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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: akcoalroller on February 06, 2014, 03:11:09 pm
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Hey guys, I have been browsing this forum for quite some time and finally got added today. just getting ideas for things i need to be able to get this build done up nicely. i got this car out of a field for free and have done a number of things to it now to get her looking alot better, still have more stuff for it that has yet to go on, just have to get back from work before i can start on it again. the original 1.6d stuck a valve and chewed up the head after i drove it a few thousand miles so i ended up finding a newer engine, still a 1.6d 11mm block, got a turbo pump for it, got a stock garrett T3/manifolds from a 1.6td and also ordered a tdi kit from hans with manifolds and turbo. have an audi a4 intercooler that we are going to shoehorn in for the turbo, plan to mod the pump a bit, throw in the 155bar injectors, got the proper oil pan pretapped for drain and have more parts on the way. any tips or suggestions for me? im just seeing what everyone would think. i assume i am heading in the right direction, oh also got the 8v head studs too, bought the 12mm on accident but luckily i have a buddy with a newer 1.6td that im going to get from him aswell. plan to keep this as a spare engine. also, i got a 5spd for $50 and was wondering if anyone has a link to where i can find the proper linkage to swap out from my 4spd to accommodate the 5spd. thanks a lot!
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If you are investing in parts, finding a lake to store the 11MM ones in comes to mind.
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haha thanks man. not really that helpful but its what i had at the time and the next one will be a hydraulic
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No thoughts at all?
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Been done and documented about 350,000 separate times ;).
Search my friend, the information is there. I've read it, and contributed to some.
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The general consensus on the 11mm blocks is don't touch the head bolts unless you have to. They are known for cracking the block.
Search in the upgrades section first as I think that is where some have done the 4 to 5 speed swap. Look other places too, but I think someone did it in there not too long ago.
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Just build the actual 1.6TD engine that you are in or will be in possession of. It's called "doing it right the first time" and slapping a turbo... a prothe turbo too, on a worn out 11mm engine really isn't anything close to that... Trust me, every time I take the cheap/easy option on these cars I wind up regretting it, they are kind of lightly built as it stands. Sure it will work but it won't last.
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^^^^THAT, AND, learn to "dismiss" the ding-dongs who occasionally come out of the woodwork and militantly "offer" their goofy hillbilly shortcuts (no...we ain't naming names....) on engine rebuilding and repair. You don't have to look far.....
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My advise to you AK roller is to read, read and read all the relevant posts to your needs, and come to your own evaluated decision.
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thanks guys. ill be going with what i have for now. its not going to be a daily driver at all. i had assumed that the 11mm block might not last for me. have nother one if needed :b ill have the 12mm at some point but its about 200 miles away so who knows when ill be making that trip. that one i am hoping to do the frankenmotor build. it sounds like a fun project. this has become a spare time toy and i dont plan on making crazy horses out of it just want a little more pep in the step is all. as soon as i get the 1.6td ill have that on the stand and will be starting to get parts for it so it will be another fun engine to play around with. ill keep reading around and see what else i may need. i think i have just about everything in order so far. i just wanted opinions on whether i was going in the right direction for a lightly built engine that would be able to go up steep hills a little better.
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Mark, you point yourself out here as one to avoid? Hmmm wouldn't have thought to do that.
There are a whole host of us here that fit the "their goofy hillbilly shortcuts" but we offer them just the same. When it works for me all the time how am I supposed to know it isn't the proper way of doing it until someone like yourself points out the downside.
You gotta get out of the "Why they always picking on me thoughts" This is the internet! Short of being a bunch of guys bashing each other all the time we occassionaly pass a good tip that makes things go click and varrrooommmm.
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^^^^THAT, AND, learn to "dismiss" the ding-dongs who occasionally come out of the woodwork and militantly "offer" their goofy hillbilly shortcuts (no...we ain't naming names....) on engine rebuilding and repair. You don't have to look far.....
There are many, as I see you have names in plural...but some take offense so tread lightly on this. As much as I agree with you in that some ideas should be avoided, we are not really free unless we are free to make dumb decisions as well as good ones.
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also was curious about swapping to the sachs 210mm clutch kit, if i swap to this would it be best to upgrade the flywheel to 210mm aswell?
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^^ Cannot run a 210mm clutch disk inside a 200mm flywheel, for obvious size difference reasons. You can however run the smaller disks in the 210.. There is no added holding power over your 200mm stock setup by switching to a 210mm stock setup.
