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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: RunninWild on November 01, 2015, 01:55:14 pm
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Figured I'd make a new thread as I've got the engine running now but trying to work out the bugs as it's running pretty bad.
Back story brand new aaz head on 1.6td block.
Used aaz pump supposedly fresh from a Giles tune.
Timing at 1.0mm
1.6td injectors they ran fine before I pulled the head but my socket couldn't quite grab the threads strong enough to get one of them out of the old head. I ended up using vice grips on the body of the injector and the 2 halves came apart. I simply screwed it back together without cleaning or anything so it's possible 1 injector isn't working properly. I did try some old untested aaz injectors and they ran even worse.
The problems:
Very poor throttle response literally no change in rpm below 1/2 throttle
Hard starting when cold with lots of white/grey smoke (probably due to lowered compression)
Coolant turned black on first startup. It was purple originally so could just be crud from cleaning the deck as it doesn't look like it's getting very oily and my oil isnt foamy.
Here's a video of it after a cold start (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20151101_102210_zps2ya494ck.jpg) (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151101_102210_zps2ya494ck.mp4)
If any of you diesel pro's can think of something I've missed I'd love to hear from you. Right now I'm thinking I bent a valve When trying to time it properly or the Giles pump is doa.
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I ended up using vice grips on the body of the injector and the 2 halves came apart. I simply screwed it back together without cleaning or anything so it's possible 1 injector isn't working properly.
Houston I think we might have a problem.....
I didn't get this description in the other thread and assumed you pulled all the injectors out and replaced them with a different set. This method of disassembling an injector may very well have dropped something into the needle valve area or, OR, you don't have it as tight as it needs to be and it isn't developing the needed pop to spray the fuel into the head.
You are really going to need to get that injector out and clean it out properly or just swap another in there and see what it does.
I have not experienced an IP producing proper pressure on three of four lines. Maybe if a check valve was bad perhaps that might reduce the line pressure. Usually it is the same process to produce the pressure on each line just at different times and only once it is out the back of the IP head is there a difference in lines or injectors.
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After swapping back in the 1.6td injectors it seems to be idling smoother. I think it is running on all cylinders now. Maybe one of my fuel lines was a bit loose before as it barely wanted to idle without the cold start pulled. I'm definitely going to try and track down a new set of aaz injectors, or have mine rebuilt.
Any suggestions on the lack of response from the pump? The previous owner thinks it might be something to do with the throttle setup on the pump being off slightly. It does rev fine once it's past the 1/2 way point so that could make sense.
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Do you have a way to test the compression? With the prior mention of tapping the valve with the piston I wonder if there is a problem with that cylinder properly building pressure. Since you swapped injectors that to me eliminates the possibility of injector trouble.
What kind of smoke are you dumping now?
I wouldn't think IP problem here. I think the lack of revs is connected to the fact that you are running on three cylinders not four and some thing is holding it back.
I dont know if I tapped a valve or not. I did play with the timing a lot though and anything is possible. It was running really bad with the aaz injectors. With them I had to have the throttle to the floor for it to idle, then I had to crank the fuel screw way in for it to idle normally and be able to rev. It was definitely only on 3 cylinders with the aaz injectors and it still only reved past 1/2 throttle as well.
Its idling much better since swapping back in the 1.6td injectors I'm thinking I may have originally had a leaking injector line or something. Does my video look like it's only on 3 cylinders to you? Smoke is white/grey but I havnt warmed it up fully to see if it goes away. It did on my original test drive when it was missing on the one cylinder so I'm thinking it will.
I really don't think the 1/2 throttle until it revs is an injector issue. Watch my video there is litterally no change under 1/2 throttle even if it's held. Its not like it's lagging it's just doing nothing. Pump adjustment seems likely to me but I really don't know anything about injection pumps.
I'm thinking if I can't get the throttle issue resolved I'll bring it to a shop next weekend and see if they can do a compression test/leakdown and if they have any suggestions on what I should try.
