VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: epowell on September 12, 2015, 06:30:33 am
-
Hi Everyone,
Edward here, I'm new...
I'm from Canada but living in the Czech Republic - and just bought a 1984 VW T3 CAMPERVAN :D
The seller, I think, was very honest - he had just put the original engine back in 3 weeks ago cuz he wanted the 1.9 for himself (and also it is illegal to sell a vehicle without the original type of engine in there). This van now has the original VW 1.6 TD engine.
- and he offered to knock a couple hundred bucks off the price because he admitted that the timing belt should be changed, and the FUEL PUMP should be adjusted for optimum performance.
I drove the van a bit and I must admit that the engine felt really good to me and would never have suspected something "off" in it.
My question is this: Does it take a specialist for VW VANS to accurately do this kind of adjustment, or are most good mechanics who work on diesels perfectly able to do this work? I ask because the seller recommended a specific mechanic (but that is a bit far away), and meanwhile in the small town I live in, there are PLENTY of mechanics...
Should I go to the VW specialist he recommended or is this something that most good diesel mechanics can easily handle?
THANKS!
-
Needs to be someone who is familiar with VW diesels. The timing belt process is nowhere close to gas VW's and most bigger diesels don't have timing belts, so you're best off finding a specialist.
-
sorry for my ignorance... but I guess the process of fine tuning, and adjusting the fuel pump is basically like "doing the timing" on the engine? ...is that like what on a gas engine would be the equivalent of doing the timing on the carb.?
I think that in VW T2s 1600 gas engines it was considered pretty easy for an amateur to do the timing. . . is this NOT the case with diesels and adjusting the fuel pump? NOT something easily learned and done at home?
-
It has no resemblance to gasser timing whatsoever. Things like "line up the marks" result in a non or poorly running engine if not a piston to valve collision.
The actual steps aren't magic, but you need a few specific tools including a dial gauge that can measure down to 0.01mm.
-
epowell, Timing a diesel engine is not hard to learn how to do. We all have done that at one time in our mechanic history. But what vanbcguy and others are trying to say is that if you don't know how, don't have the necessary tools, and don't have the guidebook (aka a Bentleys) then you are better off taking it to someone that can either do it right or teach you to do it right.
There are no little tiny marks that you flash with a light to align the pointer to like a gas engine. And the dial gauge that reads to the .01 measures is important when we are taking a difference between .88 and .93 mm. The amount of movement it takes to make the difference is very small.
Then the whole advance or retard thing comes into play. Just what part are you going to turn to change from one side of TDC to the other? You don't grab the distributor shaft but rather the injection pump because in effect that is the distributor. Note the four different lines out the back, one for each injector which does control the fuel delivery but that delivery is "timed" by the amount of pump offset compared to the TDC position.
Oh and least we forget there is alignment of the stars, them moon, and three different positions on the crank, cam and IP that make this all work. Any one of them get off and you may play heck getting it to run properly. I just had that kind of luck last weekend and spent 3 hrs struggling with the timing all because I wasn't paying attention to one part of the equation. All I wanted to do was take a wee bit of the tightness off the timing belt. A 20 min operation normally for me. Why the extra hours and minutes. Let's just say a certain pair of vise grips on the cam were out of position and it caused me difficulty.
So, to reiterate, timing a diesel IS NOT BASICALLY Doing the timing on a gasser. It is somewhat more involved and you need tools and skills. Get them and you are golden. Try it otherwise and you are smoked. Literally, look at the number of troubles on this forum where folks are complaining that they replaced the timing belt and now it smokes, won't start, etc.
The process can be learned at home but it should be the home of someone that has done it plenty of times in the past. Then you can take it to your house and do the same.
-
Thank you so much for these answers vanbcguy, and ORCoaster!! They are very very helpful.
I am really VERY serious about learning as much as I possibly can about fixing and maintaining VW T3s... the one that I just bought, I want it to be the last vehicle I ever own (kinda thing) and I want to be able to live way out in nature and be able to totally maintain my own vehicle - - - but yes this is a long way off.
Can you experienced guys suggest the best first steps to take towards this goal? What I am so far hearing is this:
1) get the best possible PRINTED MANUAL for this vehicle
2) have a garage to work in - and invest in proper tools
3) MOST IMPORTANTLY, find an experienced teacher...
4) Would it not be a bad idea to buy a cheap, almost scrap version of the same vehicle and use it to learn on rather than my 'baby'?
Any comments or advice much appreciated.
PS I do have 'some' experience already with mechanics, rebuilding things, repairing things, and I am a professional musical instrument maker - http://edwardpowell.com/EPI.php
-
the correct manual is the only one normally recommended, bentley, look for your year and model, should cover both gas, v6 or vr6, +diesel. &if there are more than one diesel/td model for that year. i have a red 84 manual,iirc. next you need tools, a vw takes mostly metric tools, best to start 5mm wrenches&sockets, up to 19mm, some are larger, some fit std sizes, so a full set of them is good, have small std sizes, like 1/4 is very useful. 8mm,10mm,13mm,17mm,19mm are some of the more common sizes, with all other sizes needed at one time or,,std sizes are used(sometimes), like i find the tie rod Adjustment, on tie rod is 7/8". (and tie rod takes another 7/8" as well, for 2). some sizes such as 13/16",15/16" can be useful, you need 1/4",3/8",1/2" socket and ratchet, bar sets. you need deep sockets, allen keys/sockets, some may take star or torks, some take 12pt, special. other general tools, screwdrivers, pliers, etc, you may get as far as timing tools, if you want to get fancy and are confident. do you have mech lifters or hydro lifters, if you have mech lifters, you need the tool, &shims.
as far as getting into fixing your self, a basic knowledge of automobiles in general goes a long way,,your brakes are your most important part,to start, so brakes, tires, and suspension being in good shape is going to keep you going. knowing 1st basic maintenance of motor & trans, and driveline, stuff like cv joints even wheel bearings, and checking oil, changing oil, air filter, fuel filter, glow plugs. being able to troubleshoot electrical problems, etc. then a deeper understanding of a motor, in this case a diesel or td.
getting the work right the first time and it goes easier, sometimes in getting it right you find an easier way to get the work done.
