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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: beerboyone on March 29, 2006, 10:59:57 am
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I just picked up a '81 rabbit LS NA 1.6. It starts rough and shakes like a bastard until it warms up, then it just has a minor shake. The mechanical choke doesn't make any differance at all(yes it is actually moving the choke on the injector pump). It smokes a good bit until it's warm. does this sound like a timing issue or is it time for a new pump?
TIA,
Pat
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Sounds like a block with a lot miles issue to me. How much oil does it burn? The symptons you describe resemble mine. I have 200,000 miles on my NA block. Mine burns a quart of oil per tank (sometimes more depending on how i drive it) , I get between 30-35 mpg. My pump timing is set to 1.00mm. I am going to re-ring the pistons this weekend, ill tell ya how it turns out...
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mine got 198,000 on it. i just got it and haven't even been through a gallon of diesel yet so i'm not sure how much oil it's going through. I need to get my other rabbit running before I can do a tear down on this to replace rings. thanks for the input.
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Can you isolate it to a single cylinder ? Crank the injector line loose one at a time while noting the RPM drop.When you find yoi dead cylinder,the RPM will not drop.
Compression test would be the next step,as well as leakdown testing to determine the cause if compression is low.
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One quick test that I always do and you can do it on the fly is idling it and puting your hand in front of the tail pipe. Can you feel a dead spot in the air or is is a complete steady purr. That'll tell you whether your shake is a mis-fire or not. If not then the shaking could just be a broken motor mount. I think you need to first determine what it's shaking from, then you'll find your culprit.
Welcome to the world of newbie diesel ownership. I'm on my 3rd month now.
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i'll go ahead and cancel the appointment I had for friday to have the injection timing checked. thanks. I'll try and determine if it's a dead cylinder.
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So i haven't been able to check compression yet but the problems have gotten worse. I was trying to track down an oil leak so I removed the upper timing cover and the airbox. sprayed a little brake clean around to clean up some leaking oil and put everything back together. I had a lot of problems starting her. I cranked and cranked and it just wouldn't start. There was some combustion as there was some smoke. but it would not run. So I had my roommate pull my car down the road and I started it that way. But it ran really rough and the idle didn't smooth out at all when it warmed up. It also smoked when reved after it warmed up which is something it didn't do before. this is my game plan to figure out the problem if there is anything I should be doing different please tell me as I am new to diesels.
1. crack injectors and observe idle changes.
2. check injector condition.
3. leakdown test.
thanks.
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Sounds like your on the right track.Finding the bad cylinder is the first thing to do.
Then you have to narrow it down between an injection problem,or an internal engine problem.A compression or leakdown test will do that.
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where should I crack the injector line, at the injector or at the pump?
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i'd do it at the injector.
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Crack them at the injector.
Loosen them all off first,then just lightly snug them back down.This way you won't have to fight with loosening them over a running enigne.Watch the little return nipples too,they are easy to bend or break with a wrench if your not careful.
Wear gloves and eye protection.Pressurized diesel is dnagerous.As long as you don't crack them too far,it won't come spraying out at you.
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Is the PCV valve on the valve cover on these cars. I can't even recall. It seems coincidental that he pulled off the valve cover and the problems got worse.
Are you sure the PCV valve isn't clogged?
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So I just got home from work and tried to start it up and it wouldn't run. So i opened the hood to look around and get a plan of attack and I looked at the fuel line and there is a lot of air in it. This wasn't the case last night. I guess I'll search around to figure out how to bleed the line and see if that helps. if not it's more than likely a bad injector pump right?
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If you have air in the line,it could be a plugged filter,a loose line,or the return fitting on the filter sucking air.
Check all the clamps,even the factory crimp ones,make sure everything is tight.Replace the filter,to eliminate it and the return fitting o-ring.
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it looks like the return line might be leaking right off the pump. Can I replace this with rubber fuel line? does it need to be high pressure line?
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Regular line is fine,there is little or no pressure in the return.I would use 30R9 rated fuel line (for fuel injection),as it tends to last longer and not break down as easily.A lot of the cheap fuel line will go soft and leak fairly quickly.It is more expensive,but because you need so little,it won't cost much more.
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could that line cause this problem? does that cause problems with the pump or the injectors? Thanks for all the help so far wyldman, you are an asset to this forum.
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Any air in the return lines will end up back in the filter,causing air the the inlet line.
Just replace the filter,and bad lines,and make sure all the clamps are tight.You can then proceed with your diagnosis.
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ok, so i replaced the return line, it did need it. and replaced the fuel filter. It started up. then i cracked the injectors and all of them dropped the idle. the coolant is heating up quite quickly. quicker than any gas car i've ever driven. and this was at idle. also when reved it bellows black smoke. seems to me that it may be the head gasket. anything I can do to check this other than drain the oil and see if there is coolant in it?
also I am going to replace all the return lines from the injectors. what size are these? vac line won't hold up to the diesel will it?
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There is a special braided rubber line for the return lines.Your VW dealer or good parts store should have it.They usually sell it in long lengths,more than enough to do the entire job.