^^^^THAT, AND, learn to "dismiss" the ding-dongs who occasionally come out of the woodwork and militantly "offer" their goofy hillbilly shortcuts (no...we ain't naming names....) on engine rebuilding and repair. You don't have to look far.....
I know I am one of the people you are referencing.. Just because it is not in black and white in the Bentley manual does not mean it is a short-cut. There are quicker, easier and less expensive ways to do things than were written about 20 years ago.
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thanks, most the other threads i saw were about swapping to the 210mm 8v kit with the 210 flywheel creating more clamping force with the 210 clutch. i have never been a transmission guy and am trying to learn a little bit about the differences. before this it was all cummins and transmissions went to the shop. just after more knowledge. i see people are running what i am describing and claiming it makes a difference over stock. is this so?
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If you use the 210mm flywheel and proper disk for your tranny splines, and then use a 16v pressure plate it is possible to up clamping force.
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If you use the 210mm flywheel and proper disk for your tranny splines, and then use a 16v pressure plate it is possible to up clamping force.
thats what i was reading. apparently alot of people with 5speeds were slipping the clutch in fourth and 5th and i would rather not have that happen
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also was curious about swapping to the sachs 210mm clutch kit, if i swap to this would it be best to upgrade the flywheel to 210mm aswell?
as stated you need the flywheel to go bigger. The benefit to the extra 10mm is that you have more clutch, figure the area in the 200 and subtract it from the area of 210. The other benefit is when changing you usually get a new clutch instead of throwing the old one in again, so the new grabs better. Also, when buying new you can get upgrades, like clutchnet, south bend clutch, and others that make a PP that pushes harder for more grip. It is all in what you want.
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Yea I have looked around and found lots of different ones. Summit even sells them they generally range from 70-400 bucks
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Plus if this engine goes I should be able to put the new upgraded clutch in the next 1.6
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I recently added a turbo to my high mileage 16d...it did NOT last long.. had fun but ... if you can get a turbo block just do it.. I scored a cylinder. just remember your engine was not designed to accommodate a turbo. I knew this.
just sharing my hard knocks, hopefully saving you money and time.
good luck
Dan
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I recently added a turbo to my high mileage 16d...it did NOT last long.. had fun but ... if you can get a turbo block just do it.. I scored a cylinder. just remember your engine was not designed to accommodate a turbo. I knew this.
just sharing my hard knocks, hopefully saving you money and time.
good luck
Dan
What makes you certain it was the turbo?
I have slapped a turbo on more than one engine for a couple years worth of drive time with all the stock vw parts, stock fueling and never had even a head gasket blow yet?
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Oh I don't believe it was the turbo... it was a contributor, by all means, but not the culprit, I was the master of my own demise, but I knew this. a high mileage engine, heavy right foot stupid,, grinning the whole time was what did this in.. it still runs and drives but consumes oil at a very high rate. I am replacing the motor as we speak. with a turbo block and head.. using all the accessories from the other engine..
I am, merely, recommending that he save time..
again it was fun...lots of fun
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Oh I don't believe it was the turbo... it was a contributor, by all means, but not the culprit, I was the master of my own demise, but I knew this. a high mileage engine, heavy right foot stupid,, grinning the whole time was what did this in.. it still runs and drives but consumes oil at a very high rate. I am replacing the motor as we speak. with a turbo block and head.. using all the accessories from the other engine..
I am, merely, recommending that he save time..
again it was fun...lots of fun
I don't see what that has to do with scoring a cylinder? maybe i'm a dunce.
the main difference with the turbo shortblock is the oil squirters under the pistons, no?
did you give the non-turbo block a ring job, a hone and a ringe job, a bore and a ring job, or none of the above before adding the turbo?
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first, My apologies for Hijacking this thread.
second. with unknown miles on said motor. add a turbo. of well questionable life... smile real big add alots of right foot... and well oil use goes up OPEC smiles... add lots of white smoke with in days of adding said equipment..
remove engine., open up and find scored cylinder...
AKcoalroller. have fun doing what you want. I had fun and well so much for that...
intercooler and oil cooler are the two things you need to add.
I used an intercooler from a Mitsubishi starion.. oil cooler from a Volvo and made my own piping.. not hard
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There are a number of differences between the turbo and non turbo engines beyond the piston squirters. The pistons themselves are different - I believe they are a bit more stout than the NA ones plus they have the cutout for the squirter. Depending on the year the prechamber was different too. But that's not saying the VW NA has any trouble with a turbo per say. Compared to say the Toyota diesels which have drastically different pistons and things on their turbo vs NA engines.
