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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: westcoaster on September 17, 2016, 02:29:17 pm

Title: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: westcoaster on September 17, 2016, 02:29:17 pm

inquiring minds and all....

I have read where the older VW diesels could take a 10% mix of gasoline in the diesel. (assuming for cold weather operation)

would the 1.9 aaz be able to do the same?

I haven't found a NEED for it yet but what circumstance or condition would it make sense to mix gasoline with the diesel fuel?
Easier cold starts?

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: heywier427 on September 17, 2016, 05:22:44 pm

I mix a bit of old gas with my waste motor oil mix, but never with straight diesel.

Diesel 10,15,30 years ago was damn near oil.  Very slippery, and could be thinned out for easier starting/sheering.

Diesel now a days is almost gasoline!  It frickin evaporates.

I dont think its a good idea.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: ORCoaster on September 17, 2016, 10:32:35 pm

Back in the days when diesel was made from dinos it was much thicker so that is why there was a recommendation to thin it out for cold weather.  These days there is no need for that.  There is more of a need to thicken it so that the IP works like it was designed to on the thicker fuel.

Just creates more pressure if thicker fuel.  Add wax or ATF and it helps.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: srgtlord on September 18, 2016, 11:03:06 am

Eventually all diesel gels and the low sulphur crapola seems to gel quicker, somewhere around 32 degrees Fahrenheit, right at the freezing point of water.

That being said I've been mixing in 2 gallons of gasoline for every 8 gallons of diesel for the past 7 years  on my 1.6D as I have had the fuel gel issue multiple times. It's much cheaper than the diesel fuel additive crapola.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: westcoaster on September 18, 2016, 05:00:07 pm

Quote from: srgtlord on September 18, 2016, 11:03:06 am

Eventually all diesel gels and the low sulphur crapola seems to gel quicker, somewhere around 32 degrees Fahrenheit, right at the freezing point of water.

That being said I've been mixing in 2 gallons of gasoline for every 8 gallons of diesel for the past 7 years  on my 1.6D as I have had the fuel gel issue multiple times. It's much cheaper than the diesel fuel additive crapola.

Just for winter?
What temperatures? (below freezing)
Other than keeping your fuel from gelling, any other benefits or undesired consequences?

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: RabbitJockey on September 19, 2016, 06:40:10 am

it makes starting easier, you can also add kerosene for this, but if you add too much of either it will knock a lot.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: ORCoaster on September 19, 2016, 06:42:18 pm

sgtlord is running at the top end of the mix 20%  I would start with 1.5 gallons in the 10 gallon tank.  Mix it outside in a 5 gallon jug and pour it in. 

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: Rabbit79 on September 25, 2016, 09:55:22 pm

Having worked in the logging business for around 30 years now I can tell you a ton of horror stories about trying to get diesel engines to run in cold weather. I will, however, dispense with that and simply tell you that when we run into gelling problems and have to cut our fuel, we use stove oil. I can't say that I know the exact composition of it, but that's what they give us down at the bulk plant when we tell them we're having trouble with gelling.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: ORCoaster on September 26, 2016, 07:28:25 pm

Stove oil?   As in denatured alcohol?  Hmm not sure I have heard that one.  Going for a google search on stove oil.


Edits and interesting tiddy bits;

Off road Diesel #2 and Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil # 2 apparently differ only in the tax applied at the time of sale.

Both are dyed red. They differ from standard Road Diesel #2 in that road tax has been applied, no red dye has been added, and there is a specification regarding ash and/or sulphur content. In extremely cold climates, Standard Road Diesel #2 may be blended with Diesel #1 or Kerosene K-1 to assist with gelling problems resulting from the cold weather. Similar blending may occur on home heating oil / fuel oil based on your geographic region, anticipated temperatures, and overall climate.

Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil #4 and Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil #6 have a higher BTU content. This is normally accomplished by adding much heavier petroleum oil distillate similar to automotive motor oil to the formulation. This allows a furnace to burn less fuel, for each BTU of heat produced, as well as often times reducing the cost per gallon of fuel.   These types of Home Heating Oil / Fuel Oil should NOT be used in a Diesel Fueled Engine or Generator.

... not exactly sure what you mean by "stove oil" or "furnace oil", but it sounds like what we call kerosene & diesel (or fuel oil) here.
Back when I lived in a mobile home I burned kerosene in the oil burner. It was because the tank was outside and regular fuel oil would jell in the cold weather, and the kerosene wouldn't. That may be why you were told to burn the lighter grade oil. Kerosene may be more expensive, but a tank full of the jelled cheaper fuel oil isn't worth anything when it's cold and the burner won't run.

