VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: RunninWild on April 25, 2016, 02:43:54 pm
-
Hey guys I just grabbed an aaz. The seller says he bought it off a guy and has had it sitting for over 2 years. I'm unsure of how long it was sitting before then. Anyways the crank spins freely by hand. The timing belt is intact and there is no physically obvious damage. After squirting a bit of oil in the intake and spinning the crank (by hand) a few rotations I was starting to feel a bit of resistance on possibly 1 cylinder. Is it normal for the Engine to loose all compression when sitting for so long? I known the rings need oil to seal properly and I'm just worried I bought a dud. It's supposedly low mileage with only 180,000km on it.
-
Dud? Think where is that 23 to 1 compression going to come from if you can spin it by hand without resistance. You may have rings that could be worn or not flexing out to the cylinder walls. That is somewhat unlikely. I would be pulling the head and confirming the piston size, the cylinder diameter and the condition of those rings. There may also be valves that are not functioning well in the head. Only a pull apart will solve your unknowns.
-
I've done a bit of googling and I've found a few forum posts with similar stories. According to them the rings can get stuck in the pistons and after they get oiled they should start to seal again. I'm fairly skeptical but the one guy said he had 40+/-psi in each cylinder which went up to 120+/-psi and then up to 160+/-psi (was a gas engine).
I've torn off all the accessories off the Engine I'm not using as well as the turbo and exhaust manifold. Plan is to pour a bit of oil down the valves and turn it over by hand a few times then let it soak in for a few days.
The guy I got it from seemed like a honest person and he said he had no reason to not trust the guy he got it from. I know that doesn't mean much but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I also noticed when spinning it by hand there was literally no resistance the first few rotations after a bit of oil got in it started building a bit of compression on the one cylinder and was enough that I could hear it leaking out the exhaust valve as I kept spinning it. I'm hoping for the best. The engine is clean enough for me to think it's not old enough to be completely worn. I'll try it out and if necessary I'll pull the head.
Can anything be told by pulling the oil pan? I can't afford a head gasket right now...
-
No not really.
Let's just say....that if you go visit either of the two previous owners....and you drop your pencil on the floor.....don't bother to pick it up...go buy another pencil.
You just got taken to the cleaners. If you weren't a mechanic last week......you will be soon. You will have to start from scratch. Or, less than scratch. Either way, it sure looks like you need to start from the crank--out.
Sorry....sugar-coating will do you no good.
-
So there is no way the Engine could dry out and temporarily loose compression from sitting for years?
Here is a forum post that kind of reinforces what the seller said. The guy I got it from is the head mechanic from bc hydro.http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1631083-E36-low-compression-after-sitting
Summary of the post
Short Version:
Car wouldn't start after sitting over the winter. Checked for fuel and spark but had low compression. Added small amount of oil to spark plug holes and compression improved and car started. What is wrong with my engine?
So, I was confident I had spark and fuel and proceeded to do a compression test. The compression test was performed with all of the plugs removed on a cold engine with the throttle body wide open. Here are the numbers from the front of the car to the rear:
55
35
30
66
57
45
I then added a quarter ounce of oil to each cylinder, ran another compression test and achieved the numbers below.
110
89
89
179
169
196
I did another compression test today after letting the engine warm up. The numbers look pretty good, so maybe all is well.
204
220
211
219
220
218
Buddy said he would give me my money back if it didn't work, I picked it up from his work and he has a job that he could probably get in some trouble if he was ripping people off out of their business. I doubt he would intentionally sell a scrap engine. Wether the previous owner before him ripped him off is another story.
Would you guys even bother going through the hassle of trying to install this or should I just bring it back to him?
-
Can the valves stick?
-
I just had another chance to play with the Engine. I poured a cap full of oil down each exhaust valve and rotated the crank about 20 times and it's gaining compression. The 1 cylinder Is at The point where I'm having a hard time even turning it with my 3/8 ratchet and the others all feel fairly comparable to my current 1.6. I think it just needs to be run a bit and lubed up. I'm going to install it and hope for the best
Also when I pulled the exhaust manifold I noticed one of the valves was wet with oil. Is that a valve stem seal issue? I have a new head I was planning on swapping in anyways just wanted to get on the road with this one before I went through the trouble of ripping it apart.
Also when i was spinning it by hand i was just turning the flywheel with 2 hands. I didn't clue into the amount of leverage I had on the crank spinning it like that.
-
From my experiences of nearly 40 years of working wrenches and engines I do know that putting oil in the cylinders increases the compression. I puts a coating on the cylinder walls and fills in some of the gap. Now will it make the rings loosen up and do their job? Hmmm, I don't think so, at least not in a reliable manner.
Why do I say that? Well the last engine I took apart was the 1.6L in my current 1981 Rabbit. It was becoming hard to start and the numbers were in the 280 to 300 range. Not really a problem on a summers day but 30 degrees and cloudy was a prayer and start number. So I pulled the head. I did have some rings in pieces but mostly they were stuck into the grooves and I really had a hard time getting them out. And this was on a running engine mind you. So in my life I have seen the diesels hold them real tight because of the carbon build up and then on a gasser they are stiffly in there but with a bit of lube they do get to freeing up.
The difference is in the pressure you need to fire effectively on the diesel and the type of burning going on in the cylinder. When you pull a spark plug and it is all black and nasty looking a simple brushing with a soft brass brush will generally clean them up. Try that on the bottom of the heat shield or the injector of a diesel. It won't touch it. You need to get a steel bristle brush and maybe even, Lord don't strike me here, a scraper on them.
So you can go through the time and energy to install the engine but I would fear doing more damage than good by firing it up and running some hardened carbon against the cylinder walls. That will surely bring a lack of compression to that cylinder. And if you don't think a solid piece of carbon will cut steel, well think of low grade diamonds. Or carbide.
My advice, don't do it. You may very well have a good engine so why mess it up. Yes, popping the top will cost a gasket and potentially new headbolts. You are talking less than 50 bucks! Are you willing to toast an engine two guys are telling you is fine for the lack of looking.
You asked about pulling the bottom off. Well You can at least get a look up under the pistons doing that. Skirt looking, check for existing lines and piston wobble at the bottom end. If the rings are stuck to the piston then you should be able to grab the rod and get the piston to wiggle in the cylinder. You won't be able to get much oil on those lower rings so perhaps oiling from the bottom might help.
That's what I would be doing. Is this engine on a bench or a stand? for the work you want to do you want an engine stand so you can get around it without having to fight with it.
-
I get what your saying but I don't think this is a carbon buildup issue from old age, but more of a 2+ years drying out in a heated garage issue.
How long do you think it would take for the oil I poured in the cylinders to leak past the rings? If I let it sit for a few days and it still has a lot of resistance would it be safe to assume it's good or that it's still wet compression? Or would it take a long time for it to drain?
If I pull the head how far would I have to get into this thing? Would I need to pull the pistons and inspect each ring or would a visual inspection of the cylinders be sufficient? I don't have a torque wrench or any measuring tools and I just got laid off and spending $300+ on tools at the moment isn't possible.
Also please keep in mind when I said it had no resistance I was turning the flywheel by hand. When i used a wrench on the crank it was a lot easier to feel resistance. Even when it was at the point of me pulling the wrench really hard to turn it I was able to spin the flywheel fairly easily. I think my original statement of it Having no resistance and no compression was wrong.