1st thing for a car buy, air/fuel filters prob should change just like that, fuel filter is best to prime(from inlet). id prob get a good oil flush and flush out oil, change, w/filter. check brakes, suspension &stuff like tires. a lot of times i swap out new parts on all these things, and align in the end. timing belt sounds like it needs to be done soon, theres more you do than just the belt, new water pump and coolant, while your doing that id change the oil cooler seal/o-ring. front end seals too. some other things, wheel bearings, suspension rubbers(bushings), they may need to be pressed in. youve got a fairly light for a big vehicle and that small motor has to move it(quite a bit for motors size).auto or stick?take it easy on clutch/trans.prob change manual trans lube, i do prefer a good syn transaxle lube here, and you can do it in a trans without worry.
-
Thanks so much air-cooled! You have put in a nutshell a good program for me to get busy following - as you say, FIRST thing is to get a Bentley VW T3 1984 MANUAL! ...then tools.
One thing I was a bit confused by in your post is that you mention that VWs use metric, but then you began recommending various non-metric socket sizes etc etc... why is this? Do VWs also use non-metric, or should I just stick with metric?
Yep, at 52, it's finally time in my life to get serious about mechanics... I have not owned a vehicle for 16 years because I got fed up with being dependent on profi-mechanics... I decided I would not own another car unless I learned how to fix it myself!
I remember back in 1990 or thereabouts I was on the verge of driving from Smithers BC to Ft. Nelson BC and was nervous that my very old VW T2 VAN would make it or not, and was talking to a friend about it, and he said: "Well, do you TRUST your vehicle?" ...and I realized that I absolutely did NOT trust my vehicle and in fact I DID break down a couple hours out of Ft. Nelson! I don't want to live like that anymore - and I want to take long trips in my CamperVan and feel confident that my vehicle will last the journey.
...anyhow thanks so much for this advice - it has give me some clear step to begin taking immediately! I don't mind investing money and time into this...
-
52 and learning diesel engines? I can relate, but I started wrenching on cars when I was 14 so it was a good fit.
-
52 and learning diesel engines? I can relate, but I started wrenching on cars when I was 14 so it was a good fit.
Haha... I actually did do some wrenching at around 16 on my first car, a green Datsun 510 :)
...but mostly at that age I was too busy learning Black Sabbath riffs on my guitar :D
-
One thing I was a bit confused by in your post is that you mention that VWs use metric, but then you began recommending various non-metric socket sizes etc etc... why is this? Do VWs also use non-metric, or should I just stick with metric?
small sizes of all tools i encourage, 1/4"std, and a few sizes are smaller, metric too, 8mm and smaller, in allen too. other std sizes will fit metric, 5/8" is an exact fit for 16mm, 3/4" for 19mm, others may be similar, and you at times need 2 tools(whether wrench(s)&/or socket set-up) of the same size, sometimes 2 tools of different sizes may be needed, for instance the thru-bolts for ball joint tops, a set-up of 15mm wrench and a 1/2" 15mm socket w/extension. for bigger sizes, a special injector socket a 27mm deep is needed, you need a 1/2" torque wrench, i find a 3/8" 'micro torque' wrench helps a lot. for the axle set-up i use a 1-3/16", 3/4drive socket, i totally forget the mm measurement for this. i encourage craftsman tools, and prefer snap-on either specialty tools, or base sets. and of course there are many other basic types of tools to have. hammers, screw drivers, punches, a couple of chisels, and the list can go on!. and of course your vw has specialty tools for it and that fit 1.6 td motors. the top of the front-end strut set up takes specialty tools for ours, or perhaps your set up for a bus type may be closer to the older air-cooled setup. had a couple of those types, lots of fun(up to 65mph), and versatile, with all the seats setup you can fit like 7 people back there, or the rear seat can be a bed while you take turns driving. heheh. had a gas furnace in the one we had for years, could run you out of the van,,the exhaust heat; in the dash vents, was only really good for defrost, wouldnt do another thing,,heheh.
oh yea dont for get allen sockets, as well as allen keys. like to have a set of std keys on hand 2,,
-
yeah!
Manual
Tools
...and probably building a carport or light garage will be the starters.
I have big ambitions for rebuilding engines etc etc... but as you suggest, will start with dealing with more straight-ahead items like wheels, brakes, suspension, oil changes, etc etc -
Then after that I intend to first master all of those little things that can go wrong on a roadtrip, things that WON'T require a full garage... stuff like clutch cable replacement and stuff.... I want to ask experts what items on that list would be. . . and then get busy learning how to do all those things - as well as stock up on the necessary spare parts (and tools).
Ultimately I would like to be able to rebuild the engine --- and I am figuring that as a newby the best thing to do would be to buy a second hand separate engine, then do my best to rebuild it. . . and make sure it actually works before attempting to put it in :) ....rather than removing the working engine itself cuz if I screw it up I would not then lose my mobility. . . . However I noticed that engine rebuild kits are over $400! Is this true? It seems quite expensive to spend $400 on an old engine as well. . . hmmm... are there cheaper ways of doing it that are still reliable?
