheap for my Samurai. Doing the research on rebuilding it, I kinda came to the conclusion that I dont want to "waste" it in the sami, its not street legal and dosent get driven much, just off road. I want to put it in something that I can daily drive, I commute 100 miles a day and can get some free jet fuel at work.
I was going to retire my '89 4wd Toyota, its getting tired and only gets like 15 MPG. Its stock with 31 inch tires. How would the 1.6 TD do in this truck? Curb weight is under 3000lbs I believe. If I knew it would be OK I would invest a little more in the rebuild like injector, govenor, turbo, intercooler, pump mods. Any guess what kind of highway speeds I could expect?
The 2wd Toyotas seem alot smaller/lighter but I already have the 4wd and would be better in the snow (I dont plan to lift it and take it off road), would this be a better choice for the TD?[/i]
Jet Fuel? :twisted:
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Yeah Zooky, what's with the jet fuel?
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At just about any airport that services jets or turboprop aircraft there is a bunch of surplus jet fuel kicking around. During the preflight check a few gallons of fuel are drained from each sump in an aircrafts tanks to check for water or other contamination. This fuel cannot be used again in an aircraft so it is normally hauled of for recycling or disposal. At most airports there are a few intrepid mechanics or support personel that are running diesels on this sump fuel. This practice saves the airline the disposal costs and the diesel driver gets free fuel.
Jet A is just a good grade of kerosene and will run fine in a diesel. It's a bit "dry" but the addition of some oil (something ashless, like 2 cycle oil is best) will bring the lubricity up to usable levels.
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Moved to Non VW Group Diesel section.
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Don't do it, the truck will be way too slow! I have a Toyota 4X4 with the 2LT toyota turbo diesel, it has enough trouble getting out of its own way and it has 2.4L displacement, 1.6 would not have enough torque to get you moving...on the highway you could probably get enough boost to make it work, it is left hand turns in traffic, starting on a hill that would be deadly slow. Think Mercedes 126 body td with tired motor and the a/c on slow...
It would probably die a quick death in the truck, it would always be 100% throttle. Vanagon diesels seemed to last 100k miles non turbo, turbo ones would probably die a lot faster. (yes, I have a Vanagon diesel too, I know what slow is and I would never consider a 1.6td Vanagon either, 1.9 or better!).
Greg
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I have a 2.3 liter turbo in my mitsubishi truck, which is about the same size weight as the 4wd toyotas. It's got plenty of power -- but I've heard that the Isuzu's and rangers with the 2.2 liter non turbo are sort of sluggish. Although they handle weight well. Is the 2.4 liter toyota you are talking about the turbo or non-turbo. I imagine the turbo one would be pretty good, but I've heard that that 2.2 nonturbo toyotas are basically never able to be taken on the highway..... Personally I think more low end torque would be good in a truck (probably why the 2.2 non turbos survive fine).
I was planning on putting a 1.6NA into a 1974 Mazda 1800 2wd pickup for a while --- that would have been slow..... But I bought the mitsubishi instead. Although if I need a second company truck, I still might try to find a 1.9IDI to put in the mazda.
Just put a little biodiesel in the jet fuel and the lubricity shoudl be fine. Or pour a bottle of canola oil in there from the grocery store -- if it's not more than a few percent, it shouldn't affect the viscosity enough to make the IP unhappy.
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My Toyota is turbo (2LT is turbo, L, 1L and 2L were non turbo). If it fine but I would not want anything slower. I can put a car behind it and it doesn't get much slower...it has torque!. The 2L non turbo diesels were great too, many around my parents house with 600k miles a local construction firm had a dozen of them on the road (still 6 left from 1984!)
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Check out www.pirate4x4.com - in the bulletain board section, under toyota pickups/4-runners, there was a guy that did the conversion. It was more for rock-crawling than daily-ddriving, but apparently the performance was pretty good.
I have had an 83 Toyota on 35" tires, living at 6500-8500ft altitude, with a stock, old 22R carbureted engine that made around 90-100 sea level hp, probably. A well-done, mildly modded 1.6TD or 1.9TD would likely make that much power, and more torque than an old 22R/RE, especially at altitude. Better mileage and off-raod performance are perks.
