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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Gizmoman on February 09, 2014, 02:57:32 pm
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I'm replacing my DIY laminova WAIC with one from Frozen Boost.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xY7zxChG834/UvgDzIbDLtI/AAAAAAAAC-A/4H3_vGccvhU/w975-h731-no/DSC00871.JPG)
I hate doing this but the rebuild seems to have plenty of fuel to get the van up a grade at 65 mph, but I don't think it's getting enough air to keep the EGT's in a decent range. I am hoping this new WAIC which only has a .1 pressure drop will do the trick.
I was able to get all six bolts out of the intake and only needed to remove the exhaust pipe. I really didn't want to remove the turbo and manifold (not saying I won't before it's over).
One thing that really concerns me is the amount of oil in the intake. I have routed my blow-by to a catch-can of sorts and do not introduce any oil into the intake (intentionally).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-w2gcY3dGcYo/UvgDyoqbfxI/AAAAAAAAC-E/d_sdyNKRQE8/w975-h731-no/DSC00872.JPG)
Here are the two cores from the intake
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q5wfIcISftM/UvgKY-dcD8I/AAAAAAAAC-Y/7Qkl_mryRC8/w975-h731-no/DSC00874.JPG)
Can't tell from the image but they are both fairly coated in oil which would partially explain why they weren't cooling off the air much. I need to find a solution before I install the new IC.
Can anyone tell me where this oil is coming from? I'm guessing it's the turbo and if so, I have no idea how to stop it. It's just been rebuilt with a 360 thrust bearing and the full circle ring. All four ports have oil in them. #1 appears to be the most oil but I believe that's simply due to the tilt of the engine.
Any comments appreciated.
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AFAIK there will always be a little oil in the intake/ intercooler.
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AFAIK there will always be a little oil in the intake/ intercooler.
And that would be from the turbo?
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I suppose the "oil in turbo intake" has been a very common thread. After doing a bit of research, I suppose it's probably OK. For one thing, I just recently overfilled the crankcase and this may explain the oil.
I'm going to just proceed with my IC install and see how things go.
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Sorry to hear the experimental intake was a bust; would've been nice if it worked, then we could all have a nice compact option for ICs. So you got the 300HP hit? Looks good; mounting going to be an issue?
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Sorry to hear the experimental intake was a bust; would've been nice if it worked, then we could all have a nice compact option for ICs. So you got the 300HP hit? Looks good; mounting going to be an issue?
I did do a new design in Solid Works using four cores and I think I could make it fit into the space, but I'm done messing with them. The Frozen Boost IC is is their #9 model, they say good for 350 HP with 450 CFM air flow. I know diesels flow more air than gassers though so I don't know how it will stack up. I can see the huge (to me) core inside and it should be able to handle some oil getting on the fins. The laminova cores have such small gaps between the fins, I think the oil that is apparently "always" in the turbo air, could severely restrict air flow. Not to mention insulating them from soaking up much of the heat that's in it.
It's tough going back to square one but it's that or quit, and I can't do that. I suppose that's the price you pay when you fiddle with stuff, sometimes it doesn't work.
As far as mounting it, I believe I can mount it into the cubby at the bottom of the left rear air intake on the vanagon, right behind the DS tail light. We'll see. If I can, the piping should be quite short.
I am also hoping to re-do the manifold and use some runners as theman has suggested. Obviously the manifold I have is not going to cut it after I tweaked it for the cores. I really wish I had a better turbo now that I'm in this deep. My goal is to be able to run up the long I-15 grade East out of Riverside (East LA), fully loaded in the summer, at at least 60 MPH. If I can do that, I'll be a happy camper.
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PM sent.
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Oil out of the compressor side is never a good thing. Have you looked at the cold side to see if it is actually coming from under the impeller? I have never liked the idea that only good intentions and maybe gravity keep the oil out of the air stream in most diesel turbos. The Garrett in my 7.3 Banks setup has a compressor seal. It sounds like a good idea for everything. Runaways are not my idea of a good time.
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Oil out of the compressor side is never a good thing. Have you looked at the cold side to see if it is actually coming from under the impeller? I have never liked the idea that only good intentions and maybe gravity keep the oil out of the air stream in most diesel turbos. The Garrett in my 7.3 Banks setup has a compressor seal. It sounds like a good idea for everything. Runaways are not my idea of a good time.
I'm actually glad to hear you say that. I don't like the thought of a runaway either or spewing oil on my IC (maybe that's why I'm up at 1:30 as well). I don't believe the k-14 has a seal on the compressor side. There is one on the hot side and I have no oil in the exhaust. Is there a way to install a seal? Is there a comparable turbo that is built better but costs less than 1300 bucks? I'd love a VNT-17 but man they are spendy.
The oil I am seeing now could be from my recent over-fill. I put a lot of effort into insuring the drain is at 6:00 and that there are absolutely no restrictions. It leaked oil on the compressor side when I bought the van but I figured it was because it wasn't clocked at 6:00.
I have read though that if air does get by, it makes the oil get foamy, then it starts backing up in the drain line. I believe the stock setting for the K-14 is 10 PSI and I have this cranked up to 15 and it's still not enough air for the fuel I'm dumping into it. Maybe at 10 it would be OK but that's not enough air for my application.
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what all is done to your engine? its possible that the k14 simply isn't enough turbo for your setup, which could be why the compressor oil seal is leaking... i don't think that amount of oil is normal for an engine that doesn't have the crank venting into the intake.
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I would get you intake on and break it in a little more before going too crazy. If I were you and you want another turbo, I would go with that cheaper HE211w from the Alcaid dude. 600.00 and some fab work and you would have a much better turbo than the K14 and I would say "better" than the 15 or 17 vnt. I haven't run it but the HE221w spools almost as fast as the 15 in the alh car I have with a stage 2 tune. Almost unnoticeable difference in spool up time, and if the 211 is a fuzz smaller I would bet that it spools just as quick, but has a lot more psi to give than the vnt.