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check for air in inlet line, stumbling like that may be also air in pump/lines. that much throttle opening till you get response may be air, check 1st, or a problem with how the ip is set up.
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I don't think it's air. I only have a 1" section of clear hose but I don't notice any bubbles running threw it. I'm going to start driving it to work tomorrow (only 5 min away) so after I get some more miles on it I'll know for sure.
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Is the tiny section of clear line on the inlet of the pump or the outlet or between the injectors? Most of us use a clear section from filter to IP and I have clear lines on all the nipples of the injectors. Only place I don't have clear in on the outbolt and I wish I did. Then I would have complete knowledge of where the air comes in, routes around, and then out.
Given your situation I would try bumping the pump to the advanced direction, towards the engine to see what you get in the way of response. Timing is not always everything. Setup matters. I have started at spec from the decal on the fender and gone various ways and amounts until I found the best spot for me. I have gone the route of the photocell sensing the flash in the cylinder and watching the flywheel with a timing light. Then I measured the IP and it was much different than I would have expected but that is where it "RUNS" the best. Best Mileage, best performance and best for smooth at idle.
That is a give and take number by the way. I wouldn't recommend it for many others unless they were in a small city, with plenty of lights and you spent most of you commute in third.
Loosen those bolts and give it some twists when running and see if you don't pick up some idle and easier starting. IF it starts better with the Cold Start pulled you are advancing the pump.
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Any idea on how much the cold start advances the timing? I'll put some miles on it tomorrow and get a better feel for how it's running.
On my first test drive it was revving and pulling decently it just had a rough idle which seems to be better since I took the injectors in and out.
Is there a way to adjust the throttle mechanism? I understand timing is subjective and there's no one proper spot but I'm really thinking the internal throttle on the pump is out of adjustment. If it was just due to bad timing I'd expect stumbling or a lagging throttle or some kind of effect on how the engine runs. The fact that half of the throttle does nothing seems like it's not adding any fuel. I'd expect it to at least have some effect on the engine.
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I think the cold start only advances it a few degrees, 5-7 maybe. I would have to look it up but it isn't much.
For that throttle fix. When you look down from the top of the shaft that holds all the springs and clips and such on there are marks across that throttle shaft and on the lever. Draw a line across the shaft and the levers with a sharpie or something like that. After wiping if clean of course. Then disassemble the works. I use a smaller nosed pair of vice grip pliers to remove the springs. You just have to slip them off the tabs and then walk them back a bit to get them off.
Knowing that all is aligned as per the mark you want to pull the lever off without moving the shaft. Then turn the shaft Counter Clockwise a very little bit and place the lever back on the shaft. You should now see a difference on the line you drew previously. You only want to take the spline shaft one notch back at a time. Reassemble the springs and clips and stuff and see if that helps at all. That is the normal realignment process we tweak with when we forget to mark and reassemble that part in the first place.
Something to think about. And try.
You might search on user Libbydiesel for shaft alignment on this forum as I think he has a better write up some place.
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I think I get what your saying. Just to clarify the throttle plate that the cable attaches to is notched and the shaft is splined. I basically want to rotate the shaft ccw relative to the position of the plate. This in a way preloads the throttle, or in my case realigns it to it's original position. Instead of going 1 spline at a time then testing could I mark the position when the throttle starts to kick in and go with the corresponding spline. Or is it safer to just go 1 at a time?
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If the pump still has the yellow paint marks from Giles I wouldn't mess with it yet.
Make sure your injectors are 100% first, then play with timing. You might need a lot of advance. The cold start only effects timing at idle and slightly above so don't assume rotating the pump and using the cold start are the same thing.
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Ok so after getting somewhere with decent internet and watching your video I can tell you for sure that Giles goes not paint his pumps black like that. If you can convince Giles to paint your pump he paints it as 1 piece. Your throttle levers were obviously removed and then painted. It's very possible that the throttle shaft is off by a spline or 2.
