VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: twopeanuts on March 27, 2006, 08:35:59 am
-
I drove my 82 rabbit all weekend, even went up to the mountains, etc...
Drove and shifted great the entire time.
Then I get in this morning to go to work, it cranks fine, but doesn't go anywhere. The stick feels normal - feels like its going into reverse and first etc... But when I let off the clutch - nothing - no grinding - no drive. So I fiddle with it for a minute, and I get reverse - so I back out - and then it doesn't want to go foward. So I fiddle with it - shifting in and out of 1st, 2nd etc... and finally I get first gear and out the driveway. I make it 5 miles or so and it's like it goes into neutral (no popping or grinding) only the stick is still in gear. Ended up calling a neighbor and had them gently push me back home from behind using their car (didn't have a tow strap).
The linkages all looked connected. I can't visually see any problems. The clutch pedal feels normal going down and up. The stick feels normal when moving into and out of gear. But I'm not moving anywhere.
Ideas?
Thanks,
-Scott
-
Either the clutch is gone\going,or you have an internal trans problem.
One quick test to check the clutch..........Start car,with the gearbox in neutral,clutch released.Try to put it in reverse quickly without using the clutch (foot hard on brake,ebrake on,ready to kill engine just in case),and see if it grinds.If it does,then the clutch is transfering power to the trans.
-
ok - it tried throwing it into reverse a couple of times, it did grind once and once it went into gear and killed the engine
so I started poking around some more - saw how the the clutch lever gets moved up and down, and how to adust the cable etc...
and noticed a plastic plug on top, pulled on it and it popped out - the plug is bone dry and sticking my finger in as far it will go everything feels dry
any chance it could just be a fluid issue? how do you check the fluid level, how full do you fill it, where can you get the fluid (any chance Autozone carries it?) etc..?
Thanks!
-Scott
-
Sounds like you found the timing plug.DO NOT put fluid in there.
I doubt it's a fluid issue,a manual trans doesn't need fluid to transfer power,only for lubrication.
If it grinds going into reverse,then the clutch is transferring power.Maybe you broke a CV joint ? or something in the final drive in the trans ?
-
Finally found the right section in the Bently manual - it says that plug is for checking and adding hypoid gear fluid - that when you pull it out that the bottom of the plug should be wet and if you stick your finger in the hole you should feel fluid right below the case opening. Sounds to me like the right hole. If I stare down in to it I see dry metal and sticking my finger a good ways down in there I feel absolutely no fluid.
Found some 75w-90 fluid labled for hypoid gear use at a local Autozone. I'm going to fill it in the morning and see if it fixes anything. If not - I'm just going to pull the transmission out and take it to a local shop for a rebuild / clutch replacement / or whatever.
You've got me a little scared to try it now - but oh well - I've got so little money in it if I need a transmission rebuild after my first two weeks and about a thousand miles (averaging 53mpq with a constantly dripping fuel tank) than oh well - no love lost. I do have a transmission jack new in the box I've never used.
I'll post the results later tomorrow.
-
Fill plug is on the drivers side of the trans,not the top.
If you put fluid in the timing hole,you won't go anywhere,as the clutch will be soaked in gear oil.
Don't worry about fluid yet,it will not make a difference.Why waste good fluid if the trans is no good ?
Do a little more investigating first.Check the driveshafts\CV joints to see if one is broken.
-
Doh!
There's even a picture in the Bently that shows the filler hole on the driver's side. I don't know how I got that confused with a plasitc cap on the top. Thanks for pointing that out!
I had taken it to a garage (well - to a mechanic friend that works at a mostly tire sales shop...) when I got it two weeks ago to have them check it out - since I couldn't even find the oil dipstick and knew nothing about diesels. They replaced all the brakes and wheel cylinders, and said one of the driveshafts had been replaced but the other one was falling apart. So I had them go ahead and replace it. I haven't actually looked to see what was done yet - just been covered up with work. All together it was about $470 worth of labour and parts. Maybe they messed something up doing the replacement. I remember seeing a remanufactured driveshaft and a CV joint on the parts listing on the bill. Or maybe one of the parts was bad. Or maybe they didn't top off the fluid after the driveshaft replacement. Or or or...
Its stuff like this that really makes me want to learn to work on it myself.
Anyway - thanks again! I won't be poring fluid down the timing hole in the morning.
-
Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
-
Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
I thought posi-trac was some brand name for a limited slip differential that WOULD transfer power to the one wheel with traction? Any normal differential will only send power to the wheel without traction, right?
-
Again being a newbie to the VW's, on all other cars that I've owned if you only have traction on one wheel but not the other, the one with traction will not turn. It's called posi-trac. The CV joints would be a good guess, if one's not working, then the other isn't either by default.
I thought posi-trac was some brand name for a limited slip differential that WOULD transfer power to the one wheel with traction? Any normal differential will only send power to the wheel without traction, right?
That is correct.
With an open differential,once one wheel slips,the other can do nothing,and you don't move.If you break a CV,then that side shaft will just spin,and the car will not move.