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also, there is plenty of intake left to build onto if you cut right at your weld or a little below. I basically had the turn up and that was it. I didn't have as much vertical as what you have after the 90 bend.
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Thread on using a gt2052 on an ahu.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360678
He sells the adapter plates for $90 shipped.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=512950112059126&set=a.512950105392460.114764.188243454529795&type=1&theater
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbocharger-Garrett-Perkins-2645A305-GT2052-727264-5004-C4-236-engine-/201031423420
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another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
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another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
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I figured that would be the same for either turbo, but the T25 exhaust manifold has way more room than the stock vw in the mk2. So if it is similar to the mk2, it may work better than the garret. The holset is small physically, the he221w I have is smaller than the K14 off of an aaz in circumference, but is a tick wider.
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i wonder if it would take much to adapt the vw trapezoid to a t25 flange.
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what all is done to your engine? . . .
The short list - A medium port job on the new head and a giles pump tuned for 120-150 HP
also, there is plenty of intake left to build onto if you cut right at your weld or a little below. . .
I was thinking of getting two 1-1/4 aluminum 180's and cutting them in half. I already cut the stock bottom off and there is definitely enough to weld to but it would be difficult to blend the tubes into the long "bowl". I'm thinking a chunk of aluminum 1-1/4 thick wold be easier to work with but well see. While it may be wise to stick with the K-14 and see how the new IC behaves, I really don't want to mess with this much longer. Besides, a different turbo may call for a different intake design and I only want to build the second one once. Not only that but I really don't like the turbo spitting oil. I think it's possibly just working too hard.
Thanks bbob, but The Holset sounds like a good route as I'd like to make the install as simple as possible. I really don't want it to hit hard though or I'll soon be replacing the transmission. That was one of the reasons for wanting the VNT-17 as I might be able to smooth out the boost.
Does the Holset have a similar adapter available like the 4-bolt K-14, or will I need to fab something up?
another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
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what all is done to your engine? . . .
The short list - A medium port job on the new head and a giles pump tuned for 120-150 HP
also, there is plenty of intake left to build onto if you cut right at your weld or a little below. . .
I was thinking of getting two 1-1/4 aluminum 180's and cutting them in half. I already cut the stock bottom off and there is definitely enough to weld to but it would be difficult to blend the tubes into the long "bowl". I'm thinking a chunk of aluminum 1-1/4 thick wold be easier to work with but well see. While it may be wise to stick with the K-14 and see how the new IC behaves, I really don't want to mess with this much longer. Besides, a different turbo may call for a different intake design and I only want to build the second one once. Not only that but I really don't like the turbo spitting oil. I think it's possibly just working too hard.
Thanks bbob, but The Holset sounds like a good route as I'd like to make the install as simple as possible. I really don't want it to hit hard though or I'll soon be replacing the transmission. That was one of the reasons for wanting the VNT-17 as I might be able to smooth out the boost.
Does the Holset have a similar adapter available like the 4-bolt K-14, or will I need to fab something up?
another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
i think with it being a 1.9L and mild porting with good flowing intake and an intercooler it's possible you have too much engine for the turbo. especially with the giles pump that continues to give full fueling into upper rpms. lucas blew up his t3 with a heavily modded 1.6, so its definitely possible.
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i wonder if it would take much to adapt the vw trapezoid to a t25 flange.
I don't think so. I held a t25 metal gasket up to my trapezoidal manifold and 2 of the holes line up perfect.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
this is the manifold I used, only now it is 10.00 more than when I bought it. It is pretty good, the short side radius needed ported out some and so did the collector area, but other than that it was cast very well. It offsets the turbo behind #2 or #3 and I have about 1"less room to the firewall than the stock setup, but it is a lot lower as the stock set up goes toward the top of the engine. I would have to see a van in person to get the limitations of the space, but I am sure you could do it, just how much work would it be to get it to work.
As I said, break it in, drive it for a year, and then when you have actually had fun in it you can feel better working on it again.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
this is the manifold I used, only now it is 10.00 more than when I bought it. It is pretty good, the short side radius needed ported out some and so did the collector area, but other than that it was cast very well. It offsets the turbo behind #2 or #3 and I have about 1"less room to the firewall than the stock setup, but it is a lot lower as the stock set up goes toward the top of the engine. I would have to see a van in person to get the limitations of the space, but I am sure you could do it, just how much work would it be to get it to work.
As I said, break it in, drive it for a year, and then when you have actually had fun in it you can feel better working on it again.
anything that puts the turbo back further on a vanagon is going to make it harder to get the oil drain set up properly. and also the way that subframe bar goes through that area is weird, so the ebay manifold would put the turbo further back and lower. i think an adapted stock manifold would probably work best, especially if 2 holes already line up for a t25, that would make it pretty easy to adapt.
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another good option, but I think the holset would be even better and cheaper yet. The fab work in the van would be easier than a mk2 as well.
That may not be the case. The vanagon has a mounting bracket on the back of the turbo that mounts to the same four locations as the mk2 bracket but is MUCH larger.
I didn't have any bracket on the turbo when I bought the van. I did build one to help carry the load of the turbo and the IC, but when I got it, it was connected only by the four bolts to the manifold only (it also came loose twice).
Thanks guys for all the pointers. Got some thinking to do. . .
That was a typo of mine. I meant to say 'back of the engine' rather than 'back of the turbo'.
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Yeah, I have only looked at pictures of the van, never touched one in person. I would definitely have to see it to see if it would work. That said, you could make your own manifold out of tubing and it would be better for your need. I have adapted a 2256 on the VW manifold and though it is not in the jeep yet, I don't think it will fit well. It makes it so much longer than needed.
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Here are some shots for you to ponder. . .
