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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: thomas m on April 03, 2014, 08:08:32 pm
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I need a thumbnail procedure, or a reference to a procedure, for removing the water pump from my 1991 1.6 VW diesel NA. I'd like to remove just the pump and not the whole pump/housing assembly. I understand that there is a chance to shear some of the 7 bolts that hold the pump to the housing. I've read my Bentley's.
Any ideas????
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does it have power steering? Makes it a ton harder.
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If you want to try and pull the pump without removing the housing really all you have to do is remove the belts and undo the bolts. Depending on how much corrosion you've got it may just come apart, it may be a total pain. I just stole a bunch of bolts out of an old pump I had lying around for something else, they all came out without issue. I don't live in a super road salt kind of area though.
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The ONLY time I have been able to remove the little bolts without problems was in 1985 on a 1981 pickup (vehicle only 4 years old). I suggest you use a propane torch on the head of the bolt....fair amount of heat with short amount of time. Allow the heat to soak in. Carefully rock the bolt back and forth. Maybe apply more heat, etc.
When you put the hemispheres back together.......get to know the term "anti-seize" very well.
You might get lucky and work on a pump which was replaced just a few years ago. Then again.....you might find a tin can full of gold coins in the dirt!
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My car does have power steering.....I wish it did not. So what, it would drive just like my Toyota pickup with(OOPS I MEAN WITHOUT)PS. Muscle builder.....!!!
I'm in Vancouver, WA. No road salt ever on this car. I'm the original owner.
So, do I understand correctly that I will have to:
get the PS pump out of the way;
remove the water pump pulley; (might be easier to do this as I will put it on another pump)
remove the v-belts(not the camshaft belt).
Then I will have access to the 7 bolts which hold the water pump to the housing.
I will NOT have to take the timing belt off for any reason assuming that I can get all of the 7 bolts out and will not have to remove the whole water pump assembly. I pray not......yet.
The heat trick sounds good. Heat to expand the aluminum, judicious tapping to loosen crud and maybe some WD40 for good measure.
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I doubt that WP is coming out (or apart) without removing the timing belt.
I just take off the whole pile of stuff and put it all back on with antiseize so I can get the bits off easily next time.
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You should be able to remove the whole assembly without taking the timing belt off by removing the alternator and going in that way. You'll need a 13mm 1/4" drive with a wobble extension or possibly one of the flex extension things (I can't think of the proper name right now)
The power steering pump comes off with 2 13mm bolts on the bottom by the pan and 2 13mm bolts behind the crank pulley. There might be one long one that needs to come out as well.
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OK. It looks to me like this is more complex (for my skill level) than what I expected because of the 7 bolts.
Let me get this straight:
Let's say, just for discussion, the 7 bolts will come out very easily ......if so, then:
drop the PS pump;
take off the V-belts;
take off the WP pulley;
remove the 7 bolts, which are (hypothetically) easy to take out
take the pump off of the housing.
Is that basically correct?
I understand that there could be issues that will make it more difficult.
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I think the intermediate-shaft pulley is in the way, so the timing belt will need to be at least slacked, and clamped to the other pulleys so timing is maintained when the IM pulley is removed.
(http://knightcreations.com/ghetto/images/jetta/rebuild/IMG_0182.JPG)
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Nice pic, Tyler!
And, it appears that the lower timing belt cover also has to be removed in order to get at the intermediate shaft pulley and therefore also the crank pulley.
I think, if I have the worked farmed out, when time comes for a new timing belt (50,000 miles) it would be a good idea to have the shop put in a new water pump also.......maybe every other time???!!!!
And crankshaft seal, cam seal, injection pump seal???? unless minimal leakage???
Does that sound like overkill???
I'd love to do all of this work myself, but my skills, facilities and confidence are limited.
For me this is all an experiment with 2 outcomes.
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The v-belt pulleys come off the crank sprocket without too much trouble, but I prefer to take off the IP, alt, compressor, and brackets. Then all that stuff can be put back with antiseize, so it is not a hair-pulling experience the next time.
Once the alt bracket has been R&R'd, it (and the waterpump) can be carefully slipped out without entirely removing the IP.
If you intend to keep the car for the next few years, a fresh TB is good insurance.
All of this can be done by an amateur, with support from this crowd.
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Tyler,
I do intend to keep this car. No turbo, no air conditioning, has power steering.
The newer cars scare me....this one is so simple.
What is "TB"?
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timing belt
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X2 on the intermediate pulley being in the way. :(
Pulling the entire pump and the UGLY cast iron abomination that clamps the water pump to the block and holds the alternator on is a piece of p*ss apart from THAT WRETCHED B***TARD BOLT hiding beneath the injection pump. It takes me an hour of swearing to get it out. Pulling the dipstick tube for better access will bite with oil leaks afterwards.