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Hmmm, may have to rethink this. The 4wd would probally be a dog, the 2wd is alot smaller, that may be a better option. I will have to do more research, maybe find a stock samurai. QuickTD hit the nail on the head, I am a intrepid mechanic at an airport, we are getting our own fuel farm and will have two 10,000 tanks to sump daily, being the company man that I am, I would hate to see the owner have to pay the disposal fees for perfectally good fuel...
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I just bought a 1981 longbed 2wd toyota pickup with the 1L engine in it -- 2.2L NA, rated at 72HP, and 105ft lbs I think. I'll let you know how slow it is... :wink: Actually, I don't really care. It's a diesel at least. It's got a perfect rust free body with shiny paint still, and will make a good run-around-town truck for the business.
On the swap issue, I've heard of people putting Mercedes 300TD or 240D engines in toyota 4wd pickups. Really heavy engine, but built incredibly solidly, and apparently a bit smoother running and more powerful (for the 300TD at least) than the 2LT.
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I'm working on it....
(http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=1547381)
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Nice work Zooky,That volvo IC looks like it was made for that truck.
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yea, its a pretty good fit, I also used the Volvo radiator and electric fan. Plumbing it is going to be a pain
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What tranny and adapter?
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http://www.acmeadapters.com/index.php?sound=Y
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been picking away, mostly 'behind the scenes' stuff. Most of the engine compartment stuff is done. Got the down pipe done, that was the tough part, need to finish the exhaust and a bunch of details...
sorry, cheap camera
(http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48503.0;attach=53608;image)
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looks good to me :) I have been considering swapping a 1.6 and a solid front axle into my t100. The motor is probably a little underpowered for my truck, but they offered the 22re when they came out. It wouldnt be hard to achieve the 4 cylinder's power level. My 6 cyl is supposed to have 190hp at 4800 and 220tq at 3600. So even those numbers are within the realm of possibility :) Have to finish the volvo first though. What are you using for intercooler tubing btw? Keep up the good work, these posts are what keep me motivated.
Dave M
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A friend is seriously considering this swap, too. Any more photos, or a writeup on problems encountered, etc? Looks great in the engine compartment. Keep up the good work!!
What are you going to do about speedo and tach connectivity? Please keep track of how the wiring works out - you're pioneering a trail for the rest of us...
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I have a write up here:
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content/topic,48503.0.html
The site I was hosting the pictures on shut down, the write up is not as interesting without the pics, I will have to see in I still have them. The swap was pretty strait forward, no suprises really. I got it started and it sounded sweet but I had a few issues, as can be expected. I think I got the bugs worked out but had a small fire at the house which put things on hold for a few weeks. I just need to reset the timing on everything then I can fire (no pun intended) it up again. I really cant wait to see how it drives. I am using the stock transmission, so the speedo drives off that. I am using the VW alternator so I can get a tach signal from that and a Dakoda Digital converter will drive the tach. The wiring was simple enough, I took notes but they may have been lost in the aftermath of the fire. I reused existing wires and removed most of what was left over after removing the stock motor. There is less wire clutter now. I also removed all the stock engine junk under the hood and relocated the battery to the bed.
There seems to be a growing interest in this swap, I cant wait to see more of them...
I'll keep this thread updated, I hope to be back in the garage in the next week or so. I havent wrenched in a few weeks, I'm going nuts :mrgreen:
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Great thread with lots of info. That sucks that all the linked pics got lost. If you have copies you could upload to photobucket or whatever and re-link (in all your spare time...). Had the same thing happen to me once. I had a great site with 15 pages of Thailand travel tips and photos - real off-the-beaten-path stuff from when I lived there - and the free hosting site shut down the same month that the work computer where all my files were stored got it's hard drive wiped. Live and learn: free webspace is worth every penny...
Hope that everything is OK after the fire, and I'm looking forward to updates when you get back to wrenching.