The top spring comes off separate from the bottom 2 so go ahead and take that one off. There is nothing to mark, you just need to remember the order everything goes on and off in. Once you have the top spring off, you'll have to look inside a long 10mm nut, about 3/4" long. Inside of it is the throttle shaft and there is a line cut in the top of it. Put a dot or a line on the piece below the nut. You can't mark right beside the nut because that is a washer and is not indexed to the shaft. You need to put the mark outside of that washer. Loosen off the springs, loosen or remove the long nut, move the shaft over 1 spline, tighten the nut and then fire it up and see if it's better. Don't hook the springs up until you have it right.
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I'm with burn your money on the shaft being out. Have you done anything to the pump to get it to run or it's just like the previous owner clamed straight from performance diesel? Because I belive (correct me if I'm wrong) if the shaft is off a spline or two (depending on which way it rotated) you won't get your idle and hard starting if it would start at all actually?!
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You're definitely off with the accelerator lever to accelerator shaft alignment (there is no throttle plate). Your tracking is also way off. You will eventually chew up the belt running it that way. Any time you have had the bracket off the engine, you should always adjust the belt tracking before hooking everything else up (e.g. metal lines, accel cable, cold start, etc...).
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I painted the pump but I didn't take anything apart when I did. I knew the tracking wasn't perfect. I'll fix it when I get some time. I just want to try and get the thing running half decent first. Getting the throttle fixed would give me more motivation to dig deeper into the thing again. Honestly I'm getting tired of working on the thing in the poor weather and giving the neighbourhood a smoke show every time I introduce air into the fuel system.
The only thing I did to the pump was swap on the cold start mehanism from a 1.6td pump and play with the fuel screw. The one it came with was different and wasn't cable actuated
Is it possible Giles put it together out of alignment? I know he knows what he's doing but everyone makes mistakes... The throttle being off would make a bit more sense about the lack of top end power as well. Its not quite as quick as it was with the original pump and head.
But thanks for the help guys I really appreciate your taking the time to look at what's going on.
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How did you paint the accelerator levers and not the springs without removing them?
Working on a car when you are 'tired of working on it' is pretty much always the time when you make inefficient choices or mistakes that make you spend much more time working on the car. When I feel that way, I take a break, regroup, get my priorities sorted, and work on the big picture rather than the short term. In many years of working on cars I've found that gives the best end result.
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I used a small brush and paint that came with a caliper painting kit that I had left over. I didn't take it apart because I had no idea what I was doing and didn't want to mess it up. I'm not the kind of person to just rip into things. I like to have a good idea of what I'm getting into and have a plan on how to get it back together. As far as I'm concerned injection pumps run on magic and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing anything other then minor adjustments (lda/fuel screw) without a lot more research and new seals/parts on hand.
(http://www.autobarn.com/duplicolor/caliper%20kit/can_caliper.jpg)
Is what I used to paint it. I didn't take many close up pics because I didn't want to show off my overbrush marks.
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Just drove to work in it. High egt temps 750f (before engine was fully warmed up) up hills with white/blue smoke and it was low on power. So it's looking like I should advance the timing a bit see how that goes and then play with the throttle linkage.
Some good news for once though. My phone is saying it's only 2c outside and the truck started almost instantly. I know it's not really cold enough to tell but it's looking like compression is good!
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it seems your playing/adjusting other things than the fix, they can balance out some, but the throttle shaft would seem the place to start, or another problem in pump that comes up with a similar problem. perhaps when you painted the pump you clogged throttle shaft??just a guess; other than that, you may need a pro diesel shop to check, adjust pump, may be a quicker diagnosis, and less pain.
you say you have 1.00mm on the advance, that should be more than enough timing, and sounds right on,
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750F is not really high for EGTs on an uphill pull... But yeah, advance the timing some and see if the smoke clears up.
