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General Information => General => Topic started by: burn_your_money on December 23, 2013, 04:20:52 pm
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Ok, so I'm moving to TN and have stumbled upon a nice B4V from Cali. The CA car is in Canada right now so I'm thinking of buying it and then converting it to diesel. It still has a CA title. What kind of issues can I expect from the TN government in regards to my plan? The car is a 96 or a 97. I think there is an e-test in the area I'm moving to. Do I need to convert it to eTDI or will a mechanical (AAZ, 1.6TD) still pass emissions?
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TN meaning Tennessee ? You are moving from Canada?
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TN meaning Tennessee ? You are moving from Canada?
Correct. I'll be doing some extended visiting first but will be moving there within the next year most likely.
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Depends on what kinda smog inspection they do. The CA title shouldn't be relevant other than they will likely charge you for re-titling it in a new state.
If you can I'd get the CA title notarized when the owner signs it over to you, just to be on the safe side. Apparently that isn't a normal thing in CA but it's more
common back east.
http://www.dmv.org/tn-tennessee/smog-check.php (http://www.dmv.org/tn-tennessee/smog-check.php)
Looks like no smog check unless you are in one of those counties listed or Memphis.
And even then, it reads like they make sure it has smog stuff in place and the CEL isn't on if applicable, no actual tailpipe
or other Cali-type BS. I'm surprised they check stuff prior to OBD2, there isn't much consistency prior to that.
No mention of diesel smog testing either.
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If it has a CA title and you do not intend to register it in Canada for the moment, I would not do anything until the car was actually in TN and you for sure knew you could do it without issue. There is a general EPA restriction on repowering that the car usually has to be 25 years old or older before its legal.
However, having said that, every state has different rules and loop holes. I've discovered with my own state that the lack of specific addressing laws on diesel swaps turned out to be a bad thing, as that left the EPA mandate as the go to rule, and I could only perform a diesel swap on something 1989 and older. Even then its not really official, its just ok because after 25 years, a car still has to go to emissions, but doesn't have to pass, so it doesn't matter what engine is actually in there.
Long story short, you don't want to do all the work up in Canada only to find you can't register the car until 2020 or something because the VIN says its a gas car and they won't do a diesel emissions inspection on a gas car or some such ***. I feel like you could do it, but id want to hear from someone who has done a diesel swap in TN first and could tell you what shoals they had to navigate with registration transferring from gas to diesel.
Id post this question on a swapping forum, like 4btswaps.com about TN. Chances are someone can tell you about TN law who has dealt with the mechanics of retitling. Some states its super easy and well covered by rules.
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Or if you could find a friend and have them register it in another state for you that could be an option. That is, if you run into problems there.
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There is a general EPA restriction on repowering that the car usually has to be 25 years old or older before its legal.
totally not true at all. People in CA do diesel swaps on b5's and other car nowhere near 25 yo and have no problems. I could call someone in TN in the emissions testing department and ask. Also ask around on TDI club a lot more people doing swaps over there. TN eh? Im not to far away relatively speaking depending on where your moving to?
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There is a general EPA restriction on repowering that the car usually has to be 25 years old or older before its legal.
totally not true at all. People in CA do diesel swaps on b5's and other car nowhere near 25 yo and have no problems. I could call someone in TN in the emissions testing department and ask. Also ask around on TDI club a lot more people doing swaps over there. TN eh? Im not to far away relatively speaking depending on where your moving to?
Actually its completely true, there is a general EPA rule. As I said, every state is different, and that EPA rule may or may not be trumped by state law.
My point was that states that don't have clear cut policies may fall back on the EPA mandate, like RI for one. Not finding specific rules could either mean its a grey area and easy, or they might be a pain like RI and just go with the EPA.
CA has very specific swap rules, which is awesome since you can do newer than 25 no problem provided the engine is the same year or newer from what I hear. I think VT is even easier to do a very recent diesel swap.
I'm just throwing caution out there as I was prepared to do my diesel swap 3 years ago, only to discover after months that I couldn't register the vehicle until it passed 25 if it had a diesel and a gas VIN, so I had to wait until recently. I even made 3 or 4 information trips to the DMV, visited inspection stations, made numerous calls. No one seemed to know until I finally got someone who definitively told me no and cited state law which just followed the EPA mandate which is more about emissions inspections than anything.
If I were planning to do it, id rather not commit to the swap until I knew for sure I could register it.
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To dicount my buzzkill comments above though, I think its a lot easier to do a diesel swap if the car was available from the factory as a diesel in the first place, as far as registration.
A lot of my problems came from swapping into a vehicle that never came as a diesel, so I was stuck with EPA restrictions.
If its a model car that came as a diesel in the US, things could be really easy with registration.
Either way, id be making calls to TN before I committed
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So far as I understand tn is much more lenient when it comes to cars and inspections than CA. Is the car obdii? Usually pre obdii are emissions exempt (at least that's pretty much how it works in va) I believe there is also an age limit on diesels that can be tested too.
