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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: RunninWild on March 29, 2015, 06:02:41 pm

Title: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 29, 2015, 06:02:41 pm
Just grabbed a 2nd pump for redundancy on my build which supposedly had a leak somewhere. One will eventually be used for a jiles build. I just compared it to my other pump and I've noticed a couple differences. I was curious if anyone had any imput on what the differences are and if one would be better then the other. The dirty one is my orignial pump and the cleaner one is supposedly the one with the leak.
Things  I've noticed are the one pump has some kind of electronic solenoid or something on the bottom right side beside where the pulley goes. The other pump also has a flat top where the turbo enricher is. Is it safe to assume the 1.9 turbo diesel pump I just bought is actually for a N/A motor?

(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20150329_175639_zpspigtlver.jpg)
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab341/mikeinaus/Mobile%20Uploads/20150329_175634_zpsoschvgyi.jpg)
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 29, 2015, 06:57:03 pm
Unfortunately the clean pump is an Eco pump with no boost enrichment. I think it's from 92 Passats. Also, this pump needs a 50mm mounting bracket while your other pump needs a 68mm
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 29, 2015, 07:09:27 pm
so is it a turbo pump or n/a? Will it give enough fuel to run a turbo with? I guess I'll have to get a hold of the seller and see if I can grab the mounting bracket off of him. Is there any internal differences between the pumps other then the boost enrichment and the mounting bracket?

I guess my next question is would I be able to convert it to an enrichment pump with one of these? http://www.hansautoparts.com/TurboBoostEnrichmentPumpTop.aspx
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: vanbcguy on March 29, 2015, 07:34:05 pm
The Eco pump has a smaller plunger I believe plus no LDA. It will "run a turbo" as it came with one stock, but it's not a good pump if you're looking for more than 75 hp or so.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 29, 2015, 08:09:53 pm
The eco on the AAZ still has a 9mm rotor from what I remember. Check the 6th pump digit (x) for the plunger diameter. 0 460 4x4 yyy. You can convert it to turbo enrichment, it's basically the same as if you were converting a NA pump to TD.

It was originally used on a turbo engine.

It will give enough fuel, but by doing so will cause more smoke when off boost. Really though, with a small turbo and stock boost pressures you won't be off boost very often.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 29, 2015, 08:30:49 pm
I'm gonna be using a t3 at first then eventually upgrading to a holset. I know the t3 fairly big and inefficient but I'm not very bothered by smoke. As long as I don't constantly leave a thick black cloud behind me it'll be fine with the odd cloud.

The previous owner said he thinks the pump was leaking near the "lda" cap. Does that make any sense? I didn't think fuel entered that part of the pump? Either way I'll probably end of opening both of them up and putting in new seal kits.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 29, 2015, 08:32:36 pm
If you take the flat top off you'll see that it isn't even machined out. It's not leaking from there unless it was the return fitting.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 29, 2015, 08:49:18 pm
Interesting. So is that lda from prothe the right part? I know general consensus is he sucks but know anywhere else I could grab an lda? And possibly a seal kit?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 29, 2015, 09:29:39 pm
You'll have to swap some stuff around to make your throttle pieces work (just the throttle bushing I think) but it looks right to me. Been years since I did it though...