One for some perspective:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ulNP_MxaLMc/Uvl5a1hT7dI/AAAAAAAADAw/NqyCjVCngAM/w975-h731-no/DSC00881.JPG[img])[/img]
From the back, drivers side:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QAIWft2XFsE/Uvl0ZnmXPDI/AAAAAAAADAY/Z0W4EUMiB8M/w975-h731-no/DSC00875.JPG)
From in front of the rear tire looking back:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--cYbPe5Dyn8/Uvl0X_8OhxI/AAAAAAAADAE/heardpvwQvA/w975-h731-no/DSC00878.JPG)
Same as above but closer:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OvoV-R0CfVI/Uvl0XExoB_I/AAAAAAAAC_8/Aqvjl2aojxo/w975-h731-no/DSC00879.JPG)
From the top down with the lid removed:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zmpSomdi210/Uvl0Wgy5G8I/AAAAAAAAC_0/4iaiYOtEb2g/w975-h731-no/DSC00880.JPG)
Shot from just behind the back tire, drivers side:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6r1dORfdKRY/Uvl0ZAta23I/AAAAAAAADAU/_dM8wqyhC0Q/w975-h731-no/DSC00876.JPG)
I'm all in on this one guys, I need to decide on the best turbo (must have a seal on the compressor side).
I can fab just about anything required (tenacity, not skill), so while some decent matching of flanges is desired, that's not the highest priority. What I'm looking for is dependability, about 20 psi and enough air to provide 120+HP. I'd also like to stay below 800 bucks for the turbo. As I'm not a turbo technician, if there is some way to smooth out the boost so I don't wreck the transmission, that would be great as well. Oh, and did I mention I want it to spool instantly and keep boosting to 4K ;D
Any suggestions or comments appreciated.
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A VNT17 - VNT20 would meet all of your criteria except possibly cost.
Your EGT probe is post turbine...what max EGT are you running? I never even consider a post turbine install as it is variably inaccurate depending on the pressure difference across the turbine and the turbine efficiency.
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Explains the alarm set at 1100 though.
I'd also consider trying to get the belly out of the turbo drain hose, that backing up could be your extra oil in the intake.
At least in the first pic it looks like a low spot, and you are already forced into a marginal slope.
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A VNT17 - VNT20 would meet all of your criteria except possibly cost.
Your EGT probe is post turbine...what max EGT are you running? I never even consider a post turbine install as it is variably inaccurate depending on the pressure difference across the turbine and the turbine efficiency.
The EGT is pre-turbine right in the center of the casting.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-91UCUv48MnU/Uu1cq3BUqJI/AAAAAAAAC48/gX5EIA3K9AE/w975-h731-no/DSC00474.JPG)
What you see in the previous photo is the oxygen sensor or something like that. It was there when I bought it.
I'm with you on the VNT17 libby, just cant find one for less that 1300. Besides, I'd also have to do a very custom boost controller. I'd do it in a heartbeat if the unit was 800 - just cant find it.
Explains the alarm set at 1100 though.
I'd also consider trying to get the belly out of the turbo drain hose, that backing up could be your extra oil in the intake.
At least in the first pic it looks like a low spot, and you are already forced into a marginal slope.
The "1100" setting is my way of saying to myself, OK you are over the limit dude, back off or pay the piper. I usually back off at 1300. Trouble is, sometimes It's tough to do when your doing 55 and everyone else is doing 80 and your only at 1/2 pedal.
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I wish you lived closer. This is lock, stock, and barrel the issues I was having with my engine. Turns out the bigger turbo supplied enough air, but you maybe ok with the newer intercooler.
also it looks like you have plenty of room up top for the Holset, but would have to adapt the vw manifold or make your own. For a wastegated turbo I am really impressed with the holset I have on the 1.6. It was a ton of work, but worth the 30 or so years of technology they have put into them. If I were libby, I would do the vnt but I am not.
I have a used VNT. I actually have 2, one on the ALH in my 01, and one spare in the shed. My plan is to rebuild the one in the shed and put it on the car and sell the one on the car. I have no clue how many miles are on either turbo, but the one on the car works and the one off the car I wouldn't put on without rebuilding. If you are interested in the one on my ALH I would sell it for the 350 plus shipping. The guy here rebuilds them for 350, so you would be around your 800.00 mark...
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I wish you lived closer. This is lock, stock, and barrel the issues I was having with my engine. Turns out the bigger turbo supplied enough air, but you maybe ok with the newer intercooler.
also it looks like you have plenty of room up top for the Holset, but would have to adapt the vw manifold or make your own. For a wastegated turbo I am really impressed with the holset I have on the 1.6. It was a ton of work, but worth the 30 or so years of technology they have put into them. If I were libby, I would do the vnt but I am not.
I have a used VNT. I actually have 2, one on the ALH in my 01, and one spare in the shed. My plan is to rebuild the one in the shed and put it on the car and sell the one on the car. I have no clue how many miles are on either turbo, but the one on the car works and the one off the car I wouldn't put on without rebuilding. If you are interested in the one on my ALH I would sell it for the 350 plus shipping. The guy here rebuilds them for 350, so you would be around your 800.00 mark...
Thanks theman, Here's one recommended by a fellow enthusiast for $925:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-VW-B5-5-BHW-Passat-TDI-Garrett-VT1749VA-VNT17-Turbo-Turbocharger-04-05-/291010456422?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c1932b66&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-VW-B5-5-BHW-Passat-TDI-Garrett-VT1749VA-VNT17-Turbo-Turbocharger-04-05-/291010456422?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43c1932b66&vxp=mtr). Any thoughts on how well this would work on my IDI would be appreciated.
I also like the sound of your offer of the used one you have - is it a VNT 17 or 15?. The linkage while a chore to work out the details is something I could be up to I believe. Hopefully I could bug libby once or twice after going over his informative posts on the subject ;D
From what I gather, the VNT-17 would give me a much broader range and soften the "hit" as I mentioned earlier. The down side is possibly several weekends of messing around getting it to work properly.
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mine is a 15 I believe. There really isn't a "hit" with the vnt of mine currently. It is basically, just boost. No waiting, just boosting. The wastegated turbo I have boosts slower, so when it comes on it "hits" harder, where the vnt is pretty much full torque/boost the entire time.