You were asking earlier if Giles might have put the accelerator lever on wrong - really not possible. When a pump shop assembles a pump they run it on their pump dyno to verify it is outputting the fuel that it is supposed to and they adjust things till it does. It isn't a 'just stick the accelerator lever on, it's probably right, ship the pump out the door' type of thing. I can guarantee that Giles calibrated the pump before it left his shop.
From your video the accelerator lever is DEFINITELY not in the right place, so I do not believe your pump was actually fresh from Giles when you bought it.
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I know 750f isn't very high but it wasn't a very steep hill and the truck was struggling to do 70km/h. So I think in that circumstance the temp was high and a sign of lack of combustion. Especially with the blue/white smoke I'm getting. I'm pretty sure I need to advance the timing a bit. The idle literally sounds like crap and like it's going to die with the cold start off. Its much smoother with it on. That video I posted was with the cold start on. I'll take another one tonight when I have it fully warmed up and hopefully it'll give a better indication of how it's running.
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I can't see a pump with the throttle lever on the wrong spline coming out of the shop. That's not one of those mistakes that make it through the test bench. Did it have a yellow paint dot on the top of the throttle assembly before you painted it?
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(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/IMG_2054_zpspkdkkolf.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/IMG_2054_zpspkdkkolf.jpg.html)
Seller send me that pic of what it looked like before he shipped it and I believe that's how it was when I received it. The only thing I did was swap the cold start mechanism the lea cap for one with a standard nipple fitting and painted it
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Could the lower compression from the AAZ head and using the 1.6 injectors be causing this? I know the AAZ injectors are 2 stage injectors and the AAZ injection pump has a totally different camplate in it?
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Went for a 10 min drive after work and let it get to temp. I've got a better idea of how it runs now.
Still a lot of white/blue smoke when idling but it's not that bad when driving.
Power is there and runs decently but feels like it's lacking a bit of top end thinking this is related to the throttle issue like it's only opening 80 or 90%
Starting is still a bit rough. It'll start fairly easily but it won't rev right away and will stumble and die occasionally. Takes a few tries before it'll rev and idle smooth. I also noticed some air bubbles on my line going into the pump so that could contribute to the starting issue. Maybe the injectors are getting some air bubbles in the lines from sitting?
I've got a different style of fuel filter I might try and install. This is the one I pulled with the engine A few months back and I never changed the filter.
I think the lack of power going up the hill this morning had to do with it not being fully warmed up and less of a timing issue. I don't think the timing is that off. I think I could advance it a bit but I think my smoke issue is unrelated. But I can give it a try if you guys think it might help?
So onto the smoke issue. What causes white/blue smoke? Obviously unburnt fuel but what would be the likely cause at this point? Injectors? If you guys suggest it I can bring it to a shop on the weekend and have them give it a compression/leak down test but I'd rather save the $100 at this point. It is starting in the cold fairly easily which is making me think the compression is good. I'm thinking all of my issues are related to fueling to be honest.
Kinda wish I never sold my 7 spare injectors 😡 that was a pretty dumb move not waiting until I had the engine together.
Anyways here's a vid of it warmed up showing the smoke and the effect the cold start has on it. If anything it sounds like the cold start made it run a bit worse.
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20151102_163541_zpsh0wddvio.jpg) (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151102_163541_zpsh0wddvio.mp4)
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What a smoke bomb!!! ;D
If I had that happening here my neighbors would run me out. Unless the mosquitoes were biting.
Heat shields, did you reform them or put new ones in after the exchange of the injectors. They need to be cupped to touch the bottom of the injectors and then they press to the head to make good contact.
Timing, I still say you have a timing issue. OR, OR!
You have injectors that have air in them at start up. Whether that is from the pump or the leak from those tiny hoses or something else.
The only time my engine smoked and lopped along like that is when I had a huge amount of air in the system. But a few good revs took care of it for me.
The way you have to twist that throttle to get it to rev up is totally unknown to me. I barely touch mine and it is on its way up. So maybe another notch on that spline?