-
i don't think anyones accusing anything but this is the original ad, said engine feels like it has low compression, but was supposed to run when pulled, if you want to save a click.
http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,36289.0.html
it sounds like you might be getting lucky though with the oil, i'd try atf over oil because of the extra detergent quality
-
Ok, let's say the rings are just not doing their job. I would assume that they may have carbon build up on them from when the engine was running. Any idea on miles on the engine for an estimate?
If you pour oil from the top there is only one gap in the ring where it can get down to the next once the top ring is sealed. Not likely to happen as this was a running engine so the gap is probably filled up by now. Oil can run down the cylinder walls if all rings are not sealing in the first place. I really have no basis for guessing how fast the oil will take to leak to a lower position on the cylinder walls. Setting up the engine and pulling the oil pan would allow you to see or place some paper towels under each cylinder to see if oil was dripping out the bottom.
If you pulled the head you would be half way home. Pull the oil pan and release the pistons from the crank and you are 90 percent done. That will allow you to pull, inspect, measure and determine the need for new rings, new piston size and the potential for just honing or a full bore of the cylinders to meet the new piston diameter. If all you need is to clean the current pistons and hone the cylinders you only have to invest in a new set of rings. That is easy to afford, go Gotez rings. You can rent tools like the wrench, the hone, ring cleaner and the big problem would be timing the beast. I don't ever see those tools for rent. Who owns a 30 year old engine anyway? Well, we do! By rent I really mean borrow. Most auto places charge you for the tool and if you bring it back in time they refund all your money. So the use of the tools is free. They will make their money on the parts you buy. Unless you buy them from someone else. Which is what most of us do.
Ok, so it does have resistance when turning the crank with a wrench like normal. I think I would continue to use the flywheel as it is easier on the arms.
Hope that helps, and if you are laid off there is no reason to lay around. Get to work on looking at it. Generally I have time or money but neither at the same time. So, figure out what you need, the cost, where to get the parts cheapest and set yourself up for doing a little or all of it at one time. You don't need this engine tomorrow do you?
Good catch on the ATF. Penetrates better.
-
I'm just assuming this was the one I sold, I think mileage was around 220k and 40k on rebuilt head, as I was told by the person I got it from
-
Depending on how easily it turns,.. it sounds like the pistons hit the valves. Goes around real easy then, ha.
Maybe pull the valve cover and check out the lifters.
-
No that's not the Engine. I got it off of craigslist locally.
Was told it had 180,000km on it (somewhere around 100k miles). I was never informed of any low compression or issues with it other then it ran great when it was pulled according to the original seller.
When I say it's hard to turn now I'm fighting compression not valves. Once I get passed the peak of the resistance I hear a gushing noise from the exhaust valves and can see a bit of oil shooting out from where I poured it in.
I really think it's good. I'll pull the oil pan, because I was planning on replacing it with a new one (different drain location) and have a look up the cylinders and see if anything obvious stands out to me. But im going to go ahead and just swap it in this weekend. I really think I was overreacting and that it's fine.
There isn't a huge rush but my truck hasn't been on the road in almost a year and camping weather is approaching fast. I just want to drive it again 😢
-
thats funny the story matched up a lot with period that it sat and stuff with one i just sold about 2 weeks ago haha
-
RabbitJockey Will be replying to that new owner next week then.
-
Haha I hope not, I had him turn it over by hand and stuff before exchanging money so I think I'm safe, I also through in some other little things for the asking price
-
Well I've got it all stripped and cleaned.
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20160428_163220_zpspmiza9tc.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160428_163220_zpspmiza9tc.jpg.html)
I'm thinking I'm going to take your advice and just pull the head. I was planning on doing it in the future to put on my new head but might as well just do it now. I don't think I'm going to pull the pistons and I don't have any measuring tools but st least I'll get to inspect the cylinders for irregular wear.
Is it possible to measure piston protrusion with a standard magnet stand for the dial gauge of do you need a magnetic deck bridge?
-
If you can't figure a way to stabilize the gauge you can always use a set of feeler gauges and a straight edge. Just be sure your pistons are clean on top.
-
Well I put off pulling the head. I got the Engine in today. Just need to swap the harmonic balancer (one of the hex bolts stripped coming out 😈), fill the coolant, swap in the exhaust/intake and turbo, set the timing and prime the pump. Hopefully have it running tomorrow. This is taking a lot longer then expected. Figured I would get it done in a day, tomorrow is day number 3, not including the day I spent getting the engine ready to pull and cleaning the new one.
-
Ahh the rule to use- If you think it will take one day then multiply by 4. Same goes for hours estimate. Oh this is a one hour job. NOT... 4 hrs later. Sometimes it just takes that much time to do it right.
-
Yeah I wasn't as efficient as I could have been but wanted to have everything as clean as possible. Definitely going to have to pull my tranny and tcase in the future, they are caked in oil and grime. I really don't think my clutch is going to last very long so that'll give me a chance to get that sorted. Axles will be cleaned when I put in my lift in the next few weeks. After 2 years my samurai is getting very close to what I always wanted for it 😊
-
Well the good news is It fired right up after I primed the fuel system. The bad news is I have a massive oil leak, I don't think my oil cooler is seated properly, and the real kick in the nuts is I have crank wobble 😢.
For a shop to fix the sprocket does the crank shaft need to be removed from the engine? If not how much room would a shop need to do the repair? I'm pretty sure if the Engine mounts were undone, then lift the engine a few inches and my bumper was taken off there would be a straight shot at the crank. Is this good enough or am I going to have to pull this *** again 😭
Its just one thing after the other with this truck. At this rate I'm never going to be able to drive it.
If you guys scoll up and see the pic I posted you can see the access to the crank. Would appreciate anyone's opinion on this.
-
There are a few people who have made jigs to machine the crank nose in the car. Most machine shops probably won't do that for you though.... You can pull the crank without pulling the engine though you do of course have to remove the timing belt and transmission.
Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
-
I've been doing some research. I don't think mine is THAT bad as it's only wobbling a little. I think I'm going to get a new sprocket, have someone drill some holes in it, then use that is a jig to drill the crank and just dowel it. I'm only using v belts so I'm thinking dowels will be sufficient..
There's still a chance the harmonic balancer I installed is just sitting crooked (hopefully) but not very likely. I'm going to have a better look at it tomorrow and figure out the best plan for this.
-
Well I just called 1 machine shop and 2 "vw specialists".
The machine shop has never done the repair with the crank still in the engine. He said they have never dowelled it either. Which is odd because i talked to one of their machinists about a year ago who said he has done both repairs and never had an issue with either.
The first vw specialist said to strip it all and inspect the keyway. He suggested if it's not too badly damaged to just clean it up a bit with a file and just install a new sprocket and bolt and keep an eye on it.
The 2nd "specialist" is convinced its my harmonic balancer and the crank Is fine. According to him the keyway will never get damaged and that if it's wobbling the crank Is bent. When I tried to explain to him the issue of the keyway wearing out he said he's never seen it happen in a professional environment and the only way that could get damaged is from amatures mangling it and installing it improperly.