Being used it's probably fine  ;D

Ebay has real Bosch seal kits, and so does your local fuel shop. Just bring in your pump number and they will set you up.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 30, 2015, 12:53:42 pm
Hey burn what do you mean by the pump bracket? Like the metal arm that mounts it onto the block?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 30, 2015, 08:02:18 pm
Yep, the one with the big hole in it that the pump goes in.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 30, 2015, 08:05:54 pm
I actually test fitted both pumps to my bracket and it looks like the bolts line up on both pumps. Is there something else that makes it incompatible? Does it have something to do with the different sprockets?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 30, 2015, 08:08:32 pm
Correct, the bolt holes are in the exact same place. The difference is the raised ring on the pump around the shaft. That is 50mm on the single piece pulleys and 68mm on the double pulleys. That ring is what centers the pump on the bracket. One the 68mm brackets the holes are actually threaded as well.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 30, 2015, 08:22:02 pm
Is the threaded holes the best way to visually identify the proper bracket? I can ask the previous owner if he has the bracket but it'd be nice to be able to tell if its the right one before I pay extra for it.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 30, 2015, 08:30:30 pm
Best way is to measure the size of the hole. It's either 50mm or 68mm.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on March 30, 2015, 08:35:07 pm
Thanks burn, you've been a great help! If I cant get a bracket off the PO do you know if one from a 1.6(t) would work?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on March 30, 2015, 08:48:16 pm
All 1.6s are 50mm. I might be able to grab one for you at the yard next time I'm there (about a month). Pulley too if you need it. Send me a PM in 2-3 weeks if you are still looking.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on April 01, 2015, 07:43:41 pm
any idea if the ALH pump sprocket would work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Injection-Pump-Pulley-Gear-VW-Jetta-Golf-MK4-Beetle-ALH-1-9-TDI-038-130-111-A-/311321949618?hash=item487c3bf5b2&vxp=mtr  Looks the same in pics...
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: burn_your_money on April 01, 2015, 08:42:14 pm
I know it will bolt to your pump but I don't know if the offset is correct.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: dontdoemyourself on May 15, 2015, 07:12:19 am
I am now in need of some advice in this department... I bought runninwild's LDA pump for a Giles rebuild but will need to swap over to the later 68mm style bracket (I have an alh on the way, hoping it will work!) as well as a sprocket.. Is there any other mechanical parts I'll need??
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: libbydiesel on May 15, 2015, 07:30:06 am
You are trying to use an ALH accessory/pump bracket on an AAZ?  That won't work. 
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on May 15, 2015, 07:33:38 am
Other then the lda, bracket and the sprocket both pumps looked identical. I don't think anything different would be needed for you to run it. Did you get those links I sent you to those ebay auctions with the proper brackets?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: vanbcguy on May 15, 2015, 10:41:39 am
The ALH engine block is very very different.  The mounting points for the bracket to the engine are not the same.  You can't bolt an ALH bracket to an AAZ block.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: dontdoemyourself on May 15, 2015, 08:24:59 pm
Shoot.. Are the ahu ones that are interchangeable? Ok.. Guess I need an AAZ bracket .. And pulley.. Anyone have a line?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: libbydiesel on May 15, 2015, 08:30:17 pm
The only bracket that will fit the larger snout AAZ pump is the stock bracket that came with that pump.  The center hole of the AHU bracket fits the smaller snout pump so it will not work without machining to the larger diameter. 
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on May 15, 2015, 11:19:30 pm
http://m.ebay.com/itm/231529515752?nav=SEARCH
http://m.ebay.com/itm/131494032247?nav=SEARCH
First one is obo so you can low  ball and might get lucky.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: libbydiesel on May 16, 2015, 07:13:58 am
The first link is the wrong bracket.  It fits the smaller snout.  The second looks right.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: dontdoemyourself on May 16, 2015, 08:08:52 am
Cool, I actually bought my bracket from the guy who posted the second link.. So am I correct in my observation that there is no pump lock on the late AAZ bracket...??
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: libbydiesel on May 16, 2015, 10:56:05 am
The hub/sprocket style pump has a pin that slides between the hub and the pump case so there is no interaction between the pin and the bracket.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: dontdoemyourself on May 17, 2015, 09:21:38 pm
Nice, now to find a sprocket.. Will the tdi ones work? Is there any other electrical connections I'll need to hook up?
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: RunninWild on May 18, 2015, 12:04:44 pm
just the fuel cutoff and timing advance that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: AAZ Pump Differences?
Post by: dontdoemyourself on May 18, 2015, 08:59:31 pm
Cool,  think I can manage that