-
been sick - finally got enough energy to crawl under and look
it was the passenger side driveshaft that was replaced - looks like new CVs on each end - grabbing the shaft and pushing, the wheel cv end is tight, but I can move the inboard end up and down about a quarter of an inch grasping the shaft in front of the inboard CV
looking down from the top - driver side cv is flush to the transaxle but the passenger side CV (where I felt the looseness underneith) is sticking out about an inch and showing shinny smooth steel between the CV and transaxle which doesn't look right:
?(http://www.twopeanuts.com/images/03-31-06_1240.jpg)
does this sound like something that just needs torqued down to tighten up or does it sould more like I need to replace the inboard CV (again - this time myself) on the passenger side
-
Sounds like the inboard CV has come loose from the drive flange,common if the bolts aren't real tight.
When it comes loose.the CV slides apart,and will not transmit power.
I'd tighten it back up,or take it to the shop who did it,and have them do it.Make sure they are aware of what happened if you do it yourslef,as there may be damage to the inner CV joint,which they should take care of.
-
from the picture, it looks more like the drive flange is coming out of the trans.
-
It should just be held in there be pressure from the whole system shouldn't it? The last car I changed a CV joint on was held there by the steering knuckle being attached to the lower control arm. This just held it in. Try pushing it back into the trans and you should get somekind of click from the circlip settling into place. Do VW's even have a circlip on the end of the shaft? Man I have so much to learn about VW's.
-
No,no circlip.They bolt into the drive axle flanges on the transaxle.They will move out just enough to let the joint disengage.
-
On the driver's side there is no gap like in the pic of the passenger's side CV to drive flange area.
I'll try torqueing the CV to drive flange bolts(Bently: 33lbs) first and see if that works.
I don't guess there's anyway to tighten that drive flange back into the transmission? I didn't see anything scanning my book - so I'm guessing if that's the problem I'm looking at a trans rebuild?
(Thanks for all the help!)
-
Hmmm.....strange..........pic didn't show up for me until now.Oh well,at least now it's easy to diagnose.
Yes,the drive flange is coming out of the trans,and that is your problem.No need to tighten the bolts,that's not the problem.
The circlip must have popped out.You will need to remove the shaft,and use a flange tool (to compress the spring behind it),and then replace the clip.I wouldn't reuse the old clip,as it may be weak or worn,and that's why it popped out.You may also want to remove the flange,and check for damage to the splines.It can usually be touched up with a small chain file so it slides together nicley.You may want to replace the spring too,it may be weak.
-
link to a flange re & re :
http://www.thediygroup.com/020flange.htm
-
Did you ever fix this?
-
I was going to try it myself but haven't had the time so decided to go ahead and pay a shop. I'm about to be relocated to another state for work and things are too busy for do it myself stuff right now - so had tbe rabbit towed Thursday to a transmission shop up the road that said they could fix it - hoping they can get to it next week as gas for my 72 impala is ridiculous compared to driving the rabbit!
-
update:
The transmission shop finally got to looking at it today, then called me to tell me that they'd been fighting with it for the last hour, can't get the outside clip to hold it, that its the inside clip that needs replaced, so they need to pull the transmission out and crack the case open to get in there to replace the inside clip, which will be at least 600, and I can come and they can show me what they mean on another vw transmission they pulled a few years ago...
So I said to hold on for that much money I'd expect more like a full rebuild, and that I'd stop by tomorrow to see what he's talking about - and that I've got the bently book and it only shows one clip and you get to it from the outside middle of the drive flange...
I'm taking the Bently and a print out of that DIY link above with me tomorrow and offer it as help for doing the job without requiring a pull or opening the case.
Any idea what he might be talking about as far as an "inside clip"?
Is there a clip holding in the drive axle (that the drive flange is clipped onto)?
-
There generally is on other manufacturers cars a circlip on the shaft at the end of it (in the tranny) but it doesn't require pulling the whole tranny. You gnerally pop the shaft out, put a new clip on and put it back in until it snaps in place. But the last time I did it was on a Ford.
-
I'm fixed - for now - drove 45 miles to work this morning fine.
I stopped by the shop this morning to drop off the Bently and DIY printout and to see what they were talking about as far as an inside clip. He had the parts out of the other vw transmission and showed me where there is a squared off clip that connects the shaft on the inside - and said that on mine the shaft itself was coming out so that pin must have broken and was probably chewed up by the gears there and hopefully the metal from that was on the magent now and wouldn't cause any more damage.
Then he went on to say after they talked to me yesterday afternoon the mechanic kept messing with it and found a way to get that inside clip in from the outside, and had fabricated one out of a part from another trans, but had to file it and taper it to get it in from the outside. Then put it all back together. Drove a few miles. He said it would probably hold - and if it was his he would try driving it like that - but there is a chance that it won't hold or the clip they made may break etc... and if I really wanted to trust it that it would be better to have them pull the trans and open it up and replace the inside clip the correct way with a real replacement clip...
Seemed kinda song and dance like to me - like maybe they just reused the old outside flange clip, weren't sure if it would, or maybe were trying to get an upsell for a rebuild - but when I only got charged $45 and was able to drive to work in it - well, I dunno - I'm happy till I'm stranded anyway :)
-
I think you're good to go. Remember this clip really isn't taking the stress, it's the splines (?) on the shaft. That clip is just guiding it, it's not even guiding, it's just .....it's just...well, you know.
-
Also keep in mind, for that $600, you can get 2 used trannys day in day out.