Think my plan is to inspect it, then dowel it if necessary.
Ugh according to the dealer there are no sprockets available in north America... Anyone know where to source one?
-
Pete Rothenbach lists this one for the stock keyed crank.
http://www.hansautoparts.com/028105263ECrankshaftGear.aspx
Some of his stuff has had quality issues in the past but if your going to pin it in place your probably OK with it.
I doweled my crank myself. If you drill the sprocket in a drill press you can use it as the drilling template for the crank. If you have enough room to get your drill in there you can do it in place. Just be sure to use cutting oil.
The 12 point bolt Febi p/n is 054 54051 280
-
I found one locally. Got a new belt as well.
If I Jack the Engine up I can have a straight shot with the drill. Is there an issue with using the holes as a template? Isn't there a chance they would get enlarged and the dowels won't fit snug?
I was thinking of getting the new and the original drilled and using the original as the template. Sadly I don't have a drill press. Hoping a machine shop won't charge a buttload to drill 8 holes...
What size dowels would you suggest I use? Was thinking of doing 3 or 4 dowels...
-
I used 3/16". Probably just use 2 pins. Probably wouldn't hurt to do a search to see what others have done.
-
I had the nose of my 1.6TD crank (stock CY code mechanical lifter engine) machined for the TDI style sprocket (P/N 038105263E, genuine VW OEM not chinese). It seems to be more beefy than 1.6TD stock keyway or small pins, etc. solutions. Got everything as clean as possible, blue loctited, a brand new 12point stretch bolt with the integrated washer, and torqued to 66 ft. lbs + about 1/3 turn more. Libbydiesel explained how to add the "D" shaped flat to the crank nose somewhere here I think...
Added a 90amp alternator, so went with the serp belt solution with a clutched alternator pulley. Probably overkill, but I didn't want to do all that work again...
-
The guys that have pinned them has been a long time ago. but the verdict is that 4 pins works. Less than that it really isn't doing much. 1 guy had the sprocket wobble eventually until he went with 4 pins. It might work with less but if you are there why not do it. I went with the TDI D sprocket and it works fine for me.
-
Thats for the input guys. 4 pins it is. Hopefully I'll have it done today and that oil leak sorted and be able to test drive!
-
So havnt fixed the crank yet just wanted to work out the other bugs before I rip it apart.
I'm having the same issue I had with my last engine in regards to it overheating.
It's like it doesn't have any coolant flow this just doesn't make any sense. The hose routing is about as good as I can get it. My routing is the exact same as this
http://acmeadapters.com/images/img_support_3a.jpg
Basically my upper rad hose is burning hot. If I have the rad fans off basically everything gets hot except for the hose coming out of the back of the head and the one from the heater core. If I turn the fans on the rad and lower hose get and rad get cold but the upper hose stays burning hot. My gauge was reading about 212f when I turned it off.
This makes no sense! I don't see how it could be an air bubble, and last time I played with this I ran a garden hose through every piece of the system and had no clogs. So same problem 2 engines. Its obviously something to do with my routing but I just don't get it.
-
that #4 line/connection, you have coolant flow thru this area? return from heater core, and expansion tank
-
I havnt pulled that line but pulling number 5 makes coolant come out. Its also hot between the oil cooler and the water pump.
Im going to try running without a thermostat tomorrow. I cracked the housing on mine and the parts store is closed.
Even if the thermostat is stuck shut (which I saw open in boiling water a few months ago) shouldn't I still be getting heat in the heater core?
-
It will over heat in 5 minutes of driving. The t stat works differently than you realize. If you pull it, it will have flow in every direction, it doesn't just "turn on" the radiator as soon as you pull it. Look at the t stat and all the hoses it should make sense to you.
I think I told you this months ago or maybe it was the last time a samurai conversion guy was having this issue. Jimfoo had a land rover with the same issue. He had to put a secondary t stat in line in one of his hoses. Search his name and posts you will find it eventually.
-
Basically my upper rad hose is burning hot. If I have the rad fans off basically everything gets hot except for the hose coming out of the back of the head and the one from the heater core.
hose coming out of side/back of head to heater core should be hot, this seems where to start. do you have heat when you turn heater on?(inside). do you have an expansion/reservoir tank? an over-flow line to tank, is reservoir tank set up properly, and you have flow out of tank? low point of reservoir needs to be at about the top of cyl head.
-
Yes everything is hooked up the way it should be. My resevior is at the top of the system and the overflow line from the rad to the res is hooked up.
When I disconnected the lines to my heater control valve blowing in the one going into the heater core caused coolant to came out of the back of the head, which to me means there is no resistance in that part of the system. There is no heat in the truck. I agree this is what I need to figure out and is most likely the cause of my issues. It makes sense that if this isn't heating up then the thermostat isn't getting fed hot water and is staying closed. I just don't understand why that part of the system isn't getting fed any hot coolant. I'll try bypassing my heater control valve again. The pump is spinning and the blades were firmly attached to the pulley before I installed the pump so I don't see how it can not be pumping any coolant...
I'll see if I can find that post about a secondary inline thermostat. This just doesn't make sense to me because this routing seems to work for everyone else with this swap... It just seems impossible for it to be happening...
-
problem with your radiator?
-
one thing to consider, the pump, ive seen the pulley come apart, in the inside. and seems to me it was similar situation. the separated pulley will spin,,somewhat. this can be because of a plastic pulley/impeller. or defective,
-
you may, thru thermo housing see if this is the case, light , screwdriver, etc. try to turn impeller while you know pulley wont turn,
-
The impeller was firmly attached and spun with the pulley.
I just installed a new water pump (pressed metal impeller type), new thermostat (drilled 1\8" for bleeding), thermostat housing, fixed the oil leak and now I'm warming it up. Fingers crossed.
Rad is practically new with no clogs
-
Same issue. Really don't know what to do at this point...
I'll talk to Jeff at acme and see what he thinks. But is last suggestion was to try it without the thermostat and that no matter what I should be getting heat in the truck.
-
I fixed it! Well I have heat in the truck at least. Now I have to rma my new alternator for the 2nd time as it's not making any power then I'm good for a test drive. I moved the tee for my resevior to the highest point in my system directly in front of the return from the heater core. Filled the system then loosened the inlet hose to the heater core with the engine on. A few bubbles came out then a steady stream of hot coolant. So turns out it was an air bubble this entire time! I'm so happy/angry lol gonna run it on straight water for now and once I'm happy my cooling issues are over I'll put coolant back in. I've spilled way too much coolant these past few days!
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20160506_144634_HDR_zpswbbfjmbl.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160506_144634_HDR_zpswbbfjmbl.jpg.html)
So the old sprocket looks to be fine and the keyway looks practically mint and after installing the new sprocket/bolt it's not wobbling anymore. I'm kinda puzzled on that one but it is what it is...
All that's left is to swap the alternator and install my new fuel filter and it'll be hopefully good to go.
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20160506_155926_zpscjeltbgv.jpg) (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20160506_155926_zpscjeltbgv.mp4)
-
Ok so my alternator isn't bad, I just bought a used one and I'm having the same problem.
With the engine on I'm getting like 12.4v at my battery. If I disconnect the positive lead I measure 14.4v coming from the alternator (new used one). As soon as I hook it back up it drops down to 12.4v again. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?
