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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: shelbot on February 07, 2015, 12:27:21 pm

Title: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 07, 2015, 12:27:21 pm
Hey everyone I've been building my 86 1.6l td jetturd over the winter. Giles pump and injectors, rotating assembly is balanced to within .5 grams, stock rods, 76.988 arco pistons, head rebuilt with everything OE, arp head studs, need to grab a single notch mls head gasket, and the never ending turbo search. I have a 18x7x3.5,2.5 in/outlet IC and plan on running 20psi for my dd. I would also like to hear about these pistons. The machinist said they look just like factory but you can't tell the quality of metal by looks. I could at this point put everything together with what I have but spending this much for a failure would kill me inside. So any tips on a turbo replacement, a quality mls gasket manufacturer, and these pistons would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on February 07, 2015, 03:46:23 pm
I had an IC smaller than yours and it suffered from a little added lag, that one would definitely add some. I am running a 28x5x2 with 2" outlets and I would say it is perfect.
I ran arco pistons in my first build. I do not think they are the quality of KS but they are not bad. I would not buy them again as the price is only 100.00 difference and I don't want to keep the guy selling them in business. If you have them already I would not worry, except to get some Goetze rings as the ones on there now are not good. I have a pal that took an engine apart and 3 of the 4 pistons had broken rings. Many say oil consumption is bad with them as well. I like the holset turbo. I haven't ran one personally but the Mitsubishi turbos are built almost identical to the holset and I have friends running them so I would recommend them. If you get a Garrett replace the stock bearing with the 360 one. Napa has Elring or some other OEM company in there altrom line. Search the FAQ for the post I made with the part numbers.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 07, 2015, 05:34:37 pm
I do believe the pistons are a bit thinner in the wrist pin area. However, they are built for European applications (new vehicles Ford and Isuzu (I think it is)).

I KNOW the rings are NOT good.

One of the most helpful things you could do for yourself is to skillfully port the intake and exhaust ports of the head. Night and day. Night and day in how they move air in and heat out of that head. Not only do you get a better kick in the seat, but, I really think it extends the life of the head and pistons due to the more efficient removal of heat.

Pay special attention to renewing the intermediate shaft bearings.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 07, 2015, 10:36:02 pm
Sadly the head is all built ready to go. I will learn how to port over the years and was told by the machinist for the price to power I will get it is just not worth it and said it's something worth learning myself and he's right. I will order a mls HG recommended by many here and one last question about the goetez rings. If my pistons are 76.988 am I after the 77mm? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1407626
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 07, 2015, 10:39:30 pm
I've been searching Goetez not Goetze...ermg smh
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 07, 2015, 11:00:20 pm
Correct on ring size. However, you can purchase them from Autohausaz for less money than the "scalper" price on Samba. $13 (USD) times 4 plus some freight.

It will be in your benefit to start "tuning out" your machinist's rhetoric. I opened up my first exhaust ports with the valves in the head. I was not able to clean out behind the valves (due to this), but, it sure as he77 made a very noticeable difference in how the engine pulled. You simply flush out the chips with air and gasoline when done. Whatever. Timid is as timid does.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 07, 2015, 11:19:36 pm
I've been searching Goetez not Goetze...ermg smh
Bwahahahahaha.... Next you're going to be looking up Lemon Party.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on February 08, 2015, 06:22:00 am
If your machinist doesn't think you would get the benefit of porting it might be a good time to change machinists. Also, no matter who does the bore the spec is .0012", if he bores it .015 half the life of your engine is gone.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 08, 2015, 09:41:27 am
Yes and seems that I also need to change who builds my next pump. Giles is very nice to talk with but in the end I have no idea what I have for a pump besides it was built for 20psi.. Talking with Alcaid has opened my eyes a lot more. I jumped into something without reading the fine print yes I know and once again learned the hard way. I made the order for rings from Autohausaz thanks for that Dakotakid and others answering. Going to purchase a Holest through Alcaid and my stomach has butterflies already.

So on the paperwork I see "Bore & Hone diesel cylinders +.020''/.50mm" I take that means peas to mud for a actual bore measurement?
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 08, 2015, 10:13:41 am
0.5mm is the first standard oversize for pistons. Did your machinist have the pistons when he did the bore?