-
a car port, or something like; i have a quanzat hut, so its a garage, and run power to it etc.
i never have used a 'rebuild kit' most are generic, if i get a 'kit' its a specific set. for a rebuild, crank must be good, your block sounds like its ok, head ok, but theres a lot of head work to be done for a rebuild. timing kit, seal kit, if your working around the clutch a rear seal 'kit', front end and rear end seals are different kits, water pump, i get a lot new hardware, while home depot and lowes are ok, i prefer better quality hardware; meaning 8.8grade nut, bolts, washers, nilox, and other assorted stuff. 6mx1 and 8mx1.25 are common screws/fasteners. others are needed. giving you an example of the head during a rebuild, disassemble head, the valve seats, if you reuse, will need to be machined, may need exhaust valve guides, new valves and all stuff surounding, trw valves seem to be the best common i have seen, you also need springs, outter(more expensive), and inners, and locks, id consider the spring seats new as well. new lifters, that is if head is good(not flycut), and cam should be ok,,depending.
-
So it is not NECESSARY to buy an actual "rebuild kit"... but instead rather to see exactly WHAT needs replacing and only order those things?? ...or is it that with EVERY rebuild there are certain things that always MUST be replaced?
Are you also saying that you don't get the rebuild kits because you don't think the parts they give are of high enough quality?
-
Bear in mind that this post is coming from someone who thinks that a vanagon equipped with a turbo-diesel is one of the best vehicles ever produced. I currently own three and have done extensive work on many including multiple engine conversions.
$400 in parts is not nearly enough to do a proper rebuild on one of these. A $400 'kit' is either cheap Chinese knock-off parts or quite incomplete. $400 is about the cost of pistons and bearings. You then still need intermediate shaft bearings, replacement rod bolts, new valves, new guides, usually new pre-chamber inserts, new lifters, block bored and surfaced, head surfaced (before new pre-chambers go in), rods reworked, intermediate shaft bearings installed, head gasket, head bolts, other engine gaskets/seals, typically you need a repair sleeve on both ends of the crank, int shaft and cam, oil pump. Add another $1000 for the 'other' parts and machine work and you're in the ballpark for the parts and machine work of a quality rebuild if you do all the labor of assembly. If $400 seems expensive for parts for an engine rebuild, you should seriously bail now on your vanagon camper. Nickel and diming on a Westy is one of the most expensive and least reliable ways to transport yourself. They can be excellent and reliable vehicles, but typically require quite a bit more than a shoestring budget.
-
Thanks LibbyDiesel
...no I am not at all afraid to invest money into my T3 - I am just currently a bit ignorant about what takes what... I was under the impression that a rebuild might not require so many new parts.
Would it be true that doing a rebuild as you are suggesting however, would result in an engine almost as good as when it was new? Perhaps good for another 200K km? [assuming that the remaining engine elements before the rebuild were is reasonable condition - Block etc?
...another question - How do we know if the old engine is worth to rebuild? Do we strip it down to the bare block as look for cracks and warpage? If the cylinder walls have been warn too thin, can we simply replace with oversized pistons?
For someone like myself, just getting into this, I would imagine such a project could take up to a full year?
Thanks
PS - I fully agree with you that Vanagons are one of the all-time best vehicles. Personally I am not in any hurry to get anywhere and I don't even like driving on freeways...
-
The term 'rebuild' is one of the most misused terms in regard to engines. It does have a correct meaning, though, which is to replace all of the wear parts that are out of spec for new parts and machine any necessary components in order to return the engine to basically new condition. So, yes, a proper rebuild will return an engine to basically new condition. 200,000km in a vanagon is about all one could expect.
Thorough inspection during disassembly is required along with the knowledge of what can be rebuilt and what should go on the scrap pile. At this point whenever I am rebuilding an engine, I have the block magnafluxed. The machinist I use charges an extra $25 for the process and it will show up any cracks that would make the block not rebuildable. On an older engine, the cylinder walls are pretty much always worn over the wear limit for the current piston size. Having the block bored oversize and fitted with new pistons is pretty much a matter of course. Because of the added weight and worse aerodynamics of the vanagon over the other VW models, I have found that cracks in the cyl head combustion faces are more common rendering the head to the scrap bin.
It can certainly take a considerable amount of time. A lot of reading and self-education before even commencing on the project would be wise. If the van is currently running and you are serious about learning to do all of the maintenance and repair on it then I think a good approach would be to do the initial items you were asking about, e.g. timing belt, etc in order to 'get your feet wet'. If you want to dive in further, I think a good approach would be to get another used engine and rebuild it while the van is operational. When rebuilt, spend a weekend to swap them out.
-
I am definitely serious about learning to do all the repairs on my T3. [I can them T3s because I am here in the Czech Republic, Central Europe... although I am from Vancouver, BC.]
In my opinion the van is running really very well - feels great... It IS the original engine, never rebuilt I presume - otherwise the seller would have harped on that... when asked the milage, he said "I have NO idea"... - - - I intend to take this van on very long road trips, even down to Turkey and maybe even into Iran if that is even possible?? - - - so my guess is that this engine (or another) will NEED a rebuild before attempting any such ambitious road-trips.
Knowing that I am very serious about learning this stuff, and also knowing that for me this is simply a pleasure van that I don't NEED to drive around for work or anything. . . would you suggest that I jump right in, right now in the beginning by doing myself the belt replacement and fuel pump timing? The van does run well now, and I don't need to drive it much right away - so I could now take the time to fully research the procedure, study it on up, and buy the proper tools. . . then in a month or so attempt it. - - - But you guys know this stuff better than me, and how difficult the task at hand truly is.
To guage my level of aptitude - I am a professional acoustic instrument maker (I design and build original stringed instruments), I have taken my laptop motherboard out and in at least 10X, I have rebuilt my mom's house 20 years ago, gas, electric, plumbing, new roof, new drain tiles, etc etc... and I did major repairs and modifications to my bandsaw and other power tools a few times...
...but auto mechanics is something I never spent much time at.