I have a gm 2 wire alternator. The ignighter I have looped back onto the 12v post and the 2nd wire I have hooked into my dash light.
-
If battery is bad you can get this.Try with some that is good you must have more than 13,7V.
-
Its a brand new battery. It's turning the starter quite well. The charge is starting to get low on it though.
Even if the battery is practically dead it should still put out over 13v at idle shouldn't it?
I think I just killed the used alternator I bought today. When I unhook the positive lead the engine dies instantly now. I new pulling the lead was hard on it but didn't expect it to *** the bed so easily lol.
I also just tried bypassing my factory harness and hooking the alternator up to the battery with jumper cables. With no luck. This just doesn't make sense...
-
What kind of ground condition do you have for the battery and the engine? Almost sounds like something amiss there or in the voltage regulator. I have a new regulator that I bought but then my son gave me a new alternator about the same time as it didn't fit his Dasher.
Send a PM if you want it.
Just need an address to send it to.
-
if battery is good, id start with the grounds, cleaning up grounds and adding more can help. also clean up pos side, maybe a new charging wire/or wires. taking off pos strap with motor running is a hard time for the alt. the charge has nowhere to go, as the battery also buffers the charge. id take off both red and black straps/harnesses, and clean everything up, i use electronic cleaner, with some wet or dry sandpaper, like 440 grit, a wire brush can do a lot, get a tig brush from a welding shop, get new washers and nuts/bolts for connections. i added grounds, 1 from trans top/main ground to top of alt, then one from alt top to fuel filter mount, good meaty connection. clean everything up, add more grounds cannt hurt, and the body ground at the strap too,
-
Even if the battery is practically dead it should still put out over 13v at idle shouldn't it?
motor off - 12v empty /12.7 full
motor on - 13.7 min
If one cell is short or something like it will ruin alternator,don`t ask how I know
-
I don't think the grounds are the issue. Both my battery clamps are new. I even tried hooking a jumper cable to the engine as an additional ground but didn't help either.
Thanks for the offer for the regulator but it's a gm alternator, I don't think the vw one would fit?
I've basically temporarily bypassed every part of my stock wiring in the system. Could it be possible both alternators are both defective in the same way? Like can they put out a charge but once there is a load (charging the battery) it just craps out?
-
Well the odds would be high on that but it is a possibility. Pulling the batt wire while running it a no no in my book. It isn't a welder and it needs for that juice being cranked out to have a home.
Not sure what to say at this point in time. Back to a known good alternator? Take the current on to the auto parts store and have them load it up and check it out. If it works on the bench then possibly you can take it back and get it to work in the car.
You have to make sure the alternator is sound and functioning, I guess that is my suggestion.
-
Yeah I think your right. Time to call a few places and see if any local places can test it.
-
Do you have the exciter wire hooked up to the alt?
-
Yeah the exciter is wired onto the 12v post on the back of the alternator which is wired up to the battery through the stock wiring harness.
-
Just had my battery and the alternator bench tested and they both came back good.
The alternator guy seemed to think it might be an issue with my wiring so I've made 100% sure it's correct.
Pin 1 is wired into the dash light. Key on engine off I get 0v there and the dash light comes on, key on engine on I get slightly less than battery voltage and the dash light turns off. This is what I should be seeing according to the alternator guy...
Pin 2 is wired back onto the 12v post on the back of the alternator I'm getting battery voltage there at all times.
This doesn't make any sense. How could the alternator work on a bench but not in my truck. I'm almost certain if I pull the positive lead it will show around 14v until the point I put it back in my battery. I'm not going to do that as I can't afford to kill this alternator...
-
again back to my grounding and wiring advice, running new &cleaning up grounds can help a lot. what i had stressed was motor to body ground, as well as other grounding. (&from batt teminal to body,2).
-
I just disconnected all my relays and accessories off of my battery terminal.
I also just took some heavy gauge jumper cables and hooked some temporary grounds with 2 on the engine, 1 on the body and 1 on the battery with no change in output. I also just removed the alty and grinded the chrome plating off the mounting surface.
Between my negative terminal and the housing on the alternator I have between 0.1 and 0.2ohm (it bounces back and forth depending where I measure)
Between my positive terminal and the 12v post I have 0.1ohm resistance. My cables are old and they should be replaced but I don't think they are the cause of the issue at this point.
I think the biggest clue is the alternator outputting 14.4v when it was disconnected from the battery. As soon as the lead was reconnected voltage dropped back to battery voltage. Anyone have any idea what would cause this? Its like some kind of feedback or interference is forcing the alternator to power off.
-
Are you just measuring the voltage going to the battery when the car is running at idle? How many accessories are you turning on. I have seen my alternator need to see a pretty heavy load at times to get it to start pumping up the voltage and amperage. I measure both one with a digital meter across the terminals and the amps with a clamp on style digital around the positive wire going to the battery. I start with the fan, low, med, then high. Any differences?
Then the lights, parking, low beamers then highs and then hold up on the lever to keep both on. I set the clamp on one so I can see it under the hoodline when it is raised up.
Maybe you will see it working as you start flipping stuff on and off. No do not flip off the alternator, you already know it is good so contain that frustration.
Give us some details on the voltage/amp changes. It might just be a regulator that needs to have more drawing on it to up the juice.
-
For the most part everything is off. At one time I had the rad fans on but that was about it. So far I've only been measuring voltage as I don't have an ammeter
I'm starting to think something is going on with my trucks wiring. Tomorrow I'm going to run a new cable from the alt to the starter and a fresh one from the starter to the battery. That way I can bypass the entire stock system once it's running without hurting the alt. If that works I think I'm going to try hooking things up one at a time until it cuts out again and hopefully be able to pinpoint what part of my system is causing issues.
-
Electronic Gremlins are the worst kind. Those need two bells hanging to get rid of them.
-
Yeah I have a feeling I'm going to end up having to replace 90% of my trucks wiring. Not looking forward to it 😢. Its 30 years old though so it's due for an upgrade.
-
so let me ask 1 basic thing, as you i think say use a gm alt? but for a vw you have exciter wire hooked up and 'idiot light' is on when you switch key on(at first), right, and light now goes out when you start motor, you may have to rev it up some to get light to go out.?.
-
No the light goes out as soon as the engine starts up.
I'm kind of on a new path of thought as I don't think the wiring would just suddenly cause an issue like this when I happened to swap the engine.
I'm currently running a single v belt between my crank, wp and alt. To clear the steering box the alt was relocated to the opposite side of the engine. Because of this the belt has limited contact on the crank.
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/attachments/suzuki-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-x/60537d1453419494-diesel-tracker-belt1.jpg this pic isn't my setup, it's actually of a serpentine belt setup but shows the lack of contact on the crank.
Do you think it's possible for the belt to be partially slipping from the load on the alternator but not make any obvious noises? I think this could explain how it puts out 14.4v disconnected from the battery when it has 0 load, but once it has to try and charge the battery the belt speed slows down causing the output to fail? I'm thinking it's making enough power to turn off the dash light but not enough to get above battery voltage.