And yeah I hear you on the "Bosch secret handshake no we won't tell you what we did" stuff. There have been a few threads on here describing what exactly Giles does with his super pumps - they have a modified governor, there's some machine work to the pump case to allow for more advance, the dynamic advance is tuned for a fairly quiet idle while providing enough advance to give good performance at higher RPMs. Wouldn't be surprised to find out there's changes to the load dependent advance and a few other things too but yeah, I don't get why it has to be a secret. Sure the actual values and methods are proprietary but knowing what was done would be nice.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: burn_your_money on February 08, 2015, 11:43:12 am
It's worth pulling the valves to port it. You'll be kicking yourself if you don't do it while you can easily. Even if you can't pull the valves then pull the cam and install the VC and gasket and port it.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 08, 2015, 07:10:38 pm
In the end the pump will be nice and fresh for another go and hopefully it holds up to the builders name as I have not heard anything negative about Giles pumps as of yet.

Yes the machinist had the pistons from the very start so in theory everything should be correct. If anyone wants to check out the machine shop I chose at all.
http://www.enginebuilder.ca/

Right now the cam is off and no tappets in either. Tappets are brand new so I still have to bleed them which is another new thing to me as well as removing/installing valves and piston rings.
I could make something to press down the springs to pull the valves. I was hoping I could get away with them in but if I don't get all the debris out then :'(

Tonight I will play with the 77 mechanical head so I don't just dive into a fresh head.I have a second set of ARCO pistons exact same size with some broken rings so I will play with those also. I guess it would be a wise choice to buy a extra set or two of rings just in case I really fudge up installing the Goetze rings.   
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 08, 2015, 08:54:40 pm
Here was the first head I worked on. It had the valves in it when I opened up the exhaust ports.
(http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x338/Dakotakid1/Hermosa%20post%202_zpsywfaokk4.jpg)

At that time, I did not venture into working on intakes. And, I was not able to clean the area behind the valves to help with flow. But, just opening up the exhaust holes did wonders for how this engine runs. The only tools I had at the time were two 3/8 inch drills and some crude cutters from Sears. And then I made a crude sandpaper holder to use in a drill by cutting a slot in the end of a small steel shaft.

No, it will never end up in the Smithsonian. But, it sure runs nice. I have now moved into more specialized alum. cutters and a Foredom flexible-shaft power source.

Edit: I really only offer this as encouragement. I mean, you have gone a long way balancing the engine and expensive pump and all that (and, maybe more). After all that "detail work," going one more step seems really logical to me. Just think of all those cv joint cages you can break every time you drop the hammer!
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 09, 2015, 06:12:39 am
yeah if you've done all that work a basic port job following the vizard diy is recommended, with out too much fuss there is a lot to improve upon around the the valve seat and bowl area.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on February 09, 2015, 06:53:04 am
I  think the port job is almost as important as the pump.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 09, 2015, 07:40:24 am
I  think the port job is almost as important as the pump.

also, i think its more important to do down around the valve seat and bowl, than it is to open up where the manifold bolts on, they say the most important parts are 1" before and 1" after the valve seat.  the 1" before doesn't really apply to us since our valves are almost even with the deck, but on gas engines with the combustion chamber in the head its important to clear up any valve shrouding.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 09, 2015, 10:21:35 am
Well you guys talked me into it and I'm going to port my 77 head first just to give it a run :P I have until about mid April to have this project finished for my dd during work season so the itch is bad right now. I just want to get driving and make sure it's 100% ready. I know I know take my time and do it right because if I don't then i'll be back here crying!!!

Sorry for the terms but the part that holds the cam in place is kinda sharp at the very edges. The bottom is fine but the top feels as if it has a little ridge that could score the cam or the cam will eat it since it's of the german steel vs aluminum..

(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_093111.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_093111.jpg.html)

I brought in my mint 91 head and my 86 head and the machinist said save the 91 for later and run my head with the cracks between the valves. I talked to vw, a euro shop, another machinist shop and they all told me this was a common thing on the 1.6 diesels. I have seen it on forums also so I went with the advice and had the 86 head worked. I plan on carrying my 91 head with me and buying the supplies to rebuild it(and port of course) while on days off.

86 TD head and block.
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_092339.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_092339.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_093201.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_093201.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_092640.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_092640.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_092734.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_092734.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/IMG_20141214_134639.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/IMG_20141214_134639.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20141212_201754.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20141212_201754.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_093636.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_093636.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_093625.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_093625.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150209_093243.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150209_093243.jpg.html)



I painted before I decided to do some shaving...

