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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: scopefrfd on May 09, 2006, 06:12:07 pm

Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 09, 2006, 06:12:07 pm
has anyone used the 1.7 diesel pistons.  I have the opportunity to get some and I wanted to get some feeedback.  

The 1.7 pistons brings the hp up to 57-58 very close to an eco-turbo diesel.  Basically turbo power with none of the associated problems/costs of a turbo diesel
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Kudagra on May 10, 2006, 04:06:40 pm
1.7?
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 10, 2006, 05:36:19 pm
yes, 80mm diesel pistons
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: tylernt on May 10, 2006, 06:05:45 pm
Where can you buy 1.7 pistons? Would be a nice power upgrade, assuming the 1.6 block can be safely bored out that far.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 10, 2006, 06:41:25 pm
the pistons are factory.........vw actually made a 1.7 L diesel in europe using the same 1.6L block.  The ones I can get are also moly coated....the only drawback is they are not notched for td engines.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: 935racer on May 10, 2006, 10:50:14 pm
80mm bore would be fine as far as  the block goes, and yes there are 80mm IDI pistons for the 1.9's but a factory 1.7? Haven't heard of that, what size is the wrist pin and whats the pin height on the piston? I highly doubt they are the same as the 1.6.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: HP on May 11, 2006, 05:14:58 am
I have no knowledge of a VW 1.7D either!
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Maarten on May 11, 2006, 07:05:50 am
I never heard of a VW 1.7 diesel in a passenger VW... I know the used a 1.7L engine in the transporter T3/T4, but I don't know if that is the same engine as the 1.6 (and the pistons can be used).
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 11, 2006, 05:56:34 pm
they came in T2's and is basically a 1.6 with larger bore pistons
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: lord_verminaard on May 12, 2006, 05:55:32 am
Engine code KY, and in my engine code catalog it is listed as a 1.8.  Naturally aspirated, 57 hp, from years 84 to 92.  Piston bore is 79.48mm.

:)

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 12, 2006, 06:39:39 am
I think it would be a great set of pistons for a td project.  Only problem is the pistons would have to be clearanced for the oil squitters in a td block.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: tylernt on May 12, 2006, 07:06:40 am
You should be able to do without squirters if you have the piston tops thermal coated.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 12, 2006, 08:32:42 am
The tops are already coated...but I don't know if it's a thermal barrier or a moly coating
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: tylernt on May 12, 2006, 09:02:21 am
I don't know if moly has any thermal properties, the stuff I'm thinking of is either ceramic or that fancy zirconium oxide (?) stuff, forget the exact name at the moment.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: 935racer on May 12, 2006, 04:53:15 pm
Hmmmm, so maybe its possible that that guy wasnt bull ***ting me after all. I was talkign to a guy that built a 1.7 about 10 years ago, he said he used some 1.9 pistons or some rods from a vw marine engine that made his engien a 1.7, he knew he had 79.5mm pistons but he couldnt remember if he had to change the rods or not. I figured he was just yanking my chain but I know there was some cool vw marine stuff liek intake manifolds and stuff that were way better than what we have on our cars.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: 935racer on May 12, 2006, 05:05:41 pm
Just made some calls, I cant find any sources for these pistons on this side of the pond. Anyone know where I coudl find a set? I would love to see if the pin height and pin size is the same as the 1.6, and if it isn't I'd like to know what the stroke, and crank journal size is along with rod length.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 13, 2006, 07:09:36 am
What  I like about the pistons...is the 5-7extra hp on a n/a engine almost stock turbo power.  That's huge on a 1.6 n/a engine.  I would assume it's good for atleast an extra 7.5hp-15hp on a 1.6 td at the same boost levels.  In a lighter A1 or A2 chassis the engine should be very lively.  What's killing the deal is the dollar is going down daily vs the euro.  A dollar is worth less than $.80 as of friday.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2006, 09:00:23 am
You don't see many KY's out there to be honest, but yep it's true they are out there somewhere.
Im fairly sure they used the 1.7 in something else, Iltis I think but not 100%, quite sure the 1.7D isn't unique to the T3.
It is just a bigger 1.6, same manifolds etc, same piss poor performance!

Stuff from my website here...

http://194.242.159.246/brickyard/info/enginedata/dsl/KYdata.htm
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: 935racer on May 13, 2006, 09:07:18 am
Ok so they do have the same stroke, but the rods still could be completly unique to that engine and I would suspect they are. I am gonna go talk to this guy again about this 1.7, he said it was marine stuff he used cause his boss was into boats or something....
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Audi80 on May 13, 2006, 09:07:37 am
1,7 uses the same crank and connecting rods

pic (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/mattif/?action=view&current=Image33.jpg)
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: scopefrfd on May 13, 2006, 12:49:57 pm
Everything is the same as the 1.6D engines, except for the pistons and HG.  I'm definitely going to buy a set and try them out.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: tylernt on May 13, 2006, 01:57:58 pm
Quote from: scopefrfd
Everything is the same as the 1.6D engines, except for the pistons and HG.  I'm definitely going to buy a set and try them out.
Right on. You could be the first to start a popular trend, if they work.  8)
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2006, 05:11:03 pm
Im fairly sure that back in the day Simon Coopers "Sooty" golf drag car was a 1.7 TD, sure someone will correct me though.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: DieselsRcool on May 14, 2006, 07:14:57 pm
Sounds like a good way to save a bored out hard to find 1.6 TD block here in the States. Notching them for squirters is doable with an end mill.

I'll take a set for stock.  :D
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: vph on May 16, 2006, 07:34:33 pm
Look at the bottom of this page... Do you all suppose these are the pistons?

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/flat_hyperpiston.html
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: lord_verminaard on May 17, 2006, 05:39:54 am
Nope, wrong engine codes, those are gassers.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: wolfgang on June 14, 2006, 07:58:54 pm
one thing I noticed is that two other VW diesels have the same 79.5mm dimentions. the 90-160 hp 1.9 TDI 4 banger made in mexico, and the 70-90 hp 1.4 TDI 3 banger for the A2

The 1.4 has the specs:
Configuration
    Diesel 1422 cc (86 in³) inline three cylinder
Block
    bore * stroke 79.5 * 95.5, grey cast iron
Head
    2 valves, overhead camshaft, 18 to 19.5 compression ratio
Output
    51 kW (70 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 155 N·m between 1600 and 2800 rpm
    55 kW (75 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 195 N·m (144 ft·lbf) @ 2200 rpm
    59 kW (80 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 195 N·m @ 2200 rpm
    66 kW (90 hp) @ 4000 rpm, 230 N·m from 1900 to 2300 rpm
Applications
    Audi A2, VW Lupo, VW Polo, SEAT Arosa, SEAT Ibiza, SEAT Córdoba, Škoda Fabia

These are both TDI engines and we have an IDI setup.. So I'm asking, forgive the noob, but what is the difference between the IDI pistons and the TDI pistons?
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: tylernt on June 14, 2006, 08:07:50 pm
The IDI piston has a fairly flat top with two shallow "cloverleaf" indentations, as the combustion chamber is in the cylinder head. The TDI piston has a great big bucket hollowed out of the middle, which serves as the combustion chamber. The bucket also has a spike on the bottom and a little lip to encourage a donut-shaped swirl.
Title: 1.7 Diesel pistons
Post by: Kudagra on June 14, 2006, 08:38:11 pm
TDI  pistons usually (if not always) have a cup in them while IDIs are flat.

One thing I did notice is the pistons on a Kubota v1902 IDI  engines look the same  from the top other then alot larger bore. Ill check the other measurements on them just for chuckles.