Think I'm going to try and over tension the belt and see if it helps. I'm kind of thinking I would get a more obvious sign if the belt was slipping, either noise or some output at higher rpm
-
if a picture is worth a thousand words your pic's word is slippage, your running at about 1/2 min to 1/3 of what you need to drive that belt, and your alt has more drive needs than that water pump so its the one thats failing. the problem is right there at the crank pulley/ belt drive area.
-
Shouldn't it make noise though? I can physically see the alternator spinnng. I'm thinking it's acting more like a brake and causing the belt to slip on the crank. The belt is tensioned fairly well between the wp and the alt so it would make sense to be slipping on the small surface area of the crank.
Got held up So not at the truck just yet. Probably swing by in the next hour or 2. Really hoping its the cheap/easy fix. Upgrading to a serp setup wasn't my first choice but is Probably my best option if this is what is actually happening.
-
So tightening the belt did nothing.
Now I've got a new issue. When playing with the belt tension and the engine idling I noticed the truck was struggling to idle a bit and It eventually stalled. Start it back up and it dies again after a few seconds and I hear quite a bit of suction coming from the intake to the turbo. Its like it's starving for air or something.
I'm getting steam or oil vapour from the breather tube
So now it starts and dies almost instantly. Giving it throttle let's it go a slight amount longer then cuts out. Fuel lines look fine.
What the hell did I do to this thing now. I seriously am close to giving up on it.
Uploading a video as we speak
-
Omg I'm such an idiot! I ran it out of oil!
The good news is It starts and idles fine, smoke is gone and no more steam from the breather hose. I filled in 2.75 quarts and my dipstick is broken so I think it's reading low in the pan too! I guess the turbo wasn't getting any oil and the blades were spinning freely overboosting and learning out the engine. The bad news is how much damage did i just do to my poor engine and turbo 😢. I really shouldn't have nice things I'm such a tool. Hopefully the engine doesn't crap out in a few weeks now.
So turns out it was just the belt slipping. I had to get it practically as tight as I could make it and now it's putting out 13.8v. Such a dickaround! Just glad it's finally resolved.
Now I just need to deal with that oil leak and it should be good to drive.
Anyone know the part number or what vehicles i should look at to grab a serp pulley for the water pump?
-
I can only read and think, Dipstick. Get a new one and stop punishing this engine. The forum will love ya for it. Hope this finally works out for good. How many problems can one vehicle incur?
-
Haha I got the new dipstick as well as a new oil filter housing gasket. I have an inconsistent leak either in the housing or the oil cooler gasket. Sometimes it's fine other time it pours out. I though I had fixed it with the oil cooler gasket but I guess not. It just have dumped all the oil when I was messing with the alt yesterday. Will fix that tomorrow.
Yes this vehicle has been one headache after another. I hope I've worked through the majority of the problems and I can start putting more effort into tuning it and a lift kit and actually enjoying it!
-
how it puts out 14.4v disconnected from the battery when it has 0 load,
I hope that you turn on light,vent etc.
If didn`t you can ruin diode in alt.
-
Just did my first test drive.
What is operating temperature? While driving around it seemed to be hovering around 195-200f. The rad and the lower rad hose were staying cool at this point. I did have some steam coming from the hood though. Dunno if that's just crap burning off. Also curious what temperature I should have my fans turn on and off at? Its rush hour now, once it quiets down a bit I might do a highway run and see how it handles. Turbo lag sucks with the k24 though 😢
-
Sounds like you have an 87 degree C stat in there. They are available from 60 to 92 degree range. So depending on where you are located you throw in a lower temp where it is hot and a higher one in where it is cold. That way you have heat sooner when you need it and cooling when you need it.
I run an 82 degree one myself.
On the fans I have on my Ford I have that relay set for about 170 as it is a 192 degree F stat. I like the fans to come on sooner than later as they cool the engine some then cycle off for awhile.
Kind of depends on your driving route, traffic and climate. Sounds like you have city driving to do so I would be cycling fans on early when in traffic, Why have all that hot under the hood and at your feet? Once on the highway you are pumping air in there at a much higher rate so the fan may cycle on and off but with a longer interval.
Diesels do seem to like hot better than cold so remember that. Don't run them to cold.
-
They way it's setup now the fans come on at 180 so they are on practically the entire time. Once the temp gets up to 190-200f it doesn't really drop below that point despite the rad and lower hose being cool to the touch. I'm assuming this isn't normal behavior?
Right now it's running really good but my egt temps are high when I hammer the throttle so I need to dial back my fuel screw a bit until I can get an intercooler and up my boost. Also need a boost gauge as my maf sensor doesn't seem to be working with my engine management unit. How much boost would be sensible for a k24 without an intercooler?
My oil pressure switch also keeps tripping at idle once the engine is warmed up. If I increase the engine speed even slightly it turns off. Do I just need to up my idle or is this a cause for concern?
I still think I'm having overheating issues on long climbs on the highway. I was just taking a huge hill and my egt temps were through the roof at the coolant temp was getting pretty high when I heard a loud bang! First thought was I blew the engine but then I realized it was just one of my tires that exploded!
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/Message_1463106381952_zpsfaba3veo.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Message_1463106381952_zpsfaba3veo.jpg.html)
Lucky I was going up hill. If I was heading down I probably would have rolled the truck!
-
Sounds to me you need to drop down to a lower temp thermostat and then drop the fan on temp too. But first I would be flushing the rad and cooling system. It may be keeping the whole thing from working correctly.
I am starting to question the worthiness of this piece on the road. Maybe it shouldn't be there?
-
That was just a spare tire. I knew it was bad, I was only using it for the test drive and I was going to get my main tire repaired (leaking at the rim). Wasn't expecting it to blow up though. It didn't look THAT bad...
The truck is actually in good shape I've just been having bad luck with it. Never had any issues with it in the 2 years I daily drove it with the stock engine, other then it running rich anyways. It's definitely not a hazard for the road other then that tire lol (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20160512_171820_zpsy0kdtkgx.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160512_171820_zpsy0kdtkgx.jpg.html)
Just grabbed a 180f tstat will update later. Might have to go with that custom tstat that was suggested earlier.
-
That was just a spare tire. I knew it was bad, I was only using it for the test drive and I was going to get my main tire repaired (leaking at the rim).
WTF?? You knew that it was bad and went for a drive with it anyway? If you'd been killed, you would have deserved it. However, the other people on the road you could have killed DON'T deserve to die because you lack self-control and 'need' the instant gratification of a test drive. JEEZ. Maybe you should take it as a lesson and realize that next time you won't be so lucky. Get the crap fixed BEFORE the test drive... Learn the meaning of RESPONSIBILITY!
-
I knew the tread was low. There was no indication it would have blown like that. I have seen people driving much worse tires then that for much longer periods of time. I'm usually the first to tell people their tires need to be replaced. These still had tread they were just at the bars. It's not like the steel was poking through and they were completely half.
So it runs alot better with the 180f t stat. Temp usually hovers between 180-190f. Still gets pretty hot ripping up long steep hills and the rad gets heat soaked. Think I need to upgrade my fans and I should be gold.
-
You could have taken out a guy on a bike with that real easy, don't be an idiot.
Does your temp sending unit match your gauge and where is it located? If you don't have it in a stock VW location all info it records isn't all that helpful as it could be hotter or colder than what VW wanted. Rad fans are not usually needed at all with VW if the cooling system is working.