Are you sure it is diesel burning there and you are not sucking oil from the intake manifold into the engine? When I had a bunch of blowby one time I would get oil pooling in the intake and when I would get to a high rev situation, drop to third and hammer it to get past some yahoo doing 62.3 in the passing zone. At about the point I would be cranking past them a burst of smoke would come pouring out the tail pipe almost as if I dumped something in the exhaust. As soon as I upshifted it would be gone.
Is this vacuum pump the diaphragm style? Is that pumping oil? Those have a tendency to do that.
That's my iders for the evening.
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No I didn't reform the heat shields I was going to order new ones could that add to the smoking? How do you reform them? They were new but I've obviously played with the injectors a few times and I cant source them locally. I don't remember for sure but I don't think the engine was smoking so bad after it warmed up on my original test drive before I started playing with the injectors.
Would leaking drain lines on the injectors cause problems? I don't think mine are leaking but the hose I got on them is quite a bit thicker rubber and I couldn't get them down all the way so they could have a slight leak. I'll order some better hose. That's the only fuel hose the local store had in that size.it could be air in the system but that video was after driving pretty hard on it and I'd expect any air to have been forced out by then.
I'll pull the (pcv?) line off the head and see if it's full of oil tomorrow. If it is venting a lot of oil does that mean the rings are toast? Could the issue be resolved by making a catch can and venting it to atmosphere?
Another symptom I didn't mention is when it's warm it doesn't shut off instantly when I turn off the key. It'll idle for a second or so. Could that be oil in the intake? I was under the impression a runaway makes it rev out of control and not just idle longer then expected. Blowby? My original gas engine did this in the car as well but it only did it when it would be reving really high. The carb was in really bad shape and it occasionally would idle at like 3000rpm and the shut off issue only happened when it was doing that so I doubt it's a reserve charge in the cutoff solenoid or anything like that.
I'll bring my timing tools to work and advance the timing a bit more and see how it runs. I hate working on it in my lot. I live above a store and it's a public parking lot and I always get people trying to talk to me about it.
The blueish tinge to the smoke has me worried. I did a bit of googling and that is from oil being burned. The engine didn't do that before I swapped the head. I don't see how the rings could have suddenly worn to the point of creating excessive blowby from swapping the head. Its not like I didn't clean/lubricate the cylinders and the head is brand new so I don't know how it would suddenly burn oil.
Anyone have any input on prothes injectors? I know most of his parts are scrap but some of his stuff has to be decent no?
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How were the cylinder walls when you swapped heads? Overheating can glaze them which could contribute to oil consumption.
I think the smoke is mainly going to be from the lower CR of your engine. I'm pretty sure smoke while cold is common on franken engines.
Did you swap the whole top piece of the LDA or just the nipple? If it was the top piece you swapper put the original one back on and give that a try.
When you pull the cold start out, does your idle increase? If not, manually increase the idle by moving the lever on the back of the pump on the LDA and then see if your throttle response is any better.
In the video it sounds like one of your cylinders isn't running right. That could be causing a lot of your issues.
The pump does look "factory fresh" in the picture you posted so I would be hesitant to change more than you already have before ruling out engine issues.
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Porte parts are garbage. There is no reason to expect anything else from any of his parts.
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It was the lda cap I swapped, not the entire lda assembly. The old one is gone so nothing to change it with. Are you thinking there is a boost leak or something in the cap?
Yeah the cold start slightly raises idle but it's more noticeable when it's cold. Maybe it's just the advancing timing making it run smoother causing it to idle higher? I tried to get the throttle apart today but I didn't have a torx set on me. It looks fairly straight forward on how to adjust it but I'm kind of worried about not getting all the springs back the way they are meant too. I hate spring loaded things as they are always a pain to put back together again!