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Thanks,
The VNT-17 while expensive, sounds like the right choice for what I'm trying to achieve.
Can't seem to find one except from Bora parts, and I'm not finding good reviews when I do a bit of checking on them.
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to me i would go the easier/cheaper route and use an he211w. thats a tough little turbo and should be easy to adapt to your current manifold.
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to me i would go the easier/cheaper route and use an he211w. thats a tough little turbo and should be easy to adapt to your current manifold.
I found a lightly used one posted by Alcad for a friend.
500 bucks if it's still for sale. Well see.
I wish I understood compressor maps better. It would be great to compare the K-14 with the he211 and the VNT-17. If anyone has maps for these, please post
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he can get one drop shipped from holset factory for about 600ish I asked about getting one a few months ago.
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he can get one drop shipped from holset factory for about 600ish I asked about getting one a few months ago.
Cool, I found him here using the search - I'll shoot off an email and get his thoughts.
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Sorry Gizmoman, I thought you knew of the availability. That is why I suggested it. He should still have a post in the for sale section on the new ones IIRC.
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Sorry Gizmoman, I thought you knew of the availability. That is why I suggested it. He should still have a post in the for sale section on the new ones IIRC.
No worries Mr.
I'd sure like to know what to expect in the way of performance. Something that would help me relate to the K-14 as that's the only reference I have at the moment.
Knowing where in the RPM range the boost would start (for my engine) and what kind of RWHP I might have at 3200 is info I'd love to have before pulling the trigger. I asked Alcaid but no response yet. I'll bet he gets tons of "silly" questions like that - what a pain ;D.
That same data on the K-14 would be sweet as well.
EDIT/Update:
Alcaid responded and already answered most of my questions. Very helpful!
If anyone has some Maps for the K-14 and HE211W, please post them or drop a link. I'll do my best to try and figure out what they actually mean ;D
Thanks,
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With your work done I would think you would be at or above 160hp at the wheels, at 3,200 I would guess in the 120 range. It will all depend on your fueling with the turbo. I don't have a map for the 211 but I do the 221 which is almost the same turbo from what Alcaid says. The K14 I haven't seen a map for, but if anyone has it is probably Rabbit Jockey. I would estimate 1/2 the capability out of the k14 as the 211w...again, tons of ifs and buts, but I did a lot of research when I bought the 221w off Alcaid but it is a little different turbo than the 211w.
I will search my thread for the map I had.
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i think its hard to say with out someone using the turbo with a simialr setup to yours. but from what alcaid had said it spooled very quickly on a 1.6 engine with 1.9 head, no port work on the head either, and made 173whp on that car as well, so with your van having more displacement it should have no problem spooling the turbo, and peak power would depend on how much boost you want to run.
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Page 21 of my Round 2 thread in my sig has Alcaid telling the differences in some turbos
(https://www.facebook.com/ajax/mercury/attachments/photo.php?fbid=10202036950625280&mode=contain&width=468&height=468)
The red dots are my 45trim T3 that exploded 2 times and the biggest one is the 221w that is on the car now. IIRC the 221w that I have flows mid thirties in lb/min and the 211w flows almost 30 lb/min.
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i think its hard to say with out someone using the turbo with a simialr setup to yours. but from what alcaid had said it spooled very quickly on a 1.6 engine with 1.9 head, no port work on the head either, and made 173whp on that car as well, so with your van having more displacement it should have no problem spooling the turbo, and peak power would depend on how much boost you want to run.
I often wonder what the 221 would do bolted onto my ALH. It spools almost as fast as the VNT, but with less displacement. I bet the quicker spooling 211 on a 1.9 with great fueling it would reach 20 psi before 2,000 rpm
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Sounds like I can't go wrong.
Hmmmmmmmm
Sleep on it one more night. . .
Thanks so much for the feedback, your opinions do matter
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I'd get Libbydiesel's input - he's the best source of VNT vs. Wastegate +/-around...I've got a VNT-15 from IDparts on a mostly stock 1.6TD. - - - it was $840 IIRC (ALH standard turbo w/ integrated exhaust manifold). Also a mech vane mechanism homebrewed.
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I'd get Libbydiesel's input - he's the best source of VNT vs. Wastegate +/-around...I've got a VNT-15 from IDparts on a mostly stock 1.6TD. - - - it was $840 IIRC (ALH standard turbo w/ integrated exhaust manifold). Also a mech vane mechanism homebrewed.
libby's already told me several times that a VNT-17 is the best for what I'm trying to accomplish. He's also well aware of the intricacies of the linkage that come with it.
Currently though, I simply can't find one for sale and the 211W is 1/2 the price and less fidling.
Wouldn't mind if he "tapped in" though ;D
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Holset HE211W/HE200WG:
Used to be called HE211W, now they are mostly branded with HE200WG and I've even seen one with HE221W on the tag :p (yep, original Holset, not China copy crap)
Only cast compressor wheel available, no ported shroud housings
5cm turbine housing, at least two different outlet flanges available
Compressor:
Exducer: 56mm
Inducer: 40.6mm
6+6 blades (early prototypes used to be 4+4, now obsoleted)
53 Trim
Turbine:
Inducer: 46.6mm
Exducer: 41.3mm
79 Trim
11 blades
Not as good surge margin as the bigger HE221W since there is no ported shroud compressor housing but much better compressor efficiency! As normally, all Holsets have 360° thrust bearings stock and they take a serious beating!
Max airflow = 31.6lbs/min (HE221W = 37.8lbs/min)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/Jetta/HolsetHE211CompressorMap.jpg)
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You're wondering what whp level can be achieved at 3200 RPM on your 1.9:
A 1.9 @ 3200 RPM would be the same as a 1.6 @ 3800 RPM
my friend did dyno 166whp @ 3800 RPM so there you have your answer ;)
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You're wondering what whp level can be achieved at 3200 RPM on your 1.9:
A 1.9 @ 3200 RPM would be the same as a 1.6 @ 3800 RPM
my friend did dyno 166whp @ 3800 RPM so there you have your answer ;)
WOW (I can even say it backwards). Bye - bye tranny ;D Seriously though, thanks for the excellent info Alcaid! I suppose if I keep the boost to 20 PSI [1.38 bar], I should be able to get the brick moving up a grade nicely. The turbo sounds like it will more than do the job.
