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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: FrankenDiesel on August 04, 2014, 06:47:10 pm
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I swapped a. 1.6td into a mk1 cabrio. The car was starting fine. I had replaced all feed/return lines and removed the pump from the sending unit and used fuel line as the pickup.
Last night it was hard starting, long cranks with sputters as if the glow plugs werent working. I got it to run, and parked it .
Today, i tried starting and shortly after noticed my fuel filter was packed with this jell looking stuff almost like big sugar bits. I removed this, and tried starting eith a jerry can . It barely started and then idled rough, adventually shutting off.
I cannot get the car to run now. I force fed diesel into the ip. I have. 12 v at the diesel shutoff switch key on. With lines cracked, at the injectors, all lines seep but cyl 3. They seem very air raided.
Any ideas? Did my ip get gummed or just air bound from cranking with a clogged filter?
Tomorrow i will be cranking the car with shutoff valve closed to get pump primed, then shutoff open and recracking the lines again.
Ps anyone in nj with a good cabrio tank pm me.
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Those Mk. I steel tanks were a real nightmare as the water accumulates over time. And, I suspect this one that you converted sat unused for a long while...right? I have seen so many of these cars water accumulate and internally rust. And, the rust particles would pass right through the Bosch fuel filters and destroy the gas fuel inj. systems.
I think you pump probably just got damaged. I was never so glad the day I sold my last Mk. I.
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I was wondering if it's a as to diesel conversion.
Old gas will make "sugar" crystals as it sits in the tank and dries,.. the filter probably stopped it from getting to the pump.
Do you have clear fuel lines?
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Well i was running an inline clear filter like what mowers have. I noticed the crystals gunked the filter.
I did a couple of tests. I fed the pump with a jerry can of diesel and cracked lines at injectors. Stop solenoid had voltage. 1 and 2 got wet ehile 3 and 4 stayed dry. I disconnected the lines at the nozzles to see if there was a restrixtion and the same two cylinders werent firing. I gutted the stop solenoid and same thing.
I even put an inline low pressure pump and no change. I also checked in and out ports and filled them with diesel. I even tried gravity feeding the feed port.
Im thinking there is eithor a restriction in the pump or there is still air. I read about tow starting and i am not sure if thats a viable option for me.
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Put the lines back on the injectors and crack the nuts at the back of the IP to see if all get wet there. Then crack those on the top and see if all get wet. Sometimes my engine starts OK with just two wet. Once it revs up the air is gone in a hurry. Pushed right out to the tank.
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The car wouldnt start with only two lines wet and the assist of silicone spray shot into the manifold.
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the assist of silicone spray???? You mean WD 40?? I have not seen the addition of Silicone to the cylinders to assist start up.
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I worked for chrysler and a couple of diesel techs used silicone lube in a spray form to start quite a few cummins. We actually braight a 7.3 back to life with it. Its still an oil based substance
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Maybe more the Propane that is in the can as propellant? But it is an Oil based substance.
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Anyways back to my concern. If i disconnect the lines at pump and crank and only two cylinders fire, its eithor air or a pump failure(or clogging).
I tried gravity bleeding, low pressure fuel pump, filled ip with fuel and all have had no effect. Is there another manner i can confirm that the ip is purged of air so i do not have to look into buying a new ip?
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At one time I took the timing belt off and with a 3/8ths inch shaft loaded into my 1/2 inch variable speed drill I was able to get a knuckle and another short shaft on a 17 or 19 mm socket and spin the pump at a good enough clip to throw a couple of stuck vanes out to the side enough to get me back in business. I ran four hoses into a can at the back end and jumpered the solenoid open.
Short of towing I don't know another way to spin that pump faster than that. Park on treadmill and put it in 3rd?
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Im still having the same issue. Tow starting isnt an option. I had an inline pump with a vacuum pump on the out for more then an hour with no result. Im trying gravity bleedin with the pump now.
Funny thing is i cleaned all delivery valves and internals. When i put back togather i had no fuel spraying out of the valves. After a few minutes i can get he bottom two to spray a regular pattern. The upper two i couldnt.
There has to be a way to do this correctly. I 100% doubt that in the day the dealer would tow start any ip replaced vehicles....
Ps i do not want to pull the belt because thats another bit of shenanigans and yet another toool i have to buy. I find it hard to believe the troubles you guys state just to get fuel in the ip
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Dealers have the ability to bench run the pump. You do too but you have to take it out of the car to do so and that is not a good solution for you as you haven't the tools to reset the timing.
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I've installed a boatload of injection pumps on vw diesels, new, rebuilt and used and have never once resorted to tow-starting. There have been a couple pumps that needed an electric lift pump before they would run and then after running the lift pump could be removed and they would work fine.
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Your problem with Inj Pump definitely sounds more obstruction/clog related , and less priming related.
Pulling the timing belt will cause you no big deal.
If you can secure a healthy 1/2" electric drill with a socket adapter bit - you can run the IP like that and see what gives.
Some of your Injectors may have the same issue. fwiw
To reinstall the belt all you need are a suitable size deep well socket for Inj Pump lock pin and a flat file or old door hinge (household type) for Cam lock bar. A new belt would alter the Dynamic Injection Timing - the same belt should remain constant enough to be simple if any adjustment needed by ear.
BE SURE TO GET TO #1 TDC BEFORE REMOVING BELT. ;)
I'm more curious why it wouldn't run off the dope you sprayed in it.
I won't do that on a diesel that is nice or important - but it should have fired off at least for a bit or two. ???
Not enough cranking speed/power perhaps ?
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I appreciate the input.
I removed a few delivery valves and noticed crystalized gas chunks, i am assuming that there is this theoughout the pump. The car right now is in storage and wont be worked on for a few months. Is there anything i can put in the ip to break down this gas or does it warrant a rebuild? I honestly have no clue or drive to learn to rebuild, i just want this daily driving by next year (the main issue is money now otherwise i wouldnt see an issue having it run in a few days).
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Other than a full tear down and thorough cleaning - it will be tough to get it reliable anytime soon without some headaches and breakdowns in between.
So many different shapes and sizes and things inside the pump where that stuff can hibernate. It would be rolling dice to try flushing it the best you can - but if you have time to spare - thats all it would cost is your time.
Well , plus X amount of gallons of diesel to flush with.
Your injectors will need disassembled and cleaned too.
Nozzles cleaned and surfaced.
Entire fuel system will need to be sterilized too, tank and lines.
Plus an additional micro-fine fuel filtering set up installed.
Would probably go at it with some fittings that would screw into delivery holes and put rubber fuel hoses on them into a container.
Hook up a gravity feed supply and run the drill
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The filter should have stopped the sugar from making it to the pump.
Unplug the pump.
Swap the "OUT" bolt with a normal banjo to increase flow. Check to see if the "OUT" bolt screen is clogged and stopping fuel from leaving the pump.
Crank it with the normal banjo. This should help flush nastys from the pump.
Plug it back in, maybe followed by some diesel purge with the normal "OUT" bolt.