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I at least am adding an intercooler to the project. That will be happening. I'm going to attempt at getting the other 1.6t here in a little while. I work on just about the top of the world so I am a ways away from going to pick up the other engine or even work on mine yet. I plan on just running the one I have for awhile (til it blows up) then swap in the turbo motor. I plan on building up the turbo motor a tad as well so I want to take my time with it. This is not a daily driver. It is just a summertime car for fun if i I want to drive it. As I have seen in many other threads, there are guys that have done pretty much the same this as me and then engine still seems to be running. Plus, a large amount of the parts on this 1.6l will swap over to the other which is also a great thing. I am only home half the year so its a fun project I have to work on and I learn a lot from everyone on here and I really appreciate all the input. As of now I am debating on what turbocharger I would like to run. Have a t3 and also a Garrett off a TDI both with proper manifolds. Also trying to get a k24 from another member of this site. It will at least be intercooled but will not have an oil cooler. We generally don't run oilcoolers in Alaska. It really doesn't get that warm here. Just like all the guys down south that have to run deep tranny pans on their diesel trucks, we don't do that here either. We see more problems with oil coolers than good. I had issues with them all the time so finally deleted them from all my equipment I run up here.
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In the case of roadkill, one will never know for sure, but if you were burning a hot fire on top of an cold aluminum piston which was still working to expand in it's cast iron bore....well, then...ya. You may well be guilty. Always intelligently warm these up before going nuts.
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^^^^^ what he said... he is right... ... post pics of your build when it starts...
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thanks, will do. the build has already started. i finally go home tomorrow so ill be installing the headstuds and going from there on. have a big box of new parts to unload and sort out once i get home. have yet to order the clutch but i am liking the idea of the ACT 6pad sprung center kit. that way i can swap it onto the next 1.6
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I added a 5-speed to my '79 rabbit and the only bit I recall not working was the selector lever which is longer on the 5 speed in order to fit the extra row side-to-side in the shift layout. I cut it and welded in an additional section to make it a little longer than the stock 5-speed selector lever. It's worked great for a couple years without issue. Roger Brown sells a bolt on version (http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/ForSale/ShiftLinkage.shtml#FAQ25) if you don't have a welder. I remember I replaced the bushings and linkage rods at the same time a couple years ago and so there might be more to it, but that was the only 'special' item I dealt with.
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I added a 5-speed to my '79 rabbit and the only bit I recall not working was the selector lever which is longer on the 5 speed in order to fit the extra row side-to-side in the shift layout. I cut it and welded in an additional section to make it a little longer than the stock 5-speed selector lever. It's worked great for a couple years without issue. Roger Brown sells a bolt on version (http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/ForSale/ShiftLinkage.shtml#FAQ25) if you don't have a welder. I remember I replaced the bushings and linkage rods at the same time a couple years ago and so there might be more to it, but that was the only 'special' item I dealt with.
thanks! thats helpful!
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i read through that and saw that the mount for the tranny is different. were you able to retrofit yours or did you actually swap up to the 5spd mount?
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When I said I swapped in a 5-speed into mine, I overstated it. I bought my Rabbit as an unfinished project. The previous owner had purchased the trans (and 1.6 engine) and had mounted them into the engine compartment. Nothing was hooked up with regard to wiring, hoses, shift linkage, driveshafts or exhaust. The trans mount that I am currently using was installed by the previous owner. He used the 5-speed mount.
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cool. that answers that question. Not sure if i am going to run the 5speed yet but ill get that figured out here eventually
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got some photos of how far I am now on the engine. been working on my truck aswell since i have been home so i have not got as far as i wanted but i am still pretty happy so far and dont have a timeframe for when it needs to be done. looks nice though 8) hopefully it will last longer than a week. had to modify a few of the tdi parts to get them to fit but still doing good. also have to get a turbo feed fitting and build a turbo drain fitting. aside from that those are the only issues so far. i seem to be missing a part off my injection pump and i will post pictures soon so that i could try to get some assistance with whats missing. (http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/AKCOALROLLER/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140224_183458.jpg) (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/AKCOALROLLER/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140224_183458.jpg.html)(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/AKCOALROLLER/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140224_182904.jpg) (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/AKCOALROLLER/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140224_182904.jpg.html)