-
have you changed the belt setup? with that old v-belt setup you showed you may, like the alt, getting slippage, where its turning the water pump, and seemingly keeping it from over-heating, but like that air bubble you purged out of the system, that may be caused by the v-belt setup also. switching the thermo may be the key, its trail and error, but i think the water pump also is turning too slow and your not getting full water flow, so keep your eyes on that temp and dont let her over heat.
-
It's a lot better with the 180f t stat, never really gets above 180f- 190f except for long steep pulls on the highway. I currently have 2 of the old style 1 wire temp sensors on both flanges coming out of the head. My dash gauge reads high but my digital displays the same temp from both sensors so I feel it's fairly accurate.
I don't think the belt is slipping anymore as my alternator isn't cutting out at all. I don't think it's really related to flow as my rad is just getting heat soaked. At the top of the long hills where it was getting hot I pulled over and the rad was very hot to the touch, and the heat coming off the fans was baking hot. If it was due to coolant flow id expect the rad to stay cooler as the water would spend more time in it?
I've been having an issue with my gauge stops responding above 220f for water and 1400f for egt. The manufacturer of it is from south Africa and said they only use metric and it might be an issue with the conversion so I'm going to try and see if it's any different with metric.
Keep in mind my truck is about as aerodynamic as a brick wall so the engine is running a lot harder to pull it up a hill at 100km/h then it would be in a jetta or golf. I'm also learning to drive this engine better as well. Like it has the power to pull the hill in 5th but if I drop it to 4th the egt temps are quite a bit lower and it's working a lot easier.
I really think it is just related to my cheap ebay "1800cfm" slim rad fans. They move a decent amount of air but it's not near the amount of flow of a typical rad fan. I might try removing my shroud as well as it doesn't seem to have cooling issues in traffic, only long high speed pulls.
-
I wouldn't be for pulling the shroud. It acts like an adapter from the back of the radiator to the edge of the fan. It helps the fan pull air through the radiator and stops air from just sucking in from the sides and blowing out the back.
Could the fins of the radiator be damaged and closed off in some places? Sometimes junk gets lodged inbetween those thin fins and air can't get through em. Try spraying the radiator from the back with a good jet of water. Any black crap blowing out. That would be a good reason for pulling the shroud though. So you could back flush the whole thing.
Does your Samurai use the Dasher set up for a radiator? The one offset towards the drivers side of the engine bay?
I would say do drop is down a gear and run it a little faster RPM uphills. You don't want to bog it down too much and pour fuel to it that will just end up going out the exhaust and heating up.
-
I have a 26" rad from a vw quantum I think. It is practically new however the very top and bottom of the fins were damaged but the majority of it is in really good shape. I don't think the damage would be substantial enough to affect its performance substantially. I made my shroud. I know they help funnel the air but isn't that mainly in low speed situations like sitting in traffic? Cruising the highway at 100 I would think it would impede flow if anything? Thinking of upgrading to something like these
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-g4850/overview/
I was playing with my digital gauge and it has 2 options for the coolant sensor. The one makes it read low (around 160f when operating) and the other around 190f. I guess I need to find a heat gun and make sure I'm on the right setting. But 160f seems a bit low to me, probably wishful thinking)
-
I just bought a cheap ryobi infrared thermometer. No idea how accurate it is but according to it my gauge reads a little high. I was pulling 180f off the hose directly in front of my sensor (main line from side of head) while the gauge was reading around 190/192f. Don't have any long hills nearby to test it when it's running hot but I'll keep the gun handy and pull it out as necessary. Hopefully my gauge just reads 10-15f hot as that would keep me in a fairly decent range for temperature.
What temp is considered the point when I should shut the engine off and let it cool down? Or at least remove as much load as possible.
-
What kind of antifreeze you running and what is its boil over point. Depending on mix of water to freeze you may be well above 240. Mine is a 265 boil point. But if I was running 220 on my gauge I would be getting the load off or pulling over and letting the electric fans work a bit through the rad.
-
Didn't exactly measure but I got a gallon of the green stuff mixed with water. My system holds around 8l so it's pretty close to 50/50. Not sure what the pressure rating on my resevior cap is but it's from a vw as well.
So 220f is the point where I need to start being worried. That's good to know. So as long as I try and keep it below 210f on big hills I should be alright?
-
190 seems a little too hot though, 180 is safer.
-
190 is pretty cool really. The rad fan won't turn on till more like 200. The "middle" position on most VW temperature gauges is 195F.
Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
-
I have a digital fan controller. Any suggestions what temps I should have my fans turn on and off at vanbcguy? If 195f is operating temp I think I might be running a little cold if anything. According to the thermometer I'm running around 180f.
Going to upgrade my grounds today and hopefully get my temperature reading a bit more stable. Right now the reading spikes with a load on the electrical system.
-
Whatever temp thermo I throw in any of my engines I see a swing in temps that goes from plus to minus of about 10 degrees on my gauges. So if I was running with that 180 degree one I might see 190 on the gauge just before the thermo opened up. My sensor is on the top of the engine and thermostat being below gets hot later not sooner.
I don't worry much until I start seeing plus 30 over the stat temperature rating. I figure that is fair for extended hills, hot pavement and hard pulls. I saw that kind of increase as I was pulling a trailer across the State of Washington in 105 degree temps on those extended grades on the eastside of the state with A/C on. Once I got over the top, took my toes out of the engine bay, all cooled down to the stat range or even below in some cases.
-
Yeah I think I'm just worrying too much about it. Would like to get a fairly consisten reading from my gauge though. I just upgraded the power and grounds to my engine with new 4gauge wiring. 1 gound on a bell housing and 1 on the alternator mounting bolt. Reading is still off a bit. Will upgrade the body grounds when I get some more wire.
-
You'd be pretty safe having the fan turn on at 200. If you have a 2 speed fan they usually do like 200/210 for low/high speeds. No sense running it any more than you need to, just wears the fan motor out faster.
Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
-
Set the fans to come on at 195 and off at 180 and on a 45min drive on the highway it Never really went above 194f so I'm pretty happy with how it's running so far.
Now the latest part of this witches curse which is my engine swap. Some how my oil drain plug came out and I lost all of my oil. I was lucky that it happened like 3 houses away from where I work on it, also caught it before I lost all the oil and shut it off in time. To complicate things the threaded "nut" inside the pan somehow dislodged itself so I ended up having to pull the pan. I think my diff hit the plug and broke the nut loose and then it worked itself loose over time. Anyways i Plugged the stock hole and relocated the drain plug to a easier location to get at. Changed the baffle/gasket while I was in there.
I also swapped on my oil pressure sensor onto the back of the head. I'm worried my oil pressure is low. I'm running 15-40w (only oil the mehanic had) and at 100km/h I'm only getting like 9psi, at idle my gauge says 0psi! At high revs it's putting out around 22psi. What should I be seeing? I'm taking a wild guess that 0psi at idle isn't sufficient? I have a feeling my gauge reads a bit low as I need to raise the engine speed quite a bit to get 1psi. My old switch came on at hot idle but would turn off as soon as the rpm increased. So unless that switch was bad you would think I have some oil pressure at lower rpm.