As I don't understand turbo maps very well, here is one from a K-14:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UNNAq_4uKMc/UvuJe5DaS9I/AAAAAAAADBE/sPi4QVXdT6k/w640-h359-no/k04-0025.jpg)
As a point of reference, I am running 15 PSI [1.03 bar] now. What output does each of the turbos (K-14 VS HE200WG) produce at that pressure?
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Wouldn't mind if he "tapped in" though ;D
I don't really have anything to add other than things I've posted before. One thing that many folks do not understand is that one of these engines in a vanagon is a VERY different experience than in a rabbit/golf/jetta. The vanagon weighing in at 4,000lbs+ means that off-boost performance from a (relatively) puny 1.9 can be irritating. Lag is fairly untollerable, especially at higher elevations where off-boost performance suffers more. The vanagon trans is also not overly robust. Often the goal with a vanagon install is decent power without lag, not lag with a big trans and neck popping bang...
Having an appropriately sized and properly controlled VNT will always be able to simultaneously spool faster, flow better at high rpms and return better efficiency than any wastegated turbo install. The obvious downsides are cost and labor to install and control. It took a lot of time and effort to get my mechanical control to work properly and reliably.
A VNT17 on a 1.9 will give several pounds of boost at idle if desired and will flow considerably better than the VW T3 or K24 at high rpms. I would not go smaller than the 17. I have the stock ALH VNT15 on my 1.6 and it is appropriately sized. I also have the Euro separate manifold version of the same turbo on one of my 1.9mTDIs and IMO it is slightly too small. I have an 1852v (one of the twins from a v10 touareg) to fit to an ALH but have not gotten to that project (and probably won't for some time). That may turn out to be an even more appropriately sized turbo for a 1.9 in a vanagon but it may also be laggier than the 17.
I have not used the Holset so I can't comment on it's specific characteristics.
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Wouldn't mind if he "tapped in" though ;D
I don't really have anything to add other than things I've posted before. One thing that many folks do not understand is that one of these engines in a vanagon is a VERY different experience than in a rabbit/golf/jetta. The vanagon weighing in at 4,000lbs+ means that off-boost performance from a (relatively) puny 1.9 can be irritating. Lag is fairly untollerable, especially at higher elevations where off-boost performance suffers more. The vanagon trans is also not overly robust. Often the goal with a vanagon install is decent power without lag, not lag with a big trans and neck popping bang...
Having an appropriately sized and properly controlled VNT will always be able to simultaneously spool faster, flow better at high rpms and return better efficiency than any wastegated turbo install. The obvious downsides are cost and labor to install and control. It took a lot of time and effort to get my mechanical control to work properly and reliably.
A VNT17 on a 1.9 will give several pounds of boost at idle if desired and will flow considerably better than the VW T3 or K24 at high rpms. I would not go smaller than the 17. I have the stock ALH VNT15 on my 1.6 and it is appropriately sized. I also have the Euro separate manifold version of the same turbo on one of my 1.9mTDIs and IMO it is slightly too small. I have an 1852v (one of the twins from a v10 touareg) to fit to an ALH but have not gotten to that project (and probably won't for some time). That may turn out to be an even more appropriately sized turbo for a 1.9 in a vanagon but it may also be laggier than the 17.
I have not used the Holset so I can't comment on it's specific characteristics.
A wise bit of info there libby, thanks for your perspective. The transmissions on these things have severe limitations as well and upgrades can get expensive very quickly (not to mention tow charges from 800 miles out). Does anyone know if there is some way to soften the hit from a waste gated turbo? Also, VNT-17's appear to be unobtainium, any links to a high quality unit would be appreciated.
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The bigger turbo that I have does not "hit" it is just smooth power the entire way. The only hit is the go pedal input. As smooth as you are with the go pedal is as smooth as it will be. Libby would know better as having it in your style ride, but the ALH I have has more of a "hit" than the holset in my 1.6. The vnt in my 01 goes from nothing, to a few pounds, to full boost 19psi ish at around 1,500. The holset goes from nothing, to a few lbs and no difference in power to 5lbs and feeling a little power, and it continues to grow boost as long as you are on the go pedal. If you are all out on the skinny pedal it will probably be making 18-20psi by 2,000rpm. The other holset you are getting without the ported shroud maybe faster than mine. The other thing is an 01 jetta is different than an 86 jetta and even more different than a vanagon. You may boost better since the van is heavy and you will always have a good amount of load against the engine.
I think the smaller k14 has you thinking that the bigger turbo will be the same just more power. The k14 spools to full boost so fast it may seem like a "hit" to you. The larger turbo with the little bit of lag to full boost I bet will be just what you are hoping for.
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A properly setup VNT turbo is much more of a tranny breaker than any wastegated turbo will ever be! My GTB2056VL hits HARD when I ask it for full boost (30psi) on my PD130. I've already stripped the inner spline once on one of the front driveshafts and it is the sturdy 02M 6-speed 4Motion setup!
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I agree. I didn't word my post very well. High torque is more damaging to the trans than the same HP at higher rpms. At the same time, in a vanagon I care a lot about performance from 1,000-3,000 rpms and none at all about performance above 4500 rpms. Turbo choice is definitely a balancing act.
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There is this guy on tdi club.. Giz maybe you could convince him to let you check it out in person? http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=401671&highlight=vnt
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I agree. I didn't word my post very well. High torque is more damaging to the trans than the same HP at higher rpms. At the same time, in a vanagon I care a lot about performance from 1,000-3,000 rpms and none at all about performance above 4500 rpms. Turbo choice is definitely a balancing act.
and u made a good point that the engines in a vanagon act quite differently, i never minded some lag in a mk1... but its fun to wind them out.
