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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: carrizog60 on October 02, 2013, 03:29:42 pm
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hi
been thinking on hooking up a cheap water injection setup,trying to get that extra hp and keep temperatures in check to avoid water temp rising to fast when doing full throttle runs on the high way.
for pump i was thinking of this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231009940104?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
yes,not big brand stuff but still better than screen washer pumps...
i was planning on adapting a switch to the end of the travel on theaccelerator arm in the pump to trigger the pump and only thing missing in my head is nozzle.
being a cheap setup what about using a diesel injector?or where can i get another cheap option to work ok?
how many cc´s would i need for my setup?
1.9 with vnt2052(1.5 bar),1y intake,60mm straight exhaust,front mount intercooler,stock 9mm pump with maxxed fuel,governor mod.
thanks
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That pump is about 100 times too big for what you are doing. Its 4 liters per MINUTE.
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Very interested to see how this progresses!!
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That pump is about 100 times too big for what you are doing. Its 4 liters per MINUTE.
wont the total amount of water be determined by the nozzle itself?
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I was going to do one as well but quit working on it.
You can get the nozzles at Mc Master http://www.mcmaster.com/#spray-tips/=os4pef (http://www.mcmaster.com/#spray-tips/=os4pef)
Get a few of the smallest ones you can and try different sizes. There'a lot of info on the web - just type in < DIY water injection, diesel.>
As was pointed out, the high output of the pump shouldn't matter as it will only supply what can get past the nozzles (100 PSI is 100 psi). What I'm not sure of is how the pump is rated as the high flow may be part of the pump design (may overheat).
Also, I would use an adjustable 12 volt pressure switch that opens a valve at a "settable" pressure rather than a WOT switch - but it's certainly your choice.
One bit of info I found out is that the water/meth mixture can eat brass. If you just want to mess around with the concept, brass fittings and valves should be OK. If your going for a permanent deal, use stainless or plastic.
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You better re-read the fleaBay ad. Its is a diaphragm pump with no mention of a relief valve. That means that the pump will stall and/or overheat if trying to push water through a tiny oriface. Why would you consider a pump that has a flow rate 100 times what you need.
At 4 liters per minute it would drain the fuel tank in 15 minutes. Do you really think you need to pump that much water? Think about it.
If you set it up with a high pressure limit switch to shut it off when it reaches 100 psi, it will cycle on and off when pumping. It has no accumulator so the pressure will be going up and down as it cycles on and off. Your flow rate will be going up and down like a yoyo. Much better to use a pumps sized to the flow rate or maybe a bit more for headroom.
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You better re-read the fleaBay ad. Its is a diaphragm pump with no mention of a relief valve. That means that the pump will stall and/or overheat if trying to push water through a tiny oriface. Why would you consider a pump that has a flow rate 100 times what you need.
At 4 liters per minute it would drain the fuel tank in 15 minutes. Do you really think you need to pump that much water? Think about it.
If you set it up with a high pressure limit switch to shut it off when it reaches 100 psi, it will cycle on and off when pumping. It has no accumulator so the pressure will be going up and down as it cycles on and off. Your flow rate will be going up and down like a yoyo. Much better to use a pumps sized to the flow rate or maybe a bit more for headroom.
i just pointed that pump for the price of it...
and i am from portugal so all the ususal shops for you guys are a little far away from me ;D
so the pump beside its pumping pressure of atleast 100psi must be/have:(?)
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You better re-read the fleaBay ad. Its is a diaphragm pump with no mention of a relief valve. That means that the pump will stall and/or overheat if trying to push water through a tiny oriface. Why would you consider a pump that has a flow rate 100 times what you need.
At 4 liters per minute it would drain the fuel tank in 15 minutes. Do you really think you need to pump that much water? Think about it.
If you set it up with a high pressure limit switch to shut it off when it reaches 100 psi, it will cycle on and off when pumping. It has no accumulator so the pressure will be going up and down as it cycles on and off. Your flow rate will be going up and down like a yoyo. Much better to use a pumps sized to the flow rate or maybe a bit more for headroom.
If you took 3-4 seconds of casual observation, you'd have seen the pump has a thermal cutoff switch and a pressure regulating sensor like almost all RV pumps.