Anyhow, here in Czech, the belt changing and fuel pump adjusting would cost US$250. Auto repair prices here are SO MUCH CHEAPER than in Canada! ...but still, I want the FEELING of knowing how to do it myself! That's the kinda thing that makes me happy.
-
Knowing that I am very serious about learning this stuff, and also knowing that for me this is simply a pleasure van that I don't NEED to drive around for work or anything. . . would you suggest that I jump right in, right now in the beginning by doing myself the belt replacement and fuel pump timing? The van does run well now, and I don't need to drive it much right away - so I could now take the time to fully research the procedure, study it on up, and buy the proper tools. . . then in a month or so attempt it. - - - But you guys know this stuff better than me, and how difficult the task at hand truly is.
That sounds reasonable to me. Doing the timing belt and injection pump timing is not overly difficult, but it must be done *precisely*. There is very little margin for error with the timing belt and doing it incorrectly can destroy the engine fairly easily. Make sure to research it completely so you understand the correct procedure and have the correct tools on hand.
-
....so the obvious FIRST immediate step is to get the Bentley manual. I guess this is the one??
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/volkswagen/repair-information/vw-vanagon-80-91-repair-manual.html
...or is there one for the specific year (1984)?
I noticed there is a HAYNES manual also - but everyone seems to say BENTLEY'S is the way to go....
-
That Bentley is good for the vanagon in general although it does not cover the turbo-diesel option as that was never offered in the US. The 1.6TD engine fitted in the vanagon has several vanagon specific parts but is most like an '83/'84 Quantum. Here is the Quantum Bentley. (http://www.bentleypublishers.com/volkswagen/repair-information/vw-quantum-82-88-repair-manual.html) Haynes is ok. It's not bad to have both, but get the Bentley first. You can often find them used on eBay or Amazon.
-
So having both the Bentley Vanagon and Quantum manuals together will be enough (more or less) to do a 1.6TD rebuild and installation. I guess having the Haynes Vanagon would be good also just to cross-reference. Does Haynes also have something covering the 1.6TD?
Considering SPACE REQUIREMENTS for an engine rebuild... is it necessary to do the entire procedure in the garage? ...or is it conceivable to perhaps do the bulk of the work in a large room upstairs? Or is the block just too heavy to move up there, or too heavy once it is reassembled to move back to the garage? Obvously once it is done the engine needs to be run a bit and tweeked while still OUT of the vehicle (or no?) and this obviously needs to be done in the garage.
Thanks!
-
The vanagon Bentley will cover vanagon items like the transaxle, suspension, cooling system, etc... The Quantum Bentley would cover the engine itself. I say that the Quantum is the closest because the stock vanagon 1.6TD engine also has solid lifters and uses the quantum/vanagon exhaust manifold. However, there are still some ancillary differences. The air filter, intake tubing, exhaust, oil filter flange, oil pan, oil pump, turbo oil return, injection pump, injection lines, flywheel and clutch are all diesel vanagon or TD vanagon specific parts.
I can carry a complete short block without issue. A long block hurts my back. YMMV. Much of the work is on disassembly and getting ready to take the parts to the machine shop. All of that is work on a dirty engine and dirty engine parts. I'd want to keep those in an area that won't be hurt with a bit of grease, dirt, and black oil. The parts will be clean for reassembly, but after machine work is done and all the correct parts are on hand it doesn't take very long to assemble the short block (a few hours if you take your sweet time).
I have rebuilt quite a few engines and have never run them outside the vehicle. On initial startup, I use a known good/tuned injection pump and injectors so I don't have to spend any time adjusting anything. It is very important to avoid extended idling on fresh rings/cylinders and to get the engine driving and under varying loads or you risk glazing the cylinders and not having the rings seat.
-
...sounds like the Quantum manual will work, alongside help from experienced people for advice....
Also sounds like the main dis-assembly should be done outside. . . and anyhow, who is going to steal a bunch of old oily engine parts? [of course some people will, but our town is pretty safe].
I doubt I will be able to re-assemble in just a few hours... probably more like a few weeks, being my first one... I will be meditating on each bolt!! ...but sounds like THAT work can be done inside and in peace since all the parts will then be clean.
...anyhow I am going to build a small carport for sure. . .
It is a pity that in the US TD engines were not put into T3s... it seems for this reason that on youtube is simply NOTHING on guys rebuilding or tweeking T3 diesels, because there AREN'T any! Europe is FULL of them.... I just got back from 10 days in Bosnia and was amazed. . .! Practically every second vehicle is a T3 DIESEL! ...they are all over the place down there, and a look online shows that there are tons for sale, and all mostly around $1500 in good condition! ....so tempted to go get some :) ...if anyone wants to see some pics of those T3s I have them on FB...
-
I noticed there is a HAYNES manual also - but everyone seems to say BENTLEY'S is the way to go....
the bentley is the shop manual; the haynes is ok, i usually(in the past) had better results with a haynes over chilton, a haynes has steps in it the shop manual doesnt have outlined, can be helpful (as a second source).