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If one curses auf Deutsch, they come out faster. ;D
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OK..............so now it seems that PLAN A would be:
Remove the pump without removing the entire pump housing:
1. begin the procedure for replacing the timing belt; lock the camshaft and FI pump, etc. (may as well replace it since its right there)
2. but first, remove the intermediate shaft pulley. This should expose the 7 water pump bolts.
3. carefully remove the bolts and replace the pump using new gasket, anti-seize paste, etc.
4. replace the intermediate pulley
5. complete the procedure
If the bolts shear off, then go to Plan B
Pull off the rest of those brackets and related stuff and take the entire water pump assembly off
and deal with the stuck bolts or buy a new or used assembly.........I hope not !!
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I'd get the tools and parts to do the entire waterpump & housing, tstat & housing. I'd also replace the lower heater return hose... do the TB and seals later.
That usually will mean pulling the IP and re-timing the engine (unless you are slick), so the timing tools are needed, sprocket holder, two-jaw puller and a valve-cover gasket. I'd get clear fuel line and a mighty-vac (or knockoff) for aid in R&R-ing the IP.
Order of ops (take pix before each step):
buy large container of antiseize, nitrile gloves, favorite beverages
loosen waterpump pulley capscrews
remove air cleaner snorkle if needed
set engine to TDC
loosen v-belts
remove PS pump
Remove waterpump pulley
drain coolant by disconnecting lower rad hose from tstat housing
disconnect battery, cables, remove alternator
disconnect IP electrics
Disconnect fuel inlet and outlet & injector-return lines, (disconnect throttle & coldstart cables if removing IP from engine bay)
****Keep fuel lines, ports, banjo-bolts, fittings, washers, hardlines, etc., SURGICALLY CLEAN. Cover injector threads/openings with caps or aluminum foil.****
remove upper TB cover
remove injector lines as a set
loosen by 6mm (don't remove) IP sprocket nut
slack timing belt idler
slip belt off IP sprocket, might need to slip it half-off cam sprocket
slide some thin cardboard (or rag) behind and under IP sprocket to catch the woodruff key if it falls out
tension IP sprocket with a 2-jaw puller and whack sprocket from opposite side to free it
remove IP sprocket nut and don't lose the woodruff key when removing sprocket (keep magnetic tool handy)
scratch marks on the IP and bracket by the bolt closest to the fuel inlet, to help restore to original position.
remove two nuts on the sprocket side of bracket, one bolt by the fuel inlet and one bolt below by the dipstick
set IP aside in a small plastic tub (it will dribble fuel), clean any fuel off rubber hoses & belts.[/li]
Remove alternator bracket
Remove waterpump & lower heater return hose
take break
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put antiseize on all fastener threads
put pulley, tstat and housing on new WP
reinstall: WP & alt bracket, lower heater return hose, lower rad hose
reinstall IP to original position, use marks.
reinstall sprocket and key using rag or cardboard under shaft. don't drop key into lower TB cover
reinstall TB and set cam & IP timing as per Bentley
reinstall TB cover
reinstall injector lines and fuel send/return lines, use clear line & vac on IP outlet to pull fuel into IP and purge air.
reconnect IP electrics
refill cooling system via upper rad hose & rez.
reinstall alternator, cables
reinstall PS pump
reinstall v-belts
This is off the top of my head, so please consult other members for clarity/omissions
If you want to go further and change TB and seals too, you can... but it's not a big deal to do the WP stuff first and do the TB & seals later.
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Thanks for taking the time, Tyler.
Makes sense to me.
Maybe others will comment and add their thoughts.
My car is in the shop to have the cooling system renewed which should fix the overheat problem.
I replaced the heat core myself. Not very difficult on my model.
Next, engine damage, if any, will have to be determined. I'm hopeful that, aside from a hose flange leak, I'll be back on the road.
However, I'm keeping this car for the duration and hope to do this work myself next time.
Again, thanks for the procedure.
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Ummmmm....................Large holes in IP Sprocket line up with WP bolts. I Just usally pull the entire WP and do the rebuild on the bench. But I admit to being lazy!!!!!!!! ::)
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You're not lazy....nor afraid of your own shadow, either. This entire thread was rather pointless. Why go to great lengths to have people waste their time drawing a picture when the job just gets hired done?
I'm a big fan of logic and other's "thoughts" were solicited! (rim shot)
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When I read the forum I don't really care whether the person finished the job or not. I learn a lot from people who are willing to share their knowledge without judgement and appreciate them giving it. For me, this is a learning experience and how I participate is up to me. This thread is chock full of useful information for anyone attempting this repair procedure.
Besides, it seems to me that any judgements as to whether a posting is pointless or not, is, well,......rather pointless???!!!!!!!