Hmmmm I was told buy my distributor, #2 fuel IS ULSD cut with kerosine to ensure cold weather performance........stove oil.

Oh, there is a lot of keyboard noise made over this topic..... Do a search on #2 fuel or ULSD.

Main difference is price due to different taxable uses and such. Sometimes die color varies also adding to the questions

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: Rabbit79 on September 26, 2016, 10:29:55 pm

Good research ORCoaster. Like I said before I don't really know what it is, I just know that's what they give us. We go in, say we're gelling, and they say we'll get you some stove oil. The key thing I guess is that it works. Maybe the nomenclature differs a little from place to place, but that's what they call it here. From your research it sounds like a guy could just by-pass that step and cut your fuel with kerosene. I can't say I've ever heard of anyone cutting their fuel with gasoline.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: ORCoaster on September 27, 2016, 01:27:38 pm

I am not 100% sure of the words but VW in the owners manual for the diesels mentions cutting the diesel with 2 gallons per 10 in the winter.  Not sure if they said gas or kerosene.  Might look in the Bentley too.  Front of that has some general care tips like oil this and check that.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: sokiu on October 04, 2016, 01:20:08 am

I dont think its a good idea.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: westcoaster on October 04, 2016, 07:12:24 pm

Quote from: sokiu on October 04, 2016, 01:20:08 am

I dont think its a good idea.

Perhaps it isn't as regular winter routine.
However when a fella is sitting miles from nowhere on a tank of diesel of questionable temperature range with the mercury falling fast, it doesn't matter if it's a good idea or not.
All that matters at that point is "the bush fix" that will pack me out of there in a reliable manor.

Your right, with a bit of forward planning a fella should have a can of antigel on hand, but that doesn't always happen... If tipping a couple liters of 50:1 chainsaw gas or straight generator gas into a 40L tank accomplishes the same thing and gets me out without catastrophic engine failure, why wouldn't I do it?
But if all I'll make it is 2Km down the road before it piles up in the ditch, then I had better pass....

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on October 05, 2016, 09:33:47 am

Quote from: sokiu on October 04, 2016, 01:20:08 am

I dont think its a good idea.

it was normal in the 70s to the 80s in well-below-freezing days, and esp nights to add enough gas for an anti-gel, but not enough to dilute diesel where it would other than wearing the inj pump, it would of course you know predetonate. in a pinch in can be a smart alternative, and keep you running, where otherwise your fuel would gel, getting you stuck, on a cold day. iirc it was 10% gas to a full tank, which is about 1 gal to a full tank, this is for the coldest days, and not all of us going a few miles south (and more)will see that cold, but a lesser mix is acceptable. anti-gel preferred. but on a really cold-below-freezing day(night), some gas before filling up, w/anti-gel can get you started up in the early morning.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: vanbcguy on October 06, 2016, 01:24:25 am

Fuel today has little to do with fuel from the '80s or even '90s. It is a much more refined product - the sulphur removal process is a whole other level of processing that old fuel never had. New fuel is much less likely to gel up on you; if you want to see what it'll do then follow Hagar's advice and toss a Mason jar of the fuel you're using in the freezer. If it gels up you know you need an additive. If not, you know you're good to go down to the temperature of your freezer.
 

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: Rabbit79 on October 06, 2016, 01:20:11 pm

Another thing to consider is that if you live in a cold weather area fuel suppliers will usually winterize their fuel. I know all the gas stations and bulk suppliers here where I live do it. Where a guy might run into trouble is if you travel from a warmer area, where they don't winterize, into a colder one. Just this past winter we had an early cold snap, down to about 20 below zero or so, and I went out to fire up the old Rabbit one morning and sure enough, she was gelled. I hadn't fueled it for quite some time and it still had summer diesel in the tank. I just let her sit for the week or so that the cold spell lasted (luckily I have other rigs I can drive), until it warmed up enough to where I could get her started and then got some winterized fuel in it, didn't have a problem the rest of the winter.

Title: Re: 10% gasoline mix?
Post by: westcoaster on October 12, 2016, 05:22:39 pm

I am fortunate that I am able to get fuel out of a card lock that posts it's diesel temperatures on the pump.
In the winter I am able to choose from a couple temperature ranges.


Really, the scenario I would typically run into is  where I have a tank of diesel I filled up early in the fall (summer fuel) and end up running in mid November where temperatures can be down to -14*c

Just enough to be iffy on that summer fuel....