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Regarding finding a VNT -17, search for "X-Man" on TDIclub. I got my GTB1756VK from him for quite a reasonable price.
Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk
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A properly setup VNT turbo is much more of a tranny breaker than any wastegated turbo will ever be! My GTB2056VL hits HARD when I ask it for full boost (30psi) on my PD130. I've already stripped the inner spline once on one of the front driveshafts and it is the sturdy 02M 6-speed 4Motion setup!
Thanks Alcaid - duly noted.
I really want to move this project on towards the end and it sound like your turbo may be the ticket. I am trying not to take shortcuts but the effort required to buy a VNT-17, do all the linkage, re-do the oil drain clocking, etc, just seems to be a bit much. Libby gave me some great advice but also pointed out the pitfalls. Your comment about it hitting hard VS your wastegated turbo not so much, has me nearly convinced.
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Seems to me it's exactly what you need. Good quick spool and still enough up top to keep the air a-flowin.
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The bigger turbo that I have does not "hit" it is just smooth power the entire way. The only hit is the go pedal input. As smooth as you are with the go pedal is as smooth as it will be. Libby would know better as having it in your style ride, but the ALH I have has more of a "hit" than the holset in my 1.6. The vnt in my 01 goes from nothing, to a few pounds, to full boost 19psi ish at around 1,500. The holset goes from nothing, to a few lbs and no difference in power to 5lbs and feeling a little power, and it continues to grow boost as long as you are on the go pedal. If you are all out on the skinny pedal it will probably be making 18-20psi by 2,000rpm. The other holset you are getting without the ported shroud maybe faster than mine. The other thing is an 01 jetta is different than an 86 jetta and even more different than a vanagon. You may boost better since the van is heavy and you will always have a good amount of load against the engine.
I think the smaller k14 has you thinking that the bigger turbo will be the same just more power. The k14 spools to full boost so fast it may seem like a "hit" to you. The larger turbo with the little bit of lag to full boost I bet will be just what you are hoping for.
Thanks for the info theman - at what RPM does your holset begin to boost?
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theman53 has a 5cm HE221W version that is sized in the middle of the HE211W and the 7cm HE221W. HE211W spools faster but flows less
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The bigger turbo that I have does not "hit" it is just smooth power the entire way. The only hit is the go pedal input. As smooth as you are with the go pedal is as smooth as it will be. Libby would know better as having it in your style ride, but the ALH I have has more of a "hit" than the holset in my 1.6. The vnt in my 01 goes from nothing, to a few pounds, to full boost 19psi ish at around 1,500. The holset goes from nothing, to a few lbs and no difference in power to 5lbs and feeling a little power, and it continues to grow boost as long as you are on the go pedal. If you are all out on the skinny pedal it will probably be making 18-20psi by 2,000rpm. The other holset you are getting without the ported shroud maybe faster than mine. The other thing is an 01 jetta is different than an 86 jetta and even more different than a vanagon. You may boost better since the van is heavy and you will always have a good amount of load against the engine.
I think the smaller k14 has you thinking that the bigger turbo will be the same just more power. The k14 spools to full boost so fast it may seem like a "hit" to you. The larger turbo with the little bit of lag to full boost I bet will be just what you are hoping for.
Thanks for the info theman - at what RPM does your holset begin to boost?
It is a hard question. It starts to spool just off idle but only a pound or so then around 15 or 16 hundred it is almost 9 or 10 psi. It really depends on the load, pedal input, and gear you are in. Steep downhill with no load it won't spool up as much as downhill, etc. What I stated in the first sentence is a good average. 18-20 psi around 2,000 rpm is possible with enough fuel in my setup.
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HE211W compressor is capable of 15psi @ 2000rpm on a 1.9TD, and spooling it up to 27psi (possible from 2700rpm to 6000rpm if pump allows you to) you would be at 200 crank HP @ 5000 rpm ;)
In real life it's not that far of from following the surge line pretty good and turbine flows at least enough for 190 crank HP, a very good match for a 1.9 IDI, even at lower boost levels
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/Alcaid/HE211W19TD200BHP5000RPM_zps58fdd518.png)
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the other thing I forgot until I see this map again is even if you are not in the center island, this turbo stays very efficient
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These turbos seem like the best Waste gate turbo option for the aaz and ahu/1z and 1.6.
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Is there a manifold readily available that has a t25 footprint?
Or is it commonplace to use and adapter plate?
This turbo seems like it will foot the bill for my power goals.
Thanks for the info. Sorry if this post is considered hijacking the thread.
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Dirt cheap T25 manifold for golf/jetta mk1 and mk2 here: http://www.tanskyshop.com/vw-8v-cast-turbo-manifold-t3t25-tk-em02_p4475.html remember to specify T25 otherwise you get a T3 one. Cast isn't perfect so be prepared to port it.
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. . .Sorry if this post is considered hijacking the thread.
Not all all ;) If it helps you out - go for it. There's plenty of info here for everyone ;D ;
Dirt cheap T25 manifold for golf/jetta mk1 and mk2 here: http://www.tanskyshop.com/vw-8v-cast-turbo-manifold-t3t25-tk-em02_p4475.html remember to specify T25 otherwise you get a T3 one. Cast isn't perfect so be prepared to port it.
Alcaid, any idea what the ports look like and is there enough meat to make them "D" shaped? I'm assuming this manifold is for a 1.6?
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exhaust ports not d shaped.
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exhaust ports not d shaped.
Oops - got my intake and exhaust confused. Time for another rum ;D
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Is there a manifold readily available that has a t25 footprint?
Or is it commonplace to use and adapter plate?
This turbo seems like it will foot the bill for my power goals.
Thanks for the info. Sorry if this post is considered hijacking the thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
I posted that link on page 2 of this thread. It was actually less for me than the Chinese one with shipping added into it.