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ok, finally got around to working on it again. I replaced an injector I found seized up and retimed everything. I fired it up and now it runs good again! I got some work to finish up before I can take it for a spin, nothing major, just a bunch of little things. I did notice when it is in 'drive' with my foot on the brake there is alot of vibration, I am guessing this is due to the way I have my engine mounts set up so there isnt anything I can do about it. Maybe I will get lucky and it will smoothen out when the engine is broken in (doubt it though).
Once I am satisfied with the swap its on to phase II. I dont much care for the look of the 2wd toyotas, the longbed in particular. I need to 'toughen' it up. The diesel makes it sound manly so the 195/85r14's have to go! Not going to go nuts, want to keep it light. A 2" lift should make room for some 30's. I have a D44 with 4.56 gears which I think will be better suited for the diesel. May also go with a flat bed for a utility look.
Here is what it looks like:
http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?P=aac55c6c065bfb0aaf4d6279347c7883&action=dlattach;topic=48503.0;attach=61408;image
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the older diesels will vibrate pretty badly in automatic form and even not (i thought my '86TD was going to vibrate itself to death... but it held its own) that's why VW encorporated the E into the transmission which activated a clutch everytime the foot pedal was released. basically just makes it vibrate less.
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that sucks.
at least I know thats "normal", guess I'll have to pop it into nuetral at red lights :?
If I upgraded to a TDI-M would I still have that problem?
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that sucks.
at least I know thats "normal", guess I'll have to pop it into nuetral at red lights :?
If I upgraded to a TDI-M would I still have that problem?
maybe less... but the TDI-M's vibrate more than electronically controlled TDI's.
you could increase the idle speed a bit. that might help.
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I reduced the vibration a bit by making a few adjustments, I think I can reduce it more at the transmission mount, it vibrates alot there.
I just need to finish the exhaust then it will be drivable, the turbo whistle sounds nice without a muffler, but the exhaust noise is too loud. I have a flow-through muffler, it quiets the exhaust quite a bit but eliminates the whistle. Bummer.
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finally got it together enough to drive it around the neighborhood. I only put maybe 2 miles on it, I didnt have a chase vehicle to tow me home if I had a problem. First off, I'll say the performance is better than I thought it would be. Its a little slow off the line but once it gets rolling it accelerates pretty good. The accelerator response feels like the 22r I removed. I only got it up to 55 so I am not sure how it will berform above that, but so far I am happy.
Not sure if I am liking the automatic, The vibration in 'park' is what I would expect, but in gear (stopped) the vibration is unacceptable. Ive made it a little better but it is still too much. When driving, it downshifts too much and the RPM's shoot up. I can adjust that a bit with the kick-down cable. I need to get that under control so I dont over-rev the engine, if not it looks like a 5-speed conversion this winter.
More to come after I take it out for a longer drive...
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took the truck out for a good shake down run, put about 15 miles on it. Could only get up to 65 mph due to traffic conditions. I was able to get up to that speed and maintain it easy so I am sure I will be able to easily cruse on the highway at 70-75 like I hoped. The transmission still likes to downshift more then I think it should. The engine vibration at idle in gear is pretty bad, I think the toyota (passenger side) motor mount is the cause, I'll have to replace it, its to rigid. On a long hill I was @ 9psi and the EGT shot up to 1100*f. Does that mean I need more boost?
Just dropped it off to get the exhaust finished, cant wait to test it out more
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took the truck out for a good shake down run, put about 15 miles on it. Could only get up to 65 mph due to traffic conditions. I was able to get up to that speed and maintain it easy so I am sure I will be able to easily cruse on the highway at 70-75 like I hoped. The transmission still likes to downshift more then I think it should. The engine vibration at idle in gear is pretty bad, I think the toyota (passenger side) motor mount is the cause, I'll have to replace it, its to rigid. On a long hill I was @ 9psi and the EGT shot up to 1100*f. Does that mean I need more boost?
Just dropped it off to get the exhaust finished, cant wait to test it out more
1100 is ok, especially if it is pre-turbo. I would get up to 1200 post turbo before I moved the thermocouple. Now I will get up to 1400 pre, but it drops if I shift down.