(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20141209_205459.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20141209_205459.jpg.html)


Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 09, 2015, 10:44:14 am
Were there supposed to be some photos showing?

Hey, where the heck is Nanaimo? Is that where Robin Williams was from in "Mork and Mindy?"
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 09, 2015, 02:10:39 pm
I edited the photos so they should be working now. Nanaimo is 120km North of Victoria BC and 25km West over the ocean from Vancouver BC. Gorgeous place but  I think I seen about 100mm of rain before 12 in the afternoon today lol!
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 09, 2015, 03:38:51 pm
I'm constantly watching the weather radar around here and thanking Nanaimo for taking one for the team... 😀

Pictures are working fine now.

The cam caps are usually pretty sharp on the edges but there shouldn't be anything projecting. What did the old cam look like? Is that the original cap?
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 09, 2015, 04:17:16 pm
Original caps yes and the cam has no scoring, chips or pitting unlike my 91 cam which seems almost as it may have met a valve at some point or sat flat to create pitting but only on one lobe?

 The machinist said besides the thrust bearing(s) and the intermediate shaft bearing this engine could have just used some rings, valve guides, and a scrub a dub and it would have been great to go for another 500K by how well I have treated it.

My Jetta has seen 3 owners prior to me and I know the hippy girl that I purchased it from did NOT take care of this car one bit. The first oil change was amazing. The fuel filter was also 2 years past it's replacement date.

The trans(AUG code?!?) is near shot also so I want to find a long geared transmission as I do a lot of very long distance moves from job to job. While I'm at it I should be upgrading my whole clutch and flywheel to 2.0l correct?

Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 09, 2015, 04:38:28 pm
Do you guys buy porting tools over the interwebz or do you have a certain brand for aluminum you would suggest that is easily available in canuckistan stores.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 09, 2015, 04:52:10 pm
You can run an AAZ clutch and flywheel, they seem to have very good holding power.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: burn_your_money on February 09, 2015, 06:15:17 pm
Princess auto has the basics...
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 10, 2015, 09:47:57 am
Vanbc do you have any sources on the mainland for a flywheel? I have searched up and down the island for one in junk yards and nothing.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 10, 2015, 09:53:31 am
Vanbc do you have any sources on the mainland for a flywheel? I have searched up and down the island for one in junk yards and nothing.

it's the same as a gasser flywheel, just make sure you find a 210mm flywheel, and make note of whether it has 1 or 2 dowel pins when ordering your clutch kit.  you may want to order things separately, and get a stronger pp from a 16v (i think i would avoid sachs i have the straps rip alot on their pp's)  ull need a 210mm small spline clutch from something like an 8v gti or scirocco.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 10, 2015, 03:28:07 pm
Vanbc do you have any sources on the mainland for a flywheel? I have searched up and down the island for one in junk yards and nothing.

Not off hand - you should be able to use a gasser flywheel like RabbitJockey mentioned, though it's not going to have the proper timing mark.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: jmaddocks on February 10, 2015, 06:50:59 pm
I used a lightweight Eurospec flywheel (http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/7159) from GAP.  Unfortunately, it looks like their stock is getting low, and the price has gone up considerably. 
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 10, 2015, 07:09:04 pm
Shelbot, the hydraulic camshafts had poor/fairly thin hardened surfaces on their lobes. Seeing pitting or flaking on the lobes is not at all unusual.....unfortunately. They can be run like that, but, you have to "sign-on" to pulling the valve cover every few thousand miles and checking them and deciding WHEN to let it go.

The German solid camshafts, in comparison, were masterpieces. They generally look good even after being run a long time.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 11, 2015, 01:16:57 am
My 86 td cam has no pitting or chips. Even with the head gasket slowly cooking for 27,000km the head wasn't warped. The neglect this car had seen and still very much mechanically sound amazes me. Is this because it's a wolfsburg? :3


My jig and practice head.

(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150210_180540.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150210_180540.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/IMG_20150210_180424.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/IMG_20150210_180424.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150210_202019.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150210_202019.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150210_233815.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150210_233815.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/20150210_233446.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/20150210_233446.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on February 11, 2015, 07:14:55 am
They sell flywheels in autohausaz for around 100.00 new
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 11, 2015, 12:14:30 pm
One auto wrecker has a 210mm gasser but they are asking $175 and it's about 100km away from me. New for $100 sounds better! :3

Woot!