Here's a pic of the cylinders. I don't have much experience but they looked alright. You could still see Crosshatching and there was no obvious signs of damage.(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/20151003_110624_HDR_zpsqduovzvq.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/20151003_110624_HDR_zpsqduovzvq.jpg.html)
Being that the one injector came apart should I just order a new set? New injectors are going to run something like $250ish. Where I'm at right now it's either low compression, too little advance on the timing or bad injectors that could be causing this correct? I'll try and advance the timing more as that is free. Getting a shop to check compression is probably going to run about $100. I'm on a limited budget at the moment and it's either a compression test or injectors on this coming paycheck. Thinking injectors might be a better idea as then they are completely ruled out and I'd get something out of it rather then just information?
Would 1.6td injectors on the aaz pump be contributing to the smoke?
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I was just about to go to sleep when I thought of something. Is there any difference in the amount of throw or anything between an aaz pump and a 1.6td pump throttle? When I installed this pump my throttle cable was super tight and holding the throttle open a bit. I had to adjust it at my pedal. I'm wondering if maybe how it was originally adjusted was proper and maybe the pump is pushing it too far back? I don't know if this is making any sense I'm tired lol. Does anyone else with an aaz pump have a preload on the throttle? But if that was the case then the idle screw would have no effect. It has to be off a tooth eh?
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How much did you screw in the fuel screw on the pump for it to run or you still running it like this? I think your trying to fix more things then you should at once. Do the linkage to shaft adjustment then put your fuel screw back where it was get your injectors fixed or calibrated. Sounds like your trying to make it run but not fixing any of the problems you know you have!
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Yeah I think your right I'm just stressing out and my head is all over the place. I'm going to play with the timing after work and I'll try and find some torx bits to get the throttle adjusted.
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I missed until now that you have an AAZ head on a 1.6. That is DEFINITELY a recipe for white smoke when the engine is cold due to low compression.
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Yeah but it still smokes when it's warm. Have a look at the 12nd video I posted that's when warmed up
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I really would suggest not messing with the pump until you are sure it's nothing else. This isn't an error that I can see making it out of the shop.
Where are you located? You can usually get injectors tested for free or like $10. I think a Giles rebuilt set is under $200 but it's been a few years since I've seen a price.
If the injector is dribbling fuel that will cause smoke, and serious engine damage as well.
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RunninWild, Take a deep breath. Exhale.
I would be looking at a local diesel shop to rebuild the injectors you have or as suggested have them pop tested. They all should spray out at the pressure written on the side of the body. Wild fluctuations between high and low are not good.
There are several threads within this forum that will adequately describe how to reform a heat shield for reuse. I use a ball bearing, a pair of vice grips and a sleeve out of my compression tester kit. How you would love to have that right about now.
The hoses on the nipples of the injectors returns the excess fuel, that's right not all of it gets delivered to the cylinder, to the outbolt and then to the fuel tank. Having good lines on them keeps the engine clean mostly. But you can see air passing between cylinders if the line is clean. Motorcycle fuel line can work on these and is probably available at a local shop, it is clear.
With the swap you have going, the potential for a headgasket being more than you need and the questionable timing here You just need to focus on one at a time to make it right and get it off the list of possibles. So, breathe in breathe out.
Just don't stand next to that running rig of yours. cough cough. :'(
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Yeah I think I'm going to order a set this weekend. I'll email Giles and see what he says I don't know if my aaz injectors are rebuildable as one of the nipples broke off and I welded it so it wouldn't leak but the 2nd nipple ended up leaking as well so it's probably garbage. Does he sell rebuilt injectors without a core?
I agree it's weird it would come out of his shop misadjusted but at the same time I don't get how it has 0 effect on the idle speed. Stumbling or choking or even stalling would mean something. The lack of any difference to me at least only makes sense being misadjusted as no extra fuel is being introduced.