-
RunninWild I think you need to change your handle. More like Runninitindaground, No clues on the oil plug thing. How that happened one can only speculate on and you did that.
Temps OK now.
Oil Pressure is very bad low. I could sell you about half of mine and still be running 50 psi when revved up. I think you have a problem with the regulator on the oil pump itself. The spring isn't pushing hard enough on the ball that is in there. If you have 0 -1 psi at idle you are seriously low. Have you checked the slop between the gears on the pump? Once it wears it just makes low pressure that makes more wear. It might just be time for a new oil pump.
Should I check my parts bin, MK1 stuff.
-
I didn't take the pump apart. Don't really know how they work either or how to properly inspect it. Might just look into buying a new one if they arnt super expensive. I think I have a spare or 2 laying around. Maybe I'll take them apart and see if I can figure it out. The gauge definitely reads low, but yeah it probably is due for a tune up or replacement if the pressure is low enough to kick the switch at idle...
What is ideal idle and cruise oil pressures at operating temp so I know for next time?
-
I like to see at least 20 psi at a hot idle and I want 60-70 at cruise. Right now with my current setup once it is warm I have 30 at hot idle and 65 at cruise, hot. Ford Ranger set about the same. These settings may be higher than most norms, I have had the pumps apart and may have tapped in the release pressure mechanisms farther than normal. But I am not going to back them off as I would rather have more pressure than less.
-
If you have a hydraulic TD and reading from the head port then 10 psi per 1,000 rpms is fine. Even down into the single digits at idle is no problem. 22 at high rpm is not enough nor is 0 at idle. You will toss a rod soon with those pressures.
-
Thanks for the info. I've done a bit of reading. Looks like I'm gonna just park the truck for now and put my car back on the road. Will put in a new pump, bushing and im shaft bearings when I get some more money to play with. I can't afford to mess this engine up and I'm just running into far too many problems right now.
-
Even down into the single digits at idle is no problem.
were talking hot idle oil pressure @the head, so lib i do believe your understating this, with 15w oil single digits @idle is real low, 0 is of course obvious, its -0- so its -0-. the head trip light(sensor) is what psi? i forget, about 1.3psi or maybe higher, but that is Wway too low. i with 5w30 syn with a good motor read 12-15psi hot(head). single digits(esp for a 15w) is getting dangerous.
-
The w number is the cold viscosity index and virtually irrelevant to hot pressure. The OTHER number is the hot viscosity index and the relevant number for hot pressure. I would not feel any concern about 6 psi at hot idle measured from the head with an Xw-40 or Xw-45 oil, provided at cruising RPMs it was the aforementioned 10psi/1000rpms (e.g. 30 @ 3000). His oil pressure obviously doesn't meet any minimum requirements and if he drives it like that, he is asking for a tossed rod.
-
It's parked for now. I found 2 oil pumps in my scrap pile. They've had water on them and have been sitting so they are probably garbage but will strip them down and clean them and see if maybe I can salvage 1 pump out of 3 garbage ones.
Could the pump have dried out and started to rust from sitting so long? Or is it likely I caused damage to it when I let it run out of oil?
Also found an Oil leak I think is coming from the front main seal or possibly even the im shaft (hard to pinpoint). Looks like I got a good 3-5 hours worth of work ahead of me anyways. Either way the project is on hold for a few weeks. I need to get an income before I can throw more money at this.
Is there a good chance new im shaft bearings and a new pump will fix the issue? Don't have any special tools to get at the rear im shaft bearing so am planning to only do the front Unless the rear is obviously damaged. From what i read the front is typically the only one that gets damaged anyways.
-
I like to see at least 20 psi at a hot idle. Right now with my current setup once it is warm I have 30 at hot idle and 65 at cruise, hot.
I would not feel any concern about 6 psi at hot idle - it was the aforementioned 10psi/1000rpms (e.g. 30 @ 3000).
not that i disagree, 6psi is runable, but is telling me things,, (using a 15w40), even with my 5w30 its real low for me. the 30@3000 is runable as far as im concerned. look at or hes talking 20 or more; 15w40 i believe. on the other hand 9psi for me is getting low, getting under 5 psi and you may find,,well thats just low.
-
Apples and oranges. If his sig is any indication, ORCoaster is running a 1.6 solid lifter non turbo engine. Those run considerably higher hot idle oil pressure because they are not feeding the lifters and turbo. There's an even bigger difference at cruising rpms where the oil jets are flowing. The TD engines also run considerably higher oil temperatures which lower the viscosity and consequently the oil pressure. You won't typically see 20 psi hot idle even on a 100% fresh rebuild or factory new hydraulic TD engine.
-
I am running a 1.6 solid lifter non turbo engine. Maybe I should just sell it to him and solve all his trouble. No wait, he is short on cash.
-
That would also be quite short on power 😛. Even with my giles pump and stock boost on the k24 I'm a bit underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong my top speed has increased probaby 30-40km/h and I have way more pull up hills and way less downshifting. Was just expecting more torque at very low rpms. I have some what of a dead spot between 1st and 2nd gear now when rolling at slow speeds. 2Nd gear doesnt have much pull when I'm rolling slightly too fast for the tranny to want to slip into first. Probably just need to up the fuel screw but then I need more boost and an intercooler to keep it cool.
-
Does anyone have a link to a guide on how to inspect the oil pump? Or can someone attach the page from the Bentley if there is one? Just took one of my "junk" pumps apart and it looks like I'll be able to clean it up nicely. Not sure what to look at in relation to how well it will work or not.
1 of them is a 36mm pump. It has some corrosion on the vanes and wear on the cap. I can feel the grooves worn into the cap with my finger. Is it worth wet sanding the vanes and polishing them up or is this just garbage as is? Spinning it by hand there is a slight amount of resistance on one set of teeth but in general spins smoothly.
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20160520_115922_zpsfvaoghf1.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160520_115922_zpsfvaoghf1.jpg.html)
-
I will see if I can photo the Bentley pages. Better yet I will just scan them. Can't be more than three.
Only needed to snap two and the other page was an explode of the entire engine. Not what you need.
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/20160520_190831_zpsh4euqtub.jpg)
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/20160520_190859_zpsl4jspapj.jpg)
-
The K24 doesn't spool till pretty late, if you aren't taking advantage of the 2500-4500 band you won't have much fun. It basically doesn't make any boost at all till around 1800 RPM and doesn't make any significant amount till 2200 or so. Ideally you have a gov mod (which you should already given you have a Giles pump) at which point you've got 2500-5500 to work with. Good times happen at high RPM. :)
-
Thanks for posting that orcoaster. I'll get some feeler gauges and measure it Out.
1 question I do have. If you are measuring axial play in relation to the deck of the housing then wouldn't the wear marks in the cap be an issue? I'm assuming from that alone I probably need a new pump? Both caps I have have ridges worn into them however the 30mm cap isn't as bad as the 36mm. They look the same so I'm assuming they are interchangeable. I'm guessing it wouldn't hurt to glue some sandpaper to a thick flat piece of steel and slide the cap back and forth until the ridges are gone like is done in those "resurface your head at home" videos on YouTube.