-
libb's out line of a rebuild is fairly thorough, a $400 kit wont cover 1/4 of his 'definition' of a rebuild,heheh, shop around for good prices on parts. in the US you can google 'vw diesel parts', and come up with a list, autohausaz is one of my(our) best parts sources, theyre drying up lately, so get them while you can, for most normal things theres still stock. i get name brand parts for almost everything, if not all, like trw valves, the meyle pistons i got are 'cheaper', but they are european, perhaps they are german as the box said, they will last 10 or more years, dont figure i ll get too many more years out of my girls(10-15). one of the things libb outlined in his rebuild 'kit' is going to be the need for special tools, like for intermediate bearings, youll need a press out&in and may need a shop for those, among other things.
the suspension may be similar to a T2 van/bus. i had a couple, one was a T2, that was with a typeI motor, they figured out all that size&weight was pushing the magnesium case all over the place, when they went later to the T4 motor, aluminum case, it worked out. same motor went into the porsche 914&912, and T4's. 1.7,1.8,&2.0 T4 motor. but what i wanted to outline is the suspension and brakes. at tirerack they still have bilsteins for mk1s&2s. so you can look up a set for your T3 camper, affordable and good. the T2 bus had an easy suspension not too dissimilar to a bug, only beefier, working on it was not difficult. a couple of stands (or 4)a good jack, a couple of blocks of wood, and your ready to start; well you need some of the right tools to get to the next level. id rebuild the suspensions front and rear, and brakes. a good few parts and not cheap (for all the parts), but well worth the work&investment. thats stuff like all rubber bushings for front/rear, wheel bearings, prob calipers and rotors & rear work. i get those stainless flexible brake lines, if i can get the old rubber ones off, cannt always get old ones off. plenty of other parts to get, ball joints, tie rod ends, roll bar rubbers, good rubbers (i prefer new)before an alignment, i get a 4 wheel align once in a while. for the rears it takes shims for the adjustment, that rear adjustment should last for years, then just check on the machine and align the front(when you do it again).
-
Thanks so much for all of this info and inspiration - the GREAT NEWS is that just yesterday I GOT MY VAN!!!!! :) :) :) ...his name is George! . . .I already began ripping out all the stinky curtains and seat covers and carpets and crap - the previous owner did an amazing job on the body and mechanics, but the interior. . . well. . . The van goes really well, engine is great as is... the only weird thing is when going slowly over bumps the steering wheel seems to shake a bit like it is loose! ...I am guessing something is loose and getting warnout in there.
The other thing is the brakes squeek a bit when going slow and braking... he said the pads are still quite good but need replacing pretty soon - so maybe they need replacing NOW!? Better have a look ASAP!
...anyhow the van will be sitting til November when I return from Canada with my new Drivers' licence :) ---then I'm going the ROCKnROLL! Can't wait!
Going to India in Dec./Jan. so serious work on the van won't start til Feb. and it will be cold!!
I am going to now order all 3 manuals... get them sent to Vancouver, and pick them up there on my visit...
What you said makes me somewhat concerned that there will come a day when T3 parts will no longer be available... or be super expensive [this suddenly made to realize one reason why T1s and T2s are probably so expensive - cuz perhaps parts for those are super expensive now?].
...but I had an idea. . . you know I was just down in Bosnia, and down there almost every second vehicle is a T3. And they are really cheap down there... and almost every second house is a junk yard full of old vehicles, and this is a poor and cheap country. Bringing a whole vehicle from there to Czech would be really difficult - BUT bringing back tons of T3 spare parts would be no problem at all... so I am thinking now about making a trip down there just for parts? - - - also, those guys down there must have some sources also for new T3 parts... I think I need to research this with my friends from down there --- maybe my buddies down there can hook me up with some cheap and plentiful supplier of T3 parts? I will try.....
-
The T3 (Vanagon) has gone way up in value in North America in the last decade. Similar condition vans sell for 2-3X what they would sell for 10 years ago.
I wouldn't worry too much about the stock T3 engines and engine parts becoming rare. The AAZ 1.9TD is almost a drop-in engine, as is an AHU/1Z/AFN TDI running with a Land Rover 300TDI injection. Either option gives much better performance and the TDI engines will give much better performance AND better fuel economy at the same time. In fact, instead of doing any engine rebuild on the 1.6TD, you might consider one of those two options.
-
The law in Czech is that you can put an engine, a different type than the original, only if you keep that car only for yourself - but if you ever plan to sell that car it can only be sold with the original engine type in it.... so this is something to consider. . .
...the guy I just bought it off HAD a 1.9 TD in there, and he very much preferred it!
I will consider what you suggest, because it always possible just to re-drop the original engine back in if I decide to sell (just like this last guy did) - - - the more I think of it, the more that idea makes sense! hmmm
-
It's really exciting to think about possibly putting a superior quality engine into my T3... but the laws here in the EU are more strict regarding engine swaps. Also going from country to country can be tricky - sometimes they check the engine type and if the type is different they can suspect that the car is stolen. . . however I doubt this with such an old funky van.....
The other thing is that probably an engine swap would add complications and this being my first such job, perhaps safer to keep things as simple as possible?
That being said, I am all ears, and will keep researching (also about the laws), because significantly increase power and economy is very attractive! The T3 is pretty wimpy on hills and fuel prices in EU are crazy!
-
The 1.9 TD (AAZ) is almost the same engine as the 1.6TD but with larger displacement. It is not really any more complicated of an engine. There are a few extra small things that would need to be addressed (e.g. intake ports are a different shape) but those would not add very little to the install.
-
Yes - the previous owner had a 1.9 in there, and I am very much guessing it is exactly what you are saying here, an AAZ 1.9 TD. He loved that engine so much that he went to the trouble to remove it to keep just for himself --- he said the 1.9 is far more powerful.
So I think that I could do the same thing as him... put in a 1.9, and then IF I would ever want to sell, just drop the 1.6 back in...
One question.... as I am on the verge of buying these SHOP MANUALS... It seems kinda strange to me that there would not exist a SHOP MANUAL in English which would cover the '84 T3 with 1.6TD. Because the UK is in EUROPE and seems there are plenty of T3 1.6TDs over there.... I will try inquiring with those Brits to see if I can come up with something.
-
Libby Diesel, you were saying that the Bentley Manual does not cover 1.6TD Diesel.. but some folks are saying that it does, and on the book itself it says it does... is this that it is only covering regular diesel and not Turbo? ...or?