But the battery was dead this morning 😡 so won't be able to play with it for a couple days until I can borrow a charger again
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Thanks orcoaster I think I needed that. I'm going to talk to my buddy and see if I can store it at his place then send my injectors off to get rebuilt. I live in whistler and there arnt any diesel specialist shops here and I can't see any of the normal shops having flow testers or even pop testers. The closest place would probably be in Vancouver but I'd have to drive there and I don't trust the truck to make a 2 hour trip in its current condition. Also the last time I looked into getting some injectors flow tested a shop in Vancouver wanted something stupid like $80 an injector or somewhere around there.
I'll email Giles now and see what he says about getting mine tested and rebuilt.
I'll also look into getting a compression tester from Amazon. Maybe I could do the old buy and return.
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Where are you located anyhow?
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Oh also - do you have power connected up to the timing lockout solenoid I see on your pump in the earlier pictures?
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Giles sells nipple replacements. I think we did it once while I worked there.
Idle is controlled by a different lever on the AAZ, not the throttle lever. I'm not saying that it's definitely not the throttle lever being off a spline, I'm just saying it's a pretty low chance since the pump does appear to be freshly rebuilt. There are a lot of more likely causes at this point and messing with the pump is just going to add more variables.
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I live in Whistler Vanbcguy. Your welcome to come for a visit and give some advice 😘. I have a brewery right across the street from my place and I'll buy the first round! Plus I'd love to see your crazy electronic controlled aaz.
No I havnt hooked that up yet. I now it won't advance the timing but at the moment I think I have more issues to deal with then dynamic timing advance. It actually doesn't run that bad it's just the smoke, starting issues and odd idle.
On the plus side I found some used aaz injectors that supposedly ran fine before the engine was pulled I'm going to be ordering on Friday. I also found a good deal on a compression tester at kmstools I'll also be ordering. Between the new injectors and the compression tester I should have a better idea of what's going on with it.
I'm going to park the truck in the back yard and hopefully do some work to it I've been putting off. Shackle lift, finish the exhaust and maybe have a go at replacing that oil pan (got a pretty bad leak at the moment). The weather is getting cold and I need to get that stuff sorted before the snow falls. Plus it'll give me a break from the engine headache.
I'm going to take a break on the engine until the injectors and compression tester get here. I agree with trying to minimise the variables and don't want to make it even harder to diagnose. I've emailed Giles I'll see if he gets back to me. If not I'll probably just go with the used injectors.
Should 1.6td have any problems with the aaz pump burn? I know they are single stage with different pop pressures and I'm wondering if that could effect anything?
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Ah, I could see the Shaw IP address so figured you weren't too far. Still a pretty long haul though.
You're correct, the advance lockout won't do much of anything at idle, though it definitely will cause issues at higher RPMs.
The AAZ pump should be fine on the 1.6, I believe Giles actually uses the AAZ camplate for his super pumps. Nothing wrong there.
Hey so do you have a picture of the cold start side of the pump? You said you changes something there?
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Sounds like you have a lot of $ laid out already but you can make a pop-tester using a porta-power relatively cheap and easily, not much more than the price quoted you for flow testing a single injector. Good for piece of mind, you know what you got and know when you have rebuilt the injector right. If you plan on keeping the diesel for a few many years and you can always sell the pop-tester when you no longer need it. 0.02
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(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20150425_140011_zpsmivsosoa.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150425_140011_zpsmivsosoa.jpg.html)
Is what it originally looked like. I just swapped the gear and the arm over from the other pump. When I was looking into it I believed the bottom mechanism controlled the timing advance and the top mechanism was for an idle increase. I didn't open the pump and I was pretty careful to keep everything in the same position.
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I've emailed Giles and he seems to think my issues are related to my timing and possibly the injectors. He doesn't think the throttle linkage is out of adjustment. He's suggesting to set the timing with the pin locked on the pump and not a dial gauge. The pin is set for .95mm which would retard it a bit but he's the man so I'll trust him and give it a try. Quote was a bit more then expected on the injectors so I'll give the used aaz ones a try while I save up to get them rebuilt.
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Yep, the top arm is the high/low idle speed control and the lower one is the cold start advance. So what do you have on there now exactly?