Sounds like the miss may have been due to air in the lines.
Change the oil and get everything sorted out first.Make sure you have fresh diesel in the tank,and then proceed to run it to diagnose further.Maybe it just needs a good run.
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the only reason I thought head gasket is because how quickly the upper rad hose got hot. I guess i'll try to hunt down some line for it tomorrow. thanks again. i'll keep you updated.
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Water in crank case is easy to see. After running the motor a bit the oil will appear milky and or sudsy. The oil and water do not mix well and will mix as a milky froth that settles down after a long sit.
I had a plugged fuel filter cause some problems similar, but the main problem was timing. After getting the timing right the motor is much quieter and smoother. Air leaks are found by cracking the fuel lines at the injectors. If the leak is before the IP this test will not work.
Bad head gaskets normally will show water in case or bubbles in coolant system.
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iknow this isnt the problem,,but if you ever arent sure if oil is milky from antifreeze,,or lots of condensation,just taste it!! :D ,if its antifreeze,and you are runnin antifreeze,its sweet,and who says you cant taste your car???just dont do it alot,it may cause brain damage(i can hear the jokes now,,)
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iknow this isnt the problem,,but if you ever arent sure if oil is milky from antifreeze,,or lots of condensation,just taste it!! :D ,if its antifreeze,and you are runnin antifreeze,its sweet,and who says you cant taste your car???just dont do it alot,it may cause brain damage(i can hear the jokes now,,)
Wow that's the first time I've heard that one. Maybe it's not your keyboard that's broken :lol:
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He sure opened the door for that one,didn't he ? ;)
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OK I would say do not do the hillbilly thang. If it's milky it won't lubricate. Who cares if it is condensation( a whole lot of it too) or a bad head gasket.
Change the milky oil, change the head gasket.
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i replaced all the injector return lines. it started up pretty quickly. seemed to run a little bit better(not much). It still has no power and smokes bad. it looks like one of the injector may have a leak at the base. etka shows a "sealing washer" at the bottom of the injector part no. 068130219, do these tend to go bad??
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Yes they can but they have to be really really bad to run as bad as you're making it sound. You'll have to purchase a new set of these if you're planning on pulling the injectors out for re-installing. However this won't be your issue. A leaky injector would more show that their is back pressure on the line which could suggest that you have a clogged injector or a clogged return line, or something's sucking air. I can't remember, did you crack each of the injectors yet to see if you're idle dropped even more? If not try that. You can also hold a scredriver to the top of the injector base and put your ear up to the other end of the screwdriver. You should be able to hear a clicking in each injector suggesting that their firing. If one sounds different than the others than you may have found your culprit.
I ran a can of good quality diesel injector cleaner through my last tank and that cleaned up alot of leaks by cleaning the injectors and thus creating less back pressure on the line.
Couldn't hurt to try that.
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If it's milky it won't lubricate. Who cares if it is condensation( a whole lot of it too) or a bad head gasket.
I would care, when I find milky oil I want to know why its milky, not just change it. So, yes hillfok'r aint the only one to have done this.
Its usually wishful thinking anyway, it always is coolant in the oil if its a running engine. Here in western canada, engines stored under cover outside will fill with condensation over a couple decades, but rings are generally siezed into bores long before much accumulates in sump.
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I did crack all the injectors and there was a considerable drop in rpm for each injector. My fuel tank has a leak, I checked to see if it was around the lines but it didn't look to be.
also i forgot to add that it started up fine when the engine was cold but after it had warmed up it would start again.
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the teachers in tech school told us that one back in the day,taste test,,,, i been goin back to my posts and fixing my spaces ,when time allows,,,,,,if you think an injector is leaking around the threads,cause of messed up heat shield or somethin,,just like a flat tire,,get a spray bottle of soapy water,,bubbles are bad :D
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I did crack all the injectors and there was a considerable drop in rpm for each injector. My fuel tank has a leak, I checked to see if it was around the lines but it didn't look to be.
also i forgot to add that it started up fine when the engine was cold but after it had warmed up it would start again.
.....Is there a typo in that last line?
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I did crack all the injectors and there was a considerable drop in rpm for each injector. My fuel tank has a leak, I checked to see if it was around the lines but it didn't look to be.
also i forgot to add that it started up fine when the engine was cold but after it had warmed up it would start again.
.....Is there a typo in that last line?
yes there is, i'm a retard. it wouldn't start again.
but i got a new tank today and am going to put it in tomorrow.
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I put a new fuel tank in. didn't help the problem but I did create a good brake leak.
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I figured I would check the injection timing so i bought the tools. So I took off the valve cover and took the plug out of the trans and set the fly wheel to TDC and I noticed the slot in the end of the cam wasn't parallel to the head and I checked the pump and that wasn't on mark either. so I pulled the belt lined everything up then checked the pump timing and it was in spec. (.038 inches) put everything back togther and it started right up and ran great.thanks again for all the hlp.
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Gotta love those no parts needed repairs!
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Gotta love those no parts needed repairs!
yeah, except the 80 I spent on the timing tools. but I am sure I'll get more use from them.