-
Sorry, disregard that last post - turbo is NOT covered in that Bentley manual. :(
-
Vanagon Bentley does not cover the turbo-diesel. Quantum Bentley does.
-
yes... sorry to make you repeat yourself... I asked around the UK guys and nobody seems to know anything about any 'all in one' T3 TD manual, so I will just go ahead and scoop both the vanagon and quantum manuals......
-
...would the exact name for my engine be "1.6 TD JX"?
I don't see the "JX" listed in the technical papers on my van, but everyone seems to be calling the European 1.6TD a "JX"....
-
Yes. The engine code for the 1.6TD engines installed in Vanagons is the JX. To be clear, the Vanagon Bentley only covers the vanagon models/engines that were imported into North America. It does not cover the 1.6TD (JX), 1.7 non-turbo (KY), 1.6 air-cooled, higher compression DJ water-boxer, or inline-5 engines that were installed in other markets.
-
ahhh... OK - thanks so much for this information! Knowing that I have a JX helps really a lot because in the UK there seems to be a fair number of them, and there is on-line info in English.
Another thing I learned is that in the UK T3s are not called T3, but rather are called T25!
So when I google VW T25 1.6TD JX ...I am lead to a lot of info which relates exactly to MY van :D
Knowing that something like a JX is in a VW QUANTUM really helps also. I have also been hearing that the JX was used in VW GOLFs. You know down in Bosnia there are millions of T3 Diesels (not sure if turbo)... and there are even MORE GOLFs! ...in fact in Sarajevo (capital city) appearantly they were even manufacturing them for a long time! --- so it might be that that country is in fact FULL of JX engines and parts... seems so.
-
I have located and downloaded PDF files (2) for the JX engine, and JX Diesel Injection system. . .
. . .the exact name of these PDFs are:
1)
V.A.G. SERVICE
WORKSHOP MANUAL VW TRANSPORTER 1980 >
CS - JX - KY
4 cyl. diesel engines
2)
V.A.G. SERVICE
WORKSHOP MANUAL VW TRANSPORTER 1980 >
CS - JX - KY
diesel injection and glow plug system
...do you think these V.A.G. manuals are comprehensive and detailed enough to do an engine rebuild - ? [I'm sure it can't hurt to get the QUANTUM MANUAL also for cross-reference!]
...seems like the second VAG PDF here would be what I would use to do the fuel pump adjusting. [these files are pretty small (14MB total) so shoot me an email if you'd like to have a look [email protected] ].
-
Andrew, can I ask a question...
...I have been reading up a bit of JX engine rebuilding, and it always seems like they wait until the engine is performing badly before thinking about doing a rebuild - and then when taking apart the engine it becomes clear that things are in such bad condition that major expensive parts must be replaced (like a whole new head and pistons for example).
So would it not perhaps make more sense with a very old engine - to do a rebuild on it BEFORE it starts performing particularly badly? I mean, if the engine still performs relatively strongly does that not mean a much greater chance that the rebuild will be more simple, economical, and not require replacing large and expensive components (of course there will never be any guarantees - I understand that).
I ask because currently my JX feels pretty strong and responsive - but it is very old and never been rebuilt as far as I know. . . maybe I would save a lot of money in rebuilding now while it is still running well, rather than waiting a couple of years when it starts to crap out?
-
It's extremely hard to say what the cost of a rebuild will be and at what point rebuilding sooner rather than later would save money. If a pre-chamber insert breaks in half and falls into the cylinder, it obviously would have saved money to rebuild it the day before... In a similar way, you might get another 10 years of driving out of a well-running engine and your life situation might change causing you to decide to sell it in 3 years... In that case, the cost rebuilding vs. not rebuilding would be a darn sight more. Usually people rebuild when the engine has an 'issue' because that's usually the time when they need to. I can't really give you better than that.
-
It's extremely hard to say what the cost of a rebuild will be and at what point rebuilding sooner rather than later would save money. If a pre-chamber insert breaks in half and falls into the cylinder, it obviously would have saved money to rebuild it the day before... In a similar way, you might get another 10 years of driving out of a well-running engine and your life situation might change causing you to decide to sell it in 3 years... In that case, the cost rebuilding vs. not rebuilding would be a darn sight more. Usually people rebuild when the engine has an 'issue' because that's usually the time when they need to. I can't really give you better than that.
Excellent and useful answer! ...Thanks, it helps me to understand the issues better.
-
Actually as we discussed before, the best thing to do would be to rebuild an engine separately - then install... taking out my current engine while it is still hopefully running well.
I just now had a brilliant idea... I know that Bosnia is absolutely full of T3s in junkyards and around the country - I think next summer I will go down there in my van and make a tour of the junkyards, buy a JX and as many other excellent condition parts are I can find... fill up my van and come home with the goodies :)
However it can be tricky to know if an engine is rebuildable --- my buddy down there has a huge double workshop since his father used to have a truch repair business - and this workshop is still intact... so best would be to buy an engine - then strip it down somewhat while still there in order to determine if it is rebuildable - - - if yes, then bring her home - if not, then scrap it and look for another...
...sorry, I am just 'thinking aloud' :)
-
The van goes really well, engine is great as is... the only weird thing is when going slowly over bumps the steering wheel seems to shake a bit like it is loose! ...I am guessing something is loose and getting warnout in there.
The other thing is the brakes squeek a bit when going slow and braking... he said the pads are still quite good but need replacing pretty soon - so maybe they need replacing NOW!? Better have a look ASAP!
i find a lot of loose steering wheels can be the steering 'ujoint' should be right above rack. one you cannt do yourself can get to be $200 or more in work & parts.