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Is there a manifold readily available that has a t25 footprint?
Or is it commonplace to use and adapter plate?
This turbo seems like it will foot the bill for my power goals.
Thanks for the info. Sorry if this post is considered hijacking the thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
I posted that link on page 2 of this thread. It was actually less for me than the Chinese one with shipping added into it.
So, this manifold would be a perfect fit for the new turbo and a 1.9 or just a 1.6?
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So, this manifold would be a perfect fit for the new turbo and a 1.9 or just a 1.6?
Fits both but not sure it does in a Vanagon :(
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Is there a manifold readily available that has a t25 footprint?
Or is it commonplace to use and adapter plate?
This turbo seems like it will foot the bill for my power goals.
Thanks for the info. Sorry if this post is considered hijacking the thread.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-8V-T25-Cast-Iron-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-Golf-Jetta-/380395953632?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58915d9de0&vxp=mtr
I posted that link on page 2 of this thread. It was actually less for me than the Chinese one with shipping added into it.
So, this manifold would be a perfect fit for the new turbo and a 1.9 or just a 1.6?
what alcaid said...it will bolt onto the head perfectly and either be behind #3 or #2 port depending on how you flip it.
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Thanks everyone for all the feedback and for putting up with my sometimes silly questions.
I've sent the funds to Alcaid for the Holset HE211W/HE200WG. I'll stick with my stock manifold for now and will build an adapter for it. The T25 manifold option is tempting but as was mentioned, my mount bar and other bits might be in the way.
Now I just need to design/build a new intake. Not sure if I should wait till I get the turbo bolted on or not but it will be at least three weeks before it arrives and I could have the intake built by then.
I'll keep you posted.
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What type of intake are thinking of going with?
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Watercooled IC / intake manifold combined, short distance for the air to travel ;)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/L4sse/IMG_0072_zpsf18575d9.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/L4sse/IMG_0076_zpsa386e744.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/L4sse/IMG_0077_zpsbdb7c4a3.jpg)
(http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz41/L4sse/IMG_0074_zps60f0f712.jpg)
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That's long winter innovation.
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What type of intake are thinking of going with?
Well, I don't quite have room for that that ;D. That is the same IC I have but I'm keeping the IC stock. It will be very close to the turbo though so my lag should be minimal. The van has an area in font of the rear tail light I can tuck the IC into and just two short elbows and bits of tube and I'll me hooked up.
As for the intake manifold itself, I'm going to tig up something using mandrel bent 1-1/4" 90's and possibly a chunk of aluminum tooling plate for the flange. I really haven't had a chance to work on the design details but I hope to this weekend (in Solid Works). It will be based on theman's experience with sausage stuffers from a chamber - the goal being low end torque. I'm hsing tubing though so I'm not sure of the outcome. I figure nearly anything is better than stock and since I already cut up my stock intake, what the hey.
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Just slap a PD130/PD150 intake on it and be done with it, they flow very good :)
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What type of intake are thinking of going with?
Well, I don't quite have room for that that ;D. That is the same IC I have but I'm keeping the IC stock. It will be very close to the turbo though so my lag should be minimal. The van has an area in font of the rear tail light I can tuck the IC into and just two short elbows and bits of tube and I'll me hooked up.
As for the intake manifold itself, I'm going to tig up something using mandrel bent 1-1/4" 90's and possibly a chunk of aluminum tooling plate for the flange. I really haven't had a chance to work on the design details but I hope to this weekend (in Solid Works). It will be based on theman's experience with sausage stuffers from a chamber - the goal being low end torque. I'm hsing tubing though so I'm not sure of the outcome. I figure nearly anything is better than stock and since I already cut up my stock intake, what the hey.
Just slap a PD130/PD150 intake on it and be done with it, they flow very good :)
I was thinking something like this:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-K-oJdmN_0ws/Uv-JQ0knR_I/AAAAAAAADBg/AVZ7wG_Dt4Y/w854-h706-no/INTAKE+2.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BXM9FlnnW2I/Uv-JR0qOFlI/AAAAAAAADBw/owI3-FBe_qU/w670-h516-no/INTAKE+2_1.JPG)
Not sure if my tig skills are up to it though.
I can get two mandrel bent 180's, cut them basically in half, water-jet cut the plate profile and mill the four 1-1/4" ports, The collector tube is a leftover piece of the 2-1/2" aluminum pipe I got for the WAIC.
I'd face-mill the plate after all the welding was done.
I'm not too sure how important the reduction of the collector is. Many of the custom units I've seen photos of, have a reduction and it seems to make sense. If it's not needed though, Id rather not add the work.
A PD150 would be quick - just need to find one for sale.
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Intake and camshaft simulations:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2935723&postcount=70
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Intake and camshaft simulations:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2935723&postcount=70
Alcaid, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, but it reads like camshaft changes will do more for low end than runner length which basically do little. I've read that there are cams available that improve the engine, and I've also read they don't do much. As for runner length, my stock AAZ intake essentially had none at all - just a simple aluminum chamber with four short elbows.
To be honest, I'm at the mercy of others when it comes to stuff like this (not being a diesel intake engineer). I believe theman and several others have posted gains in low end by adding runners of a given length - some have improved dyno results as well. As I need to have an intake of some sort to flow all that air from my new turbo ;D, and PD150's are as rare as hen's teeth in San Diego, I might as well build something. I still have the original top half of the AAZ intake and the elbow that bolts to it. It would be easy to weld it back together. But it just seems to make sense that the additional fuel from the Giles pump combined with the additional air and boost needs a better intake as well.
I should also point out that the test you linked to was done at 4,000 RPM, I'm looking for low end torque which I may still need to improve with a waste-gated turbo.
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Point is that both calculations and dyno results has proven a cam to give benefits. I have yet to see proof that the PD130/150 intakes are worse than any other, diy or other. The longer runner SDI intakes has not proved to be any better once dynoed.