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/IMG_20150211_113421.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/IMG_20150211_113421.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 11, 2015, 12:54:36 pm
yeah, and bfi sells a whole clutch kit with a lightened flywheel.  i had an aaz wheel, i had it resurfaced and lightned and that cost 150
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: burn_your_money on February 11, 2015, 01:27:46 pm
Call Giles about the flywheel, I think he has a few. If not, try Hasan (http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?243852-B3VW-Hasan) on vwvortex, he should have some.

On porting the exhaust ports, some people say to leave a step on them where it meets the manifold. You may want to do some reading on that.

You may want to consider putting a few layers of duct tape on the valve seat just in case something slips when you are porting.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 11, 2015, 01:49:29 pm
Much thanks!

 I'm going to run the AUG I have for now sadly until I can build a transmission with a longer gear ratio. I'm guessing the trans in my car was a swap or just another weird franken that came from wolfsburg.

It's getting tired and I dislike how high the rpm's are at around 90km/h. Plus the speedo is out by 10~km/h so for a few weeks I was really pissing people off by accident. I was thinking the same to everyone riding me xD.


What code are you guys running for a swap?
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 11, 2015, 09:45:41 pm

On porting the exhaust ports, some people say to leave a step on them where it meets the manifold. You may want to do some reading on that.




Sorry I looked around and could not find anything about stepping the exhaust port. I can picture it but reading the theory for it would be nice. I was going to leave the exhaust ports about 2mm smaller than the exhaust gasket. At about 3/16 deep I will start to taper.

 So basically right now I'm going as deep as I can on my 91 head until I feel it's open enough or hit a water jacket and learn not to go that far.

 I'll admit I'm puter illiterate like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys and even going over the Porting FAQ confused me a bit. The diagrams, writing and my brain don't work that way sometimes and I have to watch multiple videos and pictures of how to cut in the bowls and ports to understand the do's and dont's.

I'm sure some of you know the Red Green show saying ;)

(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/tartar.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/tartar.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 12, 2015, 05:32:31 am
i wouldn't worry about the step, i'd think that just adds turbulence, and i think the idea of leaving a step is to help keep the gasses from reversing back into the engine, but diesels hardly have any valve over lap, so by the time the piston is going back down for the intake stroke the exhaust valve is closed.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 12, 2015, 01:49:48 pm
Cool then I'll open it right up :)


How does this look to you guys so far?


   1991 head
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005729.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005729.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005832.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005832.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005842.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005842.jpg.html)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005856.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150212_005856.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 13, 2015, 06:07:29 am
looks great, the important parts are hard to photograph tho
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 13, 2015, 07:14:45 am
Use common sense and DO NOT remove any aluminum material directly behind the anchoring area of the valve seat. You do not want to do anything which will encourage/cause a "dislodge" of that seat. The one photo has be a bit concerned....to be honest.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 13, 2015, 08:09:38 am
Use common sense and DO NOT remove any aluminum material directly behind the anchoring area of the valve seat. You do not want to do anything which will encourage/cause a "dislodge" of that seat. The one photo has be a bit concerned....to be honest.

right, i made mine even with the valve seat, but you also need to keep the port offset from the set, it is intentionally offset to encourage even flow around the valve.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 13, 2015, 09:51:15 am
Roger. Will not go behind valve stem. This is why I leave *** alone lol.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 13, 2015, 09:55:07 am
I'll just open the ports by the gasket and leave everything else alone near the stem/bowl.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 13, 2015, 12:58:50 pm
I'll just open the ports by the gasket and leave everything else alone near the stem/bowl.

it's ok to open it up around the stem and bowl, and take the harshness out of the radius of the turn, especially in the exhaust ports, u just don't want to go hogging everything out though.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 13, 2015, 04:17:46 pm
Ok thanks. I got scared I wrecked a good head. I haven't cut anything extra from around the seats just 220 grit right up to it. Thanks all and I'll keep truckin.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 13, 2015, 07:40:49 pm
Yeah, just think of the valve seat as a tooth in your head.....and think of the gumline behind that tooth (in your head) as being the same as the aluminum directly behind/under that circular valve seat.