As far as the swap itself. I don't believe there would be any problems so long as you don't start with an obdii vehicle and end up ruining the computers ability to read that.
I have a friend in Tenn that I could ask a few questions if you want me to try and find out more specifically?
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I wasn't trying to be confrontational JBG! ;D I'm lucky Indiana is open season. I understand where your coming from. When I lived in ohio they basically told me that I can convert a vehicle to diesel I just have to tell them i converted it at the testing station and they sniff it if it's pre 97 post they have to ECU'd. Only 7 or so counties in ohio even run emissions anywhere else is open season.
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biiggest rule of thumb on diesel swaps.....
must match usa epa standard of car build date...
a 97, or 98 diesel vw in usa is e tdi... no m diesels....
not in usa vw diesel offerings...
78-80 i.5
81-87, 89-92 were 1.6.. td certain years... eco had cats...
then tdi in 96...
the skipped years are issue as no vw epa on diesels for years skipped... so gotta use newer diesel on skipped... if it had a cat better have one...
why building a old idi into tdi-m best.. but newest you can in theory go is 92... rest would have to be e as usa has no epa for aaz..
this also goes for newer cars too.. cannot put a 2000tdi in a 04pd car... can put the pd in the 00.. but not other way round...
cali... 98 and up get plugged in.. older then that for now exempt..
use the basic rule though.. gotta meet current year of car build for diesel power min epa regs..
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I wasn't trying to be confrontational JBG! ;D I'm lucky Indiana is open season. I understand where your coming from. When I lived in ohio they basically told me that I can convert a vehicle to diesel I just have to tell them i converted it at the testing station and they sniff it if it's pre 97 post they have to ECU'd. Only 7 or so counties in ohio even run emissions anywhere else is open season.
sorry! ;D
I got so pissed at the DMV for a different answer every time, my irritation carries over on similar subjects.
Thats pretty reasonable, here every car is emissions inspected for eternity provided you don't have historic plates, but after 25, it doesn't have to pass. The state requires the inspections anyway for data purposes says the inspection station. Silly rule if you ask me since thats labor and time the state requires for no purpose, but there are benefits to other facets of state law that make up for the silly rule.
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biiggest rule of thumb on diesel swaps.....
must match usa epa standard of car build date...
a 97, or 98 diesel vw in usa is e tdi... no m diesels....
not in usa vw diesel offerings...
78-80 i.5
81-87, 89-92 were 1.6.. td certain years... eco had cats...
then tdi in 96...
the skipped years are issue as no vw epa on diesels for years skipped... so gotta use newer diesel on skipped... if it had a cat better have one...
why building a old idi into tdi-m best.. but newest you can in theory go is 92... rest would have to be e as usa has no epa for aaz..
this also goes for newer cars too.. cannot put a 2000tdi in a 04pd car... can put the pd in the 00.. but not other way round...
cali... 98 and up get plugged in.. older then that for now exempt..
use the basic rule though.. gotta meet current year of car build for diesel power min epa regs..
so Ohio is similar to CA with the same year or newer rule observation on diesel swaps?
This is the one benefit to rules in RI. After 25 years, they don't care whats in your car no matter what the EPA says. I could put a 1925 engine in a 1985 vehicle, and they would test it, fail it for emissions, pass it for safety, and put a sticker on there and tell me have a nice day. The sky's the limit past a certain year.
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no ohio has no real laws... but to follow federal laws... no state can deny a diesel swap for a epa allowed car of said year... if vw sold it, epa confirmed it.. no state can deny it...
places like texas changed laws this year... they have bs that a "rebuilt car" with no definition of what rebuilt defines.. has to meet current year epa...
like if you rebuilt a 1925 model t.. has to meet 2013 epa... kid you not... this includes kit cars... cali is like this for all but the 1st 500 kit cars trying to be registered each new year.. only 500 exempts.. rest say jan wiill have to meet 2014 epa!! figured this out with my jackrabbit never being built... and even in ohio this epa build date has me screwed... never been built or vin assigned... by ohio laws.. has to meet year built epa even though its based off a mk1.... so i gotta grey area it now....
so yes.. why i like tdi or idi swaps ih a b3... vw has idi till 92... so can do e or m on them.. but after 92.. has to be e in usa.. no idi standard tested or to try to ride or slip it in...
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In ohio if you have receipts showing you made a reasonable effort to get the car to pass and exceed like 300 bucks they pass you. Its free to. A joke really.
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Thanks for all the advice guys. I'll be living about 1 hour southwest of Nashville I think.
One more question, how negotiable are used car prices down in the states? Typically up here in Canada on a $2000 car you'd be doing well to get him down to $1500. It seems to me that all your cars are priced with a lot of extra padding built in. How much should I expect to knock off of the asking price on a $2000 car?
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If its reg is current, you can usually get $1000-1500 to crush them here, so anything that runs n drives is 1200 at least.
Lots of variables, but on a desirable car I just pick a price I know I can get, and wait for someone to pay it. on a lesser car...take any offer.