By all means, a well constructed intake made with your own bare hands is an impressive achievement but don't count on it giving you lots of extra HP and ft-lbs.
Getting hold of those intakes are easier here in Europe, they are for sale on tdiclub from time to time. I have one extra on the shelf but is is from a Passat PD130 meaning intake is pointed towards gearbox and not towards timing belt as they are on transverse engines
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Point is that both calculations and dyno results has proven a cam to give benefits. I have yet to see proof that the PD130/150 intakes are worse than any other, diy or other. The longer runner SDI intakes has not proved to be any better once dynoed.
By all means, a well constructed intake made with your own bare hands is an impressive achievement but don't count on it giving you lots of extra HP and ft-lbs.
Getting hold of those intakes are easier here in Europe, they are for sale on tdiclub from time to time. I have one extra on the shelf but is is from a Passat PD130 meaning intake is pointed towards gearbox and not towards timing belt as they are on transverse engines
Thanks Alcaid, can't sleep so I followed your link to the entire post (quite long) and am reading it now. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=277462&page=2 (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=277462&page=2)
After I'm done with that I'll do some more searching for a PD150 with the front facing intake.
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Alcaid I believe is correct on the intake not giving you "more" hp or torque, but I think it is a question of "where" it puts it. I am sorry I cannot find my links, but the links I had and the copy of my machinists weird book he had told of various secrets to building an intake. While I cannot comment on PD intakes as I haven't ran one, it looks like they took the same idea as I did to building it. Comparing it and the one I built to the older intakes it is really similar, just not as long of runners and differently shaped. The PD has 4 individual runners instead of the open plenum, which by what I have read and experienced with my intakes, change the velocity of how and when the air goes past the valve. From what they tell me air coming into an engine will act like a sound wave bouncing off of the top of the intake and the closed intake valve. This happens at the speed of sound, so you "tune" your intake by the speed of sound vs how long the runners are and some other calculations that I cannot remember and sadly cannot find the links to. IIRC it was the volume of a cylinder x the speed of sound and divided by how much air the engine could use at x rpm with the cam duration and open at 1/2 lift, but it was more complicated than that...you get the idea. That said, it was supposed to give you the RPM that the air filling the cylinder would give you the peak torque. Basically, it boils down to the longer runner the lower the torque will come on. It really won't add 30 ft/lbs over any other intake, it just moves where the peak torque comes on and makes it a flatter torque curve.
I would be tempted to not do a thing and try the new turbo with the old intake to see if that would do you. One variable at a time...and it costs less time and money. If it doesnt' work out, you always know what you can do later and we can try and help. Plus as an easy fix you could quickly fit a PD intake back there if your laminova fit.
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Alcaid I believe is correct on the intake not giving you "more" hp or torque, but I think it is a question of "where" it puts it. I am sorry I cannot find my links, but the links I had and the copy of my machinists weird book he had told of various secrets to building an intake. While I cannot comment on PD intakes as I haven't ran one, it looks like they took the same idea as I did to building it. Comparing it and the one I built to the older intakes it is really similar, just not as long of runners and differently shaped. The PD has 4 individual runners instead of the open plenum, which by what I have read and experienced with my intakes, change the velocity of how and when the air goes past the valve. From what they tell me air coming into an engine will act like a sound wave bouncing off of the top of the intake and the closed intake valve. This happens at the speed of sound, so you "tune" your intake by the speed of sound vs how long the runners are and some other calculations that I cannot remember and sadly cannot find the links to. IIRC it was the volume of a cylinder x the speed of sound and divided by how much air the engine could use at x rpm with the cam duration and open at 1/2 lift, but it was more complicated than that...you get the idea. That said, it was supposed to give you the RPM that the air filling the cylinder would give you the peak torque. Basically, it boils down to the longer runner the lower the torque will come on. It really won't add 30 ft/lbs over any other intake, it just moves where the peak torque comes on and makes it a flatter torque curve.
I would be tempted to not do a thing and try the new turbo with the old intake to see if that would do you. One variable at a time...and it costs less time and money. If it doesnt' work out, you always know what you can do later and we can try and help. Plus as an easy fix you could quickly fit a PD intake back there if your laminova fit.
Thanks theman, much appreciated. After reading six pages on the topic last night, combined with your explanation and perspective, I think I am going to do something simple like this:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O6PVGTzipo0/UwDz2tWxkYI/AAAAAAAADCc/BiqQgD3k2o0/w452-h506-no/INTAKE+3.JPG)
Four plates, a tube (which I already have) and the bottom half of my AAZ manifold. I can't find a PD150 intake and I think this will flow much better anyhoo.
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www.dutchautoparts.com will have one.
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www.dutchautoparts.com will have one.
Thanks bbob.
Building the one pictured above is practically free. I already have some .09 aluminum plate, the 2-1/2" pipe, a bead roller and the lower half of the AAZ casting.
Unless someone speaks against having no runners at all.
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Weld a water cooled IC in there like the pictures I posted above as short as piping can be with an IC :)
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Weld a water cooled IC in there like the pictures I posted above as short as piping can be with an IC :)
Someone should sell these for real.
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I have a couple of the early 1.6 intakes with the long runners and the aluminum box that I have been saving for exactly that. Unfortunately, the ports would need addressing also if used on a 1.9. I will use on on my rabbit at some point.
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Thanks libby,
Just to get the idea juices flowing, I removed the turbo and exhaust manifold and bolted on the half section of the stock AAZ intake casting. Then I set the IC into it's cubby (DS rear column) on a block to simulate a bracket mount. Glad I did because the new intake may need to be ported from the side instead of the end.
I think I'll be patient and wait for the turbo to arrive from Alcaid and go from there. I will first need to make an adapter for it to mount to the exhaust manifold and see how it all fits. No point in creating unknown limitations as the turbo will have plenty of its own.
I'm going to stop working on this for the long weekend and spend some quality time with my ever patient wife - maybe visit friends, have a glass or two of wine, you know, live ;D