No way in heck would you take out a knife and whittle on your gum......don't do it on that anchoring aluminum either!
(I like analogies.....would you like to hear some about women?.....probably not!)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 14, 2015, 09:26:01 am
Thanks Dakota!

I'm sure you could save me a few years of aches and pains in the Womanology Department of Science  ;)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 18, 2015, 08:18:34 am
shhidiot proofing..


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150214_194629.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150214_194629.jpg.html)


Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: burn_your_money on February 18, 2015, 11:12:41 am
Smart
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 20, 2015, 08:44:46 am
220 grit :)


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150219_224429.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150219_224429.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 20, 2015, 11:30:26 am
I thought ALL of these "presentations" were of the same model.......THEN, I saw the valve guide.........
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 20, 2015, 04:17:09 pm
The head I went canadian ham on was the 77. The 91 head I just went around the bowls. The pic where the head is taped like a bomb to now is the 86 head original to my block that is surfaced and valves already ground. Did I go to ham on the guides? If so it's the rotary in me taking over trying to peripheral port ffs :/ 
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 21, 2015, 06:13:06 pm
What I ended up with.


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/10974418_10155275672765512_2117429839024164331_o.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/10974418_10155275672765512_2117429839024164331_o.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 21, 2015, 09:05:18 pm
Looks good! I wish I'd spent some time and ported my head on my AHU before I sent it in to get it overhauled.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 22, 2015, 06:37:53 pm
Thanks!

I have now 100% made my choice that Thompson Auto Machining in Nanaimo BC is horrible. I'm new to piston engine rebuilding as this is my first so everything is a learning process so far.

I want to know when you guy have a rotating assembly balance would that be crank and rods or just crank?

When you have a "basic" valve grind would they lap the valves for you before throwing the head together?

My valves also felt tight to me and one intake was gritty feeling on the way out at the end possibly from debris I imagine.. I'm going by what my uncle says and they are feeling like they did no hone the new guides properly.

I remember asking the machinist about arp's in my rod's and mains when I was getting the block built and he said they are not worth it and reusing stock bolts is nothing to worry about but not what the manual says and some posts show what a failure looks like :(

I have to pull the rods out to replace rings anyways so the mains and everything come apart again of course and I get to figure out how to install all these bearings that I already paid to be installed -.-

Lessons learned yes and I should have done my research/bought a bentley before doing a rebuild but I still say some bad advice was given and work was done and I'm no rocket applientist.

I'm lost for words on my build. I know adding money up doesn't mean anything but at this price I would be half paid off a 2014 vw. Saving a old school is painful I guess but man. Just mannn.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 23, 2015, 01:31:42 pm
Thanks!

I have now 100% made my choice that Thompson Auto Machining in Nanaimo BC is horrible. I'm new to piston engine rebuilding as this is my first so everything is a learning process so far.

I want to know when you guy have a rotating assembly balance would that be crank and rods or just crank?

When you have a "basic" valve grind would they lap the valves for you before throwing the head together?

My valves also felt tight to me and one intake was gritty feeling on the way out at the end possibly from debris I imagine.. I'm going by what my uncle says and they are feeling like they did no hone the new guides properly.

I remember asking the machinist about arp's in my rod's and mains when I was getting the block built and he said they are not worth it and reusing stock bolts is nothing to worry about but not what the manual says and some posts show what a failure looks like :(

I have to pull the rods out to replace rings anyways so the mains and everything come apart again of course and I get to figure out how to install all these bearings that I already paid to be installed -.-

Lessons learned yes and I should have done my research/bought a bentley before doing a rebuild but I still say some bad advice was given and work was done and I'm no rocket applientist.

I'm lost for words on my build. I know adding money up doesn't mean anything but at this price I would be half paid off a 2014 vw. Saving a old school is painful I guess but man. Just mannn.


i've seen lots of rod bolts being reused, they are stretch bolts and 1 time use though,  oem bolts and arp are about the same price too which is good.  might as well polish the rods while they're out ;^P
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 23, 2015, 06:43:12 pm
Yeah the mains are absolutely not to be reused. They aren't super expensive either way you go. Rod bolts seem to be debatable depending on the engine, I don't think they were TTY on the early engines but they definitely were by the AAZ for instance. But yeah after spending all the money on the rebuild it makes no sense to cheap out on fasteners.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 24, 2015, 10:06:54 am
Thank you guys I really really wish I just recorded my phone call with the machinist about 5 minutes ago. No kidding I swear he was fighting me over the phone and literally shadow boxing angry sounding in the voice.