...the guy I just bought it off HAD a 1.9 TD in there, and he very much preferred it!
thought you had said it may have been a 1.9tdi, i suppose it could also have been an aaz i guess appropriately it would be a 1.9 td idi. a 1.9 m-tdi hopped up would be snicce
as far as the brakes, as i outlined before, things like good rotors, possibly vented would be nice, good calipers, i like new, add some sport to them, you wont be sorry if you set up brakes right, you never know when youll need them; good pads, i like semi-metalic pads, used to buy them from repco, clean all braking surfaces when assembling. other new stuff may/includes master cyl, new flexible lines, i like the stainless braided types. rears; either new or work the drums you have back there, had drums for the rear rite? new rear brakes, thats shoes then springs&cylinders, have fun with the spring assys, take a pic of springs or like what i do, cause everytime i tend to forget which spring/lever went where, i have both rears up and open so as i disassemble 1 side i can now look at the other side for reference. if the smaller springs cannt kick your asz, and getting the parking brake can be a little chore, try on that big lower spring on for size!heheh :-\ can take some work, the right tool, and some leverage. clean all brake surfaces when you assemble, again. check on wheel bearings that you dont upset your alignment, rear and front, if you can just pop them out, maybe its a good idea to swap new ones in, i like sk,or fag bearings. got a bonnet i can use a grease gun and a few pumps and you grease the inner portion on bearing, use extra grease for rest. youll need a punch and metal hammer and stuff like a block of wood to do the races, out&in.
-
Thanks so much for this info and inspiration!! I definitely intend to basically rebuild ALL the mechanical parts of this van. . . slowly slowly slowly... get it all done and done as well as possible. . .
My main work will begin in Feb. since I will be out of the country mostly until then - but in the meantime I will be reading and studying everything I can get my hands on :)
-
you had said the carpets were in terrible condition; how about under the carpets? perhaps you should strip interior to metal/paint. this gives you a chance to see the condition of a good part of the body, removing the wall interiors is clips or screws(in the older models anyway). take seats out, and clean everything off. if theres any rust or paint bubbling you can take care of small things; and if there are bigger problems, you now see them,,at least. id also look at the under pan, floor etc, and check for rust, at the same time. a couple of places i look are around wheel wells and around doors esp., seams, etc.
when you put it back together, id put down a sound deadener, maybe some padding, will feel spongy and soft, then new carpet; im sure you can find a shop that can do an interior for a reasonable price, style and color you want,,.rest of interior too, like walls, doors. one thing id say is clean out seat rails(on floor) and some grease. stuff like that.
-
Absolutely yes to all of that about the body and interior... when I bought the van I looked ALL OVER the bottom and under the van and I was astonish to find that all the rust has been seemingly properly fixed!
But when I got it home I checked a bit under the carpets on the passenger side and found that under the the carpet was some sort of particle board that was wet and saturated with water - and just under that some surfact rust was starting... hmmmm I really wonder where THAT water would be coming from... seems like there was some kind of a spill there recently and they didn't bother to lift the flooring to properly dry out the area.... the PO had just swapped the engine back to original 3 weeks ago - maybe it is something to do with the RAD which is right in that area?
In any case I certainly will basically rip everything out of the interior and remake it new and funky all by myself --- I am a wood worker (instrument maker) so plan to remake all cabinets, beds, tables, flooring etc in solid birch ! ...the walls and ceiling in kind of bamboo or grass-cloth... it's going to be Zen style. You know in Eastern Europe and in Asia nobody is allowed to enter a house before removing shoes - I will do the same with my van.... shoes OFF before entering (I will have a stash of warm slippers for people's cold feet though :) )
-
But when I got it home I checked a bit under the carpets on the passenger side and found that under the the carpet was some sort of particle board that was wet and saturated with water - and just under that some surfact rust was starting... hmmmm I really wonder where THAT water would be coming from... seems like there was some kind of a spill there recently and they didn't bother to lift the flooring to properly dry out the area.... the PO had just swapped the engine back to original 3 weeks ago - maybe it is something to do with the RAD which is right in that area?
if one spot of the whole interior carpet is wet it could be a spill, coolant or heater core leak, if the radiator is close you need to check that out, usually a coolant leak/moisture smells sweet. have a/c? could be evaporator water in the interior. under the carpet and underlayment, like padding, particle board stuff, and sound deadening when it gets moist rarely drys by its self, and probably will get wetter, stay damp or wet, and underneath it will rust obviously. clean up all that rust, look for more, etc, after rust is fairly cleaned up theres metal treatment you can use; i think its 501 or 502. needs to be mixed with water(yes water), applied, some rust will be turned(inert), bare metal, and turned rust will be treated; i think now, after an hour or so, you now rinse off(water i think)(like a wet/moist rag, towel), i do believe you clean for paint before you use metal prep. i use primer 1st, and 2 coats of paint, can use cans.
In any case I certainly will basically rip everything out of the interior and remake it new and funky all by myself --- I am a wood worker (instrument maker) so plan to remake all cabinets, beds, tables, flooring etc in solid birch ! ...the walls and ceiling in kind of bamboo or grass-cloth... it's going to be Zen style. You know in Eastern Europe and in Asia nobody is allowed to enter a house before removing shoes - I will do the same with my van.... shoes OFF before entering (I will have a stash of warm slippers for people's cold feet though :) )
your interior sound so cool, &hip. cabinets in a bus or camper is a nice addition, not to say, birch! and bamboo-grass walls & ceiling ;D taking your shoes off,haha, but the driver needs shoes, cannt use brakes too well on slippers.
-
Yes, when I return from my Winter travels - I will begin serious work on GEorge (my van)... and begin with ripping everything out... once all is out first thing will be to deal with all and any rust that I find --- hopefully there will not be so much that I will need to get into welding - but I will get into that if need be.
The next thing to do is to decide on all electronics I will need and want and make sure all wiring gets done before putting in new flooring and walls etc.