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if diesel double price too.... crap dipped in gold here...
i have a 05 2.5 5 speed commin up for sale... smf and a 07 43k engine going in... 135k on it... had bad rattle and misfire... dmf is toast.. got smf conversion... and chains look good but small gear looks worn out... the part all say no wear... but i think the dmf affected the crank sensor to be screwed causing the misfire... at moment 5-6k for it.. pm me if it excites you.. but myself.. id do a us spec diesel as here will cost lots more...
now that b3 wagon syncro tdi swap... you could easily get that in... you being from there... then after you extended vac, it is way more simple vs one of us... wjen you switch to us plates...
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We are looking to stay under $2000, thanks though. The CA car is a B4 wagon and it's only a couple hours away from me. I have a B4 TDI sedan that runs but looks terrible so I was thinking...
It turns out that in TN that they only use the OBDII port on 96 and newer, and the wagon is a 95. That means I might be able to get away with an AAZ swap, which means I could go NA if I wanted. I thought the wagon was a 96 or 97.
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nope.... tdi e or gas... your issue is customs.... gotta be fed reg epa thing aaz is not listed in... to say tdi e is a pass... aaz is not unless car is no newer then 92... even then you gotta say its a 1.6... and if turbo needs cat... as all eco had cat vs na... and usa only had eco or na in 92..
car has to meet or exceed usa epa of car mfg year...
when you goto do usa tags... customs issue will arise vs local epa test laws... they can order what ever test they want..
they dpo lots to prevent passat syncro in... due to seat belts... do not need a aaz swap to get car exported... you can argue tdi as usa had passat tdi in 96...
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The car is registered in Cali and will never be registered as a Canadian vehicle. It just happens to be in Canada at the moment, which is also where it will be for the engine swap. AFAIK the car does not need to be present in TN in order to get it plated. Once it's plated, it's as simple as driving it across the border back into the USA (I hope)
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Some states will want to lay eyes on a car being registered from another state would be the only concern. Not all, N.C. never did when I brought old cars in, but some want a quick look at the VIN.
Otherwise you should be fine with a pre-OBDII model. Most sane states follow this method to some degree.
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biiggest rule of thumb on diesel swaps.....
must match usa epa standard of car build date...
a 97, or 98 diesel vw in usa is e tdi... no m diesels....
not in usa vw diesel offerings...
78-80 i.5
81-87, 89-92 were 1.6.. td certain years... eco had cats...
then tdi in 96...
the skipped years are issue as no vw epa on diesels for years skipped... so gotta use newer diesel on skipped... if it had a cat better have one...
why building a old idi into tdi-m best.. but newest you can in theory go is 92... rest would have to be e as usa has no epa for aaz..
this also goes for newer cars too.. cannot put a 2000tdi in a 04pd car... can put the pd in the 00.. but not other way round...
cali... 98 and up get plugged in.. older then that for now exempt..
use the basic rule though.. gotta meet current year of car build for diesel power min epa regs..
so Ohio is similar to CA with the same year or newer rule observation on diesel swaps?
This is the one benefit to rules in RI. After 25 years, they don't care whats in your car no matter what the EPA says. I could put a 1925 engine in a 1985 vehicle, and they would test it, fail it for emissions, pass it for safety, and put a sticker on there and tell me have a nice day. The sky's the limit past a certain year.
That's a federal law, and applies to the entire U.S., that a newer engine (of any year) can be installed in an older car but not the other way round, that a HD engine can't be installed in a light duty class and that the engine is supposed to retain the original emissions equipment, but California just happens to be one of a few states that makes any attempt to enforce this on behalf of the feds, as they don't seem to be involved at all.
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Some states will want to lay eyes on a car being registered from another state would be the only concern. Not all, N.C. never did when I brought old cars in, but some want a quick look at the VIN.
Otherwise you should be fine with a pre-OBDII model. Most sane states follow this method to some degree.
Ive had the DMV want to visually verify my claim that I've switched fuel types. Just open the hood and look for injector pipes, done(at least on cars with were available as diesel).
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Some states will want to lay eyes on a car being registered from another state would be the only concern. Not all, N.C. never did when I brought old cars in, but some want a quick look at the VIN.
Otherwise you should be fine with a pre-OBDII model. Most sane states follow this method to some degree.
Ive had the DMV want to visually verify my claim that I've switched fuel types. Just open the hood and look for injector pipes, done(at least on cars with were available as diesel).
That's about the size of it usually. Same bit to verify a VIN, they check the dash plaque, maybe a door jam, none of the multiple other places.
Until it's an expensive car.
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I find if you get the nice nails lady in high heels for a VIN verify, she will send you to the CHP.
But our CHP VIN lady is pretty chill and quite knowledgeable about those other places.
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That could prove to be a challenge if they want to see it because there presently is no engine in it. I don't think there is any communication with the CA seller either anymore. I think I'll end up phoning down to the TN DMV and see what the deal is.