He said everyone on the forums are idiots(bad words) and have no clue to what they are talking about. I switched conversation to the valve guides being very tight in a few and gritty on one especially. All he said was bring it in for a sample to be assayed and went dead silent. I've already cleaned them out obviously so I just can't be bothered with him anymore.

I'm just going to go to the other machinist and have all valve guides worked over for 100$ and he said it's worth the 3 angle grind. I already like this guy a lot more.

I would rather have new hardware for sure over any catastrophic failure.

I know what I can and can't install myself now and let's say i'll be saving a lot next build! :)


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_094013.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_094013.jpg.html)


(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_093927.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150224_093927.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 24, 2015, 01:49:12 pm
it's hard to find a good machinist.  a lot of them are so cocky or not willing to do stuff as you ask because they are so set in their ways.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on February 24, 2015, 07:44:39 pm
Yeah lots of people have gotten away with a sub optimal build and ended up with a running engine. But lots have ended up with something less than ideal which lasts 1/10 what a factory engine would have too. Fact is not a lot of people actually put a couple hundred thousand kms on a rebuilt engine before the body rots away, especially somewhere like Nanaimo where you can only drive so far before you hit water. That guy can have 50 happy customers who never got more than 50,000 km on one of his rebuilds due to geography,helps build false confidence big time.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 25, 2015, 09:27:36 am
Rabbit I totally agree. The guy at Thompson is quite a bit older and obviously dead set in his own ways even a manual or a VW technician of 30 years isn't right according to him so I will never talk to them again.

Island D Machine is a younger guy and very forward about the process of everything. They also don't do basic valve grinds he was saying. Nothing under a 3 angle from them. Oh boy am I kicking myself hard.


I also see the point of rusting out bodies. I know lot's of people who did a full engine build and are looking for new frames, bodies ect to swap the engine lol.

This guy right here went ham of course and after a little patch today the body is RUST FREE!!!!!!

I saved one for the team!
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 25, 2015, 09:53:18 am
Yeah lots of people have gotten away with a sub optimal build and ended up with a running engine. But lots have ended up with something less than ideal which lasts 1/10 what a factory engine would have too. Fact is not a lot of people actually put a couple hundred thousand kms on a rebuilt engine before the body rots away, especially somewhere like Nanaimo where you can only drive so far before you hit water. That guy can have 50 happy customers who never got more than 50,000 km on one of his rebuilds due to geography,helps build false confidence big time.

that is great point to make, just because you made it run doesn't mean you did it right, or that a service manual is wrong.  it is that same attitude that has caused some many vw diesels to be drive around with out being properly timed, or to have the wrong headgasket installed.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 25, 2015, 12:05:26 pm
I do have a friend who knows all about timing these so I will learn hands on from a reliable guy which gives me a HUGE relief! Last time I asked for a few parts he only wanted a 6 pack lol :) I love how the community is and always helpful and I want thank you guys again for all the help and being so kind about everything!

I think many of the rotary community would want to shoot me but every time I look at my Rx2 I want to just throw a aaz in it. I think next winter will be some fun ;)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on February 25, 2015, 05:16:05 pm
Well, I certainly hope he also knows how NOT to run a cam belt too tightly, as he has the "ability" to destroy much of your painstaking work.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: srgtlord on February 26, 2015, 07:10:49 am
Yes, it is certainly too easy to run the belt too tight unless you have the tension gauge
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on February 26, 2015, 08:56:07 am
Yeah I've realized that when I had my timing belt done by Speedy Auto they were most likely the cause of some issues. I never mentioned them I don't think. Well their is a HUGE reason not to go to them.

The owner of Speedy lied to my face saying when I have my timing belt done I would have my pump timed which never happened. When I went to pick my car up it ran rough like it was miss firing and the guy who worked on it said "wow it really rips hey" and I flipped saying you better not have just ragged on it which he obviously did. At the time I had no friends to help do timing, no tools and scared more than you would imagine to wreck my already dying engine and I knew it was near the grave already.