At the same time I will need to start dealing with the mechanical needs as well which brings me back to the Original Topic - replacing the timing belt and adjusting the fuel pump:
I have found some sources of excellent info regarding how to actually do this - here is what I have found:
1) http://vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=28
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqx2WVMj14Q
I am starting to "get" what this is all about. Basically it seems that you need to put the engine on TDC - put in the dial guage - turn the engine backwards until the guage stops moving - calibrate the dial guage to zero - then turn the engine forward...... at this point I need to study it a bit more, but involves loosening the fuel pump and turning it until the dial guage reads the correct setting... I will of course get it completely straight before I begin - but at least it is exciting to start to get my head around this stuff.
-
look in the idi section and look at its faq's, then vinces site for the dial adjustment. (for timing).
find out if anything is making the floor wet, whether radiator, heater core, possibly an a/c drain prob, or if water is leaking thru like a door or window rubber,seal, or some rust.
id be wary of welding on a car, most welds tend to rust, and the sheet metal is 16gauge or so so if it does rust it needs to be taken care of quickly, otherwise in a few years it too can rust out rather quickly.
as far as electronics, maybe you want a new wire loom, possibly not, but in the US wiring kits used to be easy to come by. youll want ignition wires, sensor/gauge wires, radio wires. sensors you may want a few. the dash warning,idiot lights, keep. you can add oil pressure, possibly a water temp, maybe the water temp in the dash is enough for you,,what is that exhaust temp, pyrometer? esp if you hop up a 1.9m-tdi, volt gauge. tach? ;D. what other gauges go with a diesel? for a gas i know, like oil temp and a vac gauge. all senders, i prefer electronic, remote, not running oil all the way to dash gauge, etc. run those wires in a loom, not unprotected running along floor.
-
I raised the carpets and it dried out and stayed dry, so looks OK.
Will def. keep a keen eye on this and such things.
You warning about welding is well taken... this van supposedly had tons of rust at one time and the PO just took care of basically all of it... cut it all out and welded in all new panels and things. From what I see in places the welding job looks a bit sloppy - but all looks very strong anyway. Looking more and more closely and in nooks and crannies, I AM finding some rust and rust returning here and there but NOTHING is visible from the outside. I know I will be dealing with keeping the rust at bay - and this is par for the course (never neglect and let get out of hand!)
That is a great idea about the LOOM. At the moment on this van there are naked wires everywhere. Very sloppy wiring jobs all around and the engine looks like spagetti! Making new wiring looms would of course require unwiring the car, then re-wiring thru the new loom... big and risky work, but well worth it - just need to make sure to lable all wires and terminals extremely well!!
Regarding wiring, I have one weird issue... in the engine I noticed an important wire terminal receptor with not wire leading off of it... I am now told that this is a secondary oil temp. sensor lead terminal and that the dashboard on my van does not support that second sensor anyway so I should forget about it.... BUT THIS FACT TELLS ME THAT OBVIOUSLY THE ENGINE I NOW HAVE IN THERE IS NOT ORIGINAL! Other people are telling me that 84 T3s do not have TD engines! So I am beginning to suspect that what the TRUE original engine for this van should be is a plain 1.6D engine - not TD JX! This presents me with a dilemna because in the EU engines are supposed to remain origina.! But the technical registration paper on my van the engine type says 1.6 TD (which I think is WRONG). ...so I am not sure what to do cuz I want to find a second original engine, rebuild it, and swap with what is there now. So do I go back to a 1.6D, or stay with 1.6 TD? 1.6D would be closer to the truth, but the papers say 1.6 TD! Personally I don't think those checkers/controllers have any idea what is original or not -- the technical paper has NO engine serial number so how are they going to know what is what? ...and will they care?
-
i probably wouldnt sweat it; the wiring terminal you talking about may not have been in use, from factory; no way to know, i dont think it makes much difference, ive never seen a factory oil temp for the older 1.6's, or a secondary. a turbo is more in need of a oil temp reading than a na. id stick with a td, a nonturbo motor has little power for a golf, if not as big as a transporter. the 1.6d na was like the slowest production car(s) of their time,,&turbo is much funner :P
id consider a new wire loom, putting it in,oh what fun, bare copper wires? or just wires run singly? do you have a napa store there? then again iirc you in chezh, plenty of german parts there, or get a used good loom, id perfer new. various wires run around can be a real problem to trace down, fix. a loom install i cannt say is any easier,,?check for someone to do it for you?? you need a good shop 1st.
as for the welds/body fixes, id think of stripping all welds inside and outside, those nooks are weld pockets and porosities. after stripping paint, clean up welds and esp. the pockets, nooks; wire brush(on a drill), or body work attachments, theyll be less than a grinder attach. clean up as best as you can; use metal treatment/prep i stated before, can use for a few days if needed, use around welds and any rust. i think after washing metal prep off you dont clean again is what im saying. use like rust-oleum over welds and treated rust spots. prob then prep rest of the body; inside&outside for painting. use a sealing coat first.
im pointing out im getting to both the front and back of the welds as best i can, i use rust spray for somethings, like the back of welds i cannt get to, maybe because the panel sections overlap, or such, get rustproofing in there at the least.
-
Yes, all you just wrote will go straight on my TO DO list. Sadly yes, the rust work WAS all done - but on inspection, the work was not that of an artist by a long shot --- very much full of nocks and places h20 can get into.... seems I need to go over everything welded, smooth it all out to get rid of all "hiding places" - get rid of all little rust coming back... then treat and paint all metal (both sides of every weld)... ONLY THEN begin to make interior new again... this way I will extend the life of the current body work :)
I think right now I will begin putting together that BIG master list.
Do you know much about the 3-4 slider issue in pre-90 T3 transmissions?