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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: chrisg on March 03, 2019, 04:45:20 pm
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so long story short, I bought a complete AAZ, that sat around for 2 years. we got it running but it would stay running, or rev. and we found out it simply wouldn't pull fuel. it would pump what ever fuel was in the pump and make it run, but once the pump was empty it would die.
i took the pump off and brought it to a local shop that specializes in diesel pumps. they gave me an insane money figure to tear into the pump and possibly find the problem.
so i had the the old pump off a 1.6TD from the engine that was previously in the car. the old engine ran great, but wanted to upgrade. so i swapped the pump bracket off the 1,6 and got the pump mounted on. the belt timing is spot on, but I'm not sure yet of the dynamic timing. don't have access to a dial yet.
The engine starts are runs beautifully with the 1.6td pump on it, but as soon as i try to do a pull or go full throttle it cuts out and spits and sputters. it will rev right up, then just fall on its face. its also not producing much smoke either. on he old engine the thing was a soot factory, but now its barely making any smoke.
so far I've tried
-rotating the boost pin
-moving he pump forward on the dynamic timing
- turned the fuel screw in
-reset the springs on the throttle
-turned the screw in on the top of the LDA
-checked for leaks
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Have you changed or purged fuel filter recently? I would temporarily add a lift pump to verify good fuel supply - the injection BAR for 1.6TD is different than for 1.9TD - in theory mix matching pumps with injectors is not productive - I just bought a caddy with MK (1.6TD) motor and 1.6TD injectors but a 1.9TD pump and after i upped the BAR to 155 pressure by matching 1.6TD pump with injectors - that made a world of difference in power but I know my 1.9TD pump was worn as mentioned in recent post on here noticing it would lose power after warming up.
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Could I swap injectors from the 1.6 motor too?
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Yes - and the lines to the injectors as they are a bit different - people bend lines to fit but its best to use correct ones if available - the 1.9TD injectors are two stage and taller than 1.6TD - the output valves (look on back of high pressure distributor head) are longer thank the sorter ones of 1.6TD pumps
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So could that be my issue? The injectors are wrong? Because this pump worked great on the other motor
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You may have two issues here but I would at least match injectors with pump! Then double check static timing with dial indicator - (on ebay for $50) - make sure your crank is timed with cam using the chisel mark on flywheel verses the raised hash marks on either side of chisel mark:
https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Fuel-Injection-Timing-Indicator/dp/B01HP2B5TA/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=VW+dial+indicator+VE+diesel+pumps&qid=1551663003&s=gateway&sr=8-7-spell
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Belt timing is 100%. Flywheel is on the chisel, pump is lined with the pin, and the cam is lined up with the slot.
I’ll have access to a dial sometime this week, but I’ve moved the pump back and forth with no change. I figured at least moving it might yield some change in symptoms but alas same issue.
I’ll try the injectors tomorrow or the next and see what happens from there
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Guys, you are off on a tangent!
The problem of running the IP dry is number one problem, getting the IP and injectors to match is way second place.
ChrisG asks: So could that be my issue? The injectors are wrong? Because this pump worked great on the other motor.
The reason it worked great on the other engine is that the fuel delivery was not hampered. On the current setup you still have not fixed the delivery problem. Change the dang fuel filter!!!!
Check to see if it runs from lines in and out of a jar, bottle, pail if you wish. Just get it to keep running once the IP is full and it rolls over.
Once you get it to run then chase all the different injectors you want. It really doesn't matter much and the 130 bars in a 1.6 will be fine and will probably be quieter than the 155 that comes with the TDI pump.
Higher pressure on that IP will make more noise at the injectors it came with. The 130s will pop sooner so you have to compensate for that with timing. Getting it on a Dial indicator will set up a base mark for performance. Take that mark and run up and down with it by a few or more .1 mm and see what it sounds and runs like.
Old pumps, mix and match equipment and engine compression. All factors in the final determination. Hope it gets to "This thing runs great now", moment.
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The delivery issue was with the pump that came on the 1.9. The car in question is a mk2 that had a 1.6td in it that ran fine before. We swapped a 1.9 in it, and the pump attached to it wouldn’t draw fuel in, so exhausting ideas trying to feed it, we tore the pump off and brackets, and put the known to be good 1.6td pump on it. IDI stuff is getting scarce around our area so I’m working with what I have.
After getting the pump on, the car starts and will run at idle all day. And it’s even drivable. So it seems there’s nothing really wrong on the car side of things. But the moment you go full throttle it just cuts out it’ll rev up and the drop off.
My thinking, is that the little bit of displacement shouldn’t affect the car THAT bad with a different pump, so if the internals of the engine are similar, and the pump worked great previously, the only thing in the middle would be the injectors that might not be taking to the pump the same?
I’ll probably change the filter anyways just to rule it out, but it just seems like it’s such a specific point in the load or throttle that it cuts out
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Got clear fuel lines?
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Car doesn't need much fuel to idle but at full throttle you do need volume and I suspect that you are tapping out on that score because of a restriction at the filter. The pump would deliver to the injectors but the supply side is lacking.
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Well... I’m starting to lose hope.
New filter
Deleted water separator
1.6 injectors
Belt timing triple checked.
Moved the pump back and forth on the slots
Played with the max fuel
Reset the springs on the throttle. Made sure the boost pin is in correctly
There’s no leaks
https://youtu.be/YHcE6YETZwI
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Out bolt.