I think the plan is to track down a k14. High rpm isn't bad but the amount of boost it makes at highway speed isn't very useable. I'm thinking it would be better all around to be at max boost by 3500rpm +/-.
Is it worth even trying to modify the exhaust to fit the k04 I have or is that just way too small?
I think the end game is to get a holset but that probably won't happen until next summer.
-
Wear marks in the cap are an issue but I think you can pretty much get them out with oiled sandpaper ( 400 grit or higher) on glass or steel doing figure 8s with the pattern. That way your balanced with how you remove material. I use the same pattern for any type of fine removal of this sort. I did the exact thing to my pump and it was fine.
-
The K24 doesn't spool till pretty late, if you aren't taking advantage of the 2500-4500 band you won't have much fun. It basically doesn't make any boost at all till around 1800 RPM and doesn't make any significant amount till 2200 or so. Ideally you have a gov mod (which you should already given you have a Giles pump) at which point you've got 2500-5500 to work with. Good times happen at high RPM. :)
I had a k24 on my car for a while...
If you have a ported head, giles pump, and the k24 the k24 is TOO SMALL. I could make 10-15 psi in neutral with no load. I had a 3" downpipe and 3" all the way back, but 2.5" would be fine. Run a decent downpipe and it will start making boost off idle. It will not reach 24psi until about 2800 rpm but that is the deal here. The k24 is NOT a "big" turbo, running over stock boost it is almost already out of the efficiency on the map. They seem to take 20psi well but still it is an old design. The best thing you can do is take it to a rebuilder like xsboostturbochargers.com and have him rebuild it and put the 360 bearing in it. Mine had the traditional 270 and still would spool fine. The T3 that I had with the 360 bearing was at least 2x faster than the stock bearing at building boost and it will help the turbo live.
Just please stop saying the fault of the laggy boost is the k24's fault. It isn't. it is the downpipe mainly, then you need fuel and the ported head won't hurt.
-
Maybe my turbo is pooched then because I have a flange from the turbo going into a straight 2.5" pipe with only a resonator and it is very laggy. my exhaust only has 3 90 degree bends, I doubt there is much if any resitrictions. The downpipe literally comes straight out of the turbo then bends around the tranny and then down and out. My head isn't ported but I don't see how porting could lower the spool time that much. I don't have a working tach but it feels like the turbo doesn't really kick in until around 3500rpm. It does throw you back in the seat at that point though. Maybe I just need to up the boost. Is it worth playing with a mbc before I get a boost gauge, or is the exhaust temp enough information that I can adjust it safely?
Just called napa and a new oil pump is only $85, he didn't know if it's 36mm but that's a lot less then I was expecting. Now to just track down some im shaft bearings and a few seals.
-
You said "My head isn't ported but I don't see how porting could lower the spool time that much."
Granted it isn't as bad as the video but you get the idea...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEkWH8DB7b0
The 360 bearing does the most for spool time after the exhaust, but with head porting it reduces restriction and lets the heat out faster, which spools faster. Make a video of driving as I don't think you really know what is going on with this engine. A video might help. It could be as simple as your LDA spring is set so you are not getting the fuel until 7 psi. You don't have enough gauges to diagnose much. You really have a Pandora's box of questions from me every time you have another problem. Please, help me help you. It shouldn't be this bad.
-
Well I have a multi gauge that displays like everything it's just not very accurate from what I've seen and my map sensor doesn't work.
I have egt, oil pressure, oil temp, coolant temp, volt.
You're probably right about the lda spring, I believe the pump was built for 25psi so running stock boost isn't ideal. When i saw the boost really kicks in i get a big puff of black smoke from the exhaust as well. Its off the road for the moment. I'll post some videos when I get the oil pressure issue resolved and out insurance back on.
-
How does the turbo shaft spin with a 270 bearing and little to no oil?
Ans: Not very well.
Your oil pressure could be part of your lag issue, the shaft has to have oil to float and rotate well. If it doesn't you are killing that shaft and turbo as well as having poor boost.
-
I've been thinking and doing a bit more research of what I'm going to do with this. I don't want to get too involved in tearing the engine apart, but I think my best bet is to replace the main and im shaft bearings and inspect the pump without pulling the engine.
Does anyone know if there is an easy way to tell what size main bolts I would have short of pulling them and measuring? I believe it's a earlier model aaz and came with the older style injection pump. In assume I would have the shorter bolts then correct?
If I have the shorter 60mm bolts would studs be a safe option or is it still worth drilling and tapping to give the studs more meat to grab onto?
I've read a couple of times that the holes are drilled long enough most of the time and they just need to be tapped longer. Is that true? Is it even possible to drill them longer and tap them by hand without removing the engine?
I've also been thinking about my egt a bit. I took out my lda pin when I first got the pump and I remember it having a very agressive slope cut into it by giles. I believe my smoke issue under boost and the high temps are 100% caused by a lack of boost. At this point I either need a new stock pin (boring) or to get a functioning boost gauge, intercooler and crank it up! I believe the pump was made for around 25psi. Would a tdi intercooler be able to handle a lot of boost without blowing the end tanks? I don't have much room for an intercooler and I'm playing with the idea of a small tube style awic from eBay but I'm not sure how effective they are?
-
your lack of boost isn't a lack of fuel. you don't have the turbo spinning because you have no oil pressure. You are killing it by cobbling it together. Fix the oil pressure first then report back
-
Like I said before it's parked until I resolve the oil issue. I was also saying the boost issue is more related to too much fuel from the lda. I'm starting to think the "kick" I feel is the lda opening up as it happens the same time as a big puff of black smoke, and not so much the boost "kicking in".
-
the more fuel you have the more boost, but your turbo is not boosting because of oil, not lack of fuel.
-
Can anyone confirm the part number for the main studs? Are they the same as the alh studs? I've only found mention of 202-5401 and 202-5402 which are both listed for nissans. Dark side developments has it for alh and lists aaz as being compatible, but they don't list the part number and I would prefer to order locally.
-
No one knows the arp part number for the main studs?
I emailed arp and they don't have a listing for the aaz. Does anyone have any main bolts on hand they could grab some measurements for me? Arp gave me this form and they can see if they have any compatible kits...
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-06-02-09-26-57_zpstfaaomnu.png) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2016-06-02-09-26-57_zpstfaaomnu.png.html)
-
AAZ uses the same studs as the AHU/1Z; it's the same block.
-
Thanks! I was looking for alh studs but couldn't find a number either, didn't think to search for ahu.
http://arp-bolts.com/kits/ARPkit-detail.php?RecordID=1190 should be the correct kit then? Is there any issues with them if my engine originally had the shorter main bolts?
-
Oh good question. I really don't know for sure! The bolt holes are PROBABLY sufficiently deep - it's not like there's any significant difference in machining time to cut the threads all the way during manufacturing. If it were me I'd buy the studs and go for it - worst case is you can't use em and you need to sell them - essentially unused ARP stuff is worth 90% of its original retail price. I know I'm going to be looking for a set in not too long.
Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
-
So I can only find 30mm oil pumps locally. Partsplaceinc lists a aftermarket 36mm pump for $50 and an oem for $139. Anyone have any input on the quality of the aftermarket?
In case anyone was wondering "hans pries topran Germany" 100 310 756 or 028 115 105g pumps are 30mm