 I ran it around town for a few hours and everything cleared up so maybe they took fuel lines off and at the time could have been air. I had plans to get it timed by Bavarian but I was offered a new job up north money was very tight and I put my car to the back of my brain from that point and went to work. The whole time at my new job the car didn't give me one issue so I made my own decision that the timing was fine and the operating temp must be normal if I wasn't flashing any lights.. I know.

Oh but I was running hot and how hot I will never know. Yes I was also a idiot who turned up the fuel to melt down temps with no IC.. The things I look back at and smack myself over..
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on February 26, 2015, 09:37:16 am
Yeah I've realized that when I had my timing belt done by Speedy Auto they were most likely the cause of some issues. I never mentioned them I don't think. Well their is a HUGE reason not to go to them.

The owner of Speedy lied to my face saying when I have my timing belt done I would have my pump timed which never happened. When I went to pick my car up it ran rough like it was miss firing and the guy who worked on it said "wow it really rips hey" and I flipped saying you better not have just ragged on it which he obviously did. At the time I had no friends to help do timing, no tools and scared more than you would imagine to wreck my already dying engine and I knew it was near the grave already.

 I ran it around town for a few hours and everything cleared up so maybe they took fuel lines off and at the time could have been air. I had plans to get it timed by Bavarian but I was offered a new job up north money was very tight and I put my car to the back of my brain from that point and went to work. The whole time at my new job the car didn't give me one issue so I made my own decision that the timing was fine and the operating temp must be normal if I wasn't flashing any lights.. I know.

Oh but I was running hot and how hot I will never know. Yes I was also a idiot who turned up the fuel to melt down temps with no IC.. The things I look back at and smack myself over..

you've learned from your mistakes, nothing to fret upon
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on March 04, 2015, 04:31:12 pm
So I just talked to two vw technicians. According to them the rod and mains are 100% fine to be reused. Failures only happen from improper torque is what I was told by both.

I've said it before I trust you bunch of crazy diesel nuts and I have all new ARP hardware right beside me to go in but just hearing that is something else that makes you wander in circles a bit hoping maybe a money tree grows magically flossing hundreds at you.

I'm curious if any of you here are a certified technician that can say these vw technicians are 100% wrong? If they are both 25+ year certified vw technicians and foreman's you would think that they wouldn't both lie to me but this isn't a world of truth anymore I've realized over the years.

Thanks guys my chin is up and giving it my all over the next few weeks! 
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on March 05, 2015, 06:47:28 am
Just check the Bentley manual. Some were reusable some not. If the mains were fully threaded with no shoulder they are not reusable. The rod bolts had oval heads or round heads, I cannot remember which is which, but one is reusable one is not. OR anything that you torque to x value and add 1/4 turn is not reusable.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on March 05, 2015, 08:44:27 am
They appear to be round rod bolts and the mains are looking to be full thread no shoulder. Today everything goes back to the machine shop :D
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on March 06, 2015, 09:53:45 am
Machine shop called me this morning to tell my all my intake guides were broken and fractured. I'm going in to take pictures right now. WHY ME LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also removing my rods yesterday the whole crank seems very tight and almost wants to bind it fells like. Oh boy.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on March 13, 2015, 01:08:26 pm
As expected time ran out so I'm going to put my engine aside and grab my uncles 92 jetta with a rebuilt 88 1.6td. Will be doing a part out of my 86 jetta in October/November.


Thompson Machine in Nanaimo said to never call back after I asked kindly how they possibly did such a bad job on the guides and valve grind.


Quality work right?

(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n570/shelbot/11058400_10155356089700512_1550406780394724797_n.jpg) (http://s1140.photobucket.com/user/shelbot/media/11058400_10155356089700512_1550406780394724797_n.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: vanbcguy on March 13, 2015, 03:29:27 pm
Holy crap. That's terrible.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: theman53 on March 13, 2015, 04:17:20 pm
It probably would have been better to not have them replaced if that is what they do...I am only a nice guy online and they obviously would have met me if I dropped my stuff off, so I probably would have said "ok, I will be down shortly."
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: Dakotakid on March 13, 2015, 04:26:06 pm
I would be very concerned that this head is now internally cracked and no longer viable. Too much pressure was applied.
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: RabbitJockey on March 16, 2015, 10:25:43 am
geez did they ream it out with a punch and mallet?  wtf
Title: Re: 1.6l td needs turbo, mls hg, possible pistons :S
Post by: shelbot on March 17, 2015, 01:56:58 pm
nice $1000 wasted.