If you have the style of pump that uses a pin lock then yes, that's the right way to set it, at least initially. The pump hub would have been set by the builder with the correct timing. If it really is a Giles pump it will have lots of dynamic advance meaning the static timing generally gets set to the lower end of the spec.
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I have the normal 1.6td cod start mechanism installed now with the spring loaded arm connecting the idle and timing advance. Injectors will be here during the week and with a little luck it will hopefully run a lot better
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I just redid the timing again this time without the gauge putting the pin hole slightly to the advanced side on the pump. My new injectors still havnt arrived but it's working a lot better. Still smoked like crazy on startup but started a lot easier. Only took like 2 cranks to start after sitting for 2 weeks. Idle is better but still sounds a bit off. Smoke has almost completely cleared once warmed up but is still present.
Throttle issue still remains. I don't see how it could be anything other then a misadjusted linkage. Power still feels lacking a bit on the top end which I'm betting is related to the throttle issue.
Hoping the new injectors smooth out the idle a bit. Sounds like it has a thud noise every 4th pulse. Any input on that? Valves tapping the pistons? I'm pretty sure the timing is bang on this time. Check out the video and let me know what you guys think. (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/th_20151111_092416_zps9solh7oa.mp4) (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_092416_zps9solh7oa.mp4)
Here are some pics I took showing how I timed it.(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_090118_zpsfnkgwwam.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_090118_zpsfnkgwwam.jpg.html) (http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_084734_zpswzb4bikz.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_084734_zpswzb4bikz.jpg.html)(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_084722_zpsqugruqse.jpg) (http://s878.photobucket.com/user/mikeinaus/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151111_084722_zpsqugruqse.jpg.html)
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Decided to throw the old head back on with my new 2nd hand was injectors and new heat shields.
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up the injector socket that prothe sells for like $12 fits Aaz sockets perfectly and is actually pretty good quality. 12 point with an opening for the drain nipples to fit threw and looks to be hardened steel like impact sockets.
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Put the stock head back on today. I also reused the mls gaskets I drilled the rivers and copper sprayed on each layer of the gasket.
With the 1.6td head and the new used Aaz injectors I was able to get it started fairly easily and there wasn't a massive cloud of smoke this time. Throttle issue still remains so I don't think it could be anything other then a misadjusted linkage. I still need a valve cover gasket and to fill it with coolant so I didn't test drive it but It still sounds a bit off though. I dont think if I'm getting full compression on each cylinder. The starter sounds like it's cranking easier as well which isn't a good sign. I'm done for the day though I'll play with it a bit more during the week or maybe best weekend...
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I drilled the rivers ???? Ice fishing already?
Must be mighty cold in his parts, the rest of us are just getting snow or cold weather.
I would be looking at the throttle closely to see why you have that trouble with it. Compression test really might be next diagnostic to do.
Local auto parts store happen to have a loaner program for a diesel tester or just the regular gas type?
Depending on the store here you can find one that gets to the 500 range we are needing.
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and to fill it with coolant so I didn't test drive it
i hope you dont have it running for more than about 1min or 2 at most until you get coolant in it.
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Drilled the rivets* in the mls gasket.
Yeah I just started it up to see if it would start and how it idled and revved. Wasn't on for more then 30seconds.
I just moved it into the back yard so I won't have so much stress/pressure to get it going. I'm just hoping it doesn't get burried in snow before I can get all the bugs worked out. Its practically dark by the time I get home from work so I won't have a lot of time to work on it except for weekends.
First I need to modify the water pump housing by brazing a copper elbow onto it (reason I didn't fill coolant). Hopefully get that done before the weekend then I'll try advancing the timing. I also need to install my lift, put an exhaust on it and modify my alternator bracket to fit a new Gm 110amp alternator then wire the fans to be on all the time (fan controller I bought doesn't work). Then hopefully be able to drive is 50km so I can warranty my battery And not have to charge it every couple days.