An accumulator can be as simple as a dead end pipe or hose pointing straight up.
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At that price, you can't go wrong - go for it!
If Mc Master is too far to ship (or can't due to your location), look for spray nozzles locally. Not sure about your area but here in the South West US they are used for spraying a mist to cool people off. All you need is something to atomize the air. 100 PSI should help with that - better than a windshield washer pump for sure.
Are you adding methane to the water?
Trying it won't hurt anything as long as you don't over-do it. Remember, water is not compressible!
Keep us posted.
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checking out a street/ pull truck today, It sprays at 800 PSI, and gets 3 pulls out of a 2 gal tank. 5.9@5000 RPM
2 gallons divided by 3 15 second runs works out to about 90 GPH,
It looked like the tank/pump/motor unit you'd see running a liftgate or electric dump bed.
overkill for most of us
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If you set it up with a high pressure limit switch to shut it off when it reaches 100 psi, it will cycle on and off when pumping. It has no accumulator so the pressure will be going up and down as it cycles on and off. Your flow rate will be going up and down like a yoyo. Much better to use a pumps sized to the flow rate or maybe a bit more for headroom.
If you took 3-4 seconds of casual observation, you'd have seen the pump has a thermal cutoff switch and a pressure regulating sensor like almost all RV pumps.
An accumulator can be as simple as a dead end pipe or hose pointing straight up.
Your going to have to point that out to me. Its not in the ad that I am seeing.
Even if it does have a high limit switch it will just make the pressure go up and down as it cycles. Not a good thing when you are counting on the water to keep you engine alive. A pump sized to the flow that you need is MUCH more sensible and eliminates all manner of problems. Bigger is not better in this case.
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If you set it up with a high pressure limit switch to shut it off when it reaches 100 psi, it will cycle on and off when pumping. It has no accumulator so the pressure will be going up and down as it cycles on and off. Your flow rate will be going up and down like a yoyo. Much better to use a pumps sized to the flow rate or maybe a bit more for headroom.
If you took 3-4 seconds of casual observation, you'd have seen the pump has a thermal cutoff switch and a pressure regulating sensor like almost all RV pumps.
An accumulator can be as simple as a dead end pipe or hose pointing straight up.
Your going to have to point that out to me. Its not in the ad that I am seeing.
Even if it does have a high limit switch it will just make the pressure go up and down as it cycles. Not a good thing when you are counting on the water to keep you engine alive. A pump sized to the flow that you need is MUCH more sensible and eliminates all manner of problems. Bigger is not better in this case.
I would ask if you have the knowledge to post a proper pump.
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I recently contacted Snow Performance asking for some technical help spec-ing out a system for my 1.5 turbo engine. They were very helpful, and offered to customize one of their off-the-shelf kits for my application.
I haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, but they are likely to get my money in the near future.
Steve.
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Somewhat off topic but i wonder if a water meth control system will be able to be incorporated into an arduino electronic vnt control?
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Would not be hard at all. The simplest way to do it would just be a case of "if RPM > X and throttle > Y then spray".
Another option would be one of the Auber gauges measuring EGT. You could use the alarm output to trigger the pump when EGTs exceeded a certain value. The same type of control could be incorporated in to an Arduino by adding a thermocouple input and then some more programming. At that point you'd also be able to do some other fun stuff too.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Would not be hard at all. The simplest way to do it would just be a case of "if RPM > X and throttle > Y then spray".
Another option would be one of the Auber gauges measuring EGT. You could use the alarm output to trigger the pump when EGTs exceeded a certain value. The same type of control could be incorporated in to an Arduino by adding a thermocouple input and then some more programming. At that point you'd also be able to do some other fun stuff too.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Nice! well ill leave all that up to the techies I'm not technologically proficient in the least bit. A standallone electronic vnt w/ water meth control and cruise control for my mtdi id be all up on it.
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i have one auber egt gauge but unfortunally it only lasted 5 days...
i bought it and never installed it for 4 year or so and now that i needed it went kaput.
i am triyng to repare it here,if i can that would be a good way to trigger the pump.
so that pump can be made to work?what would be needed more to work?
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Your going to have to point that out to me. Its not in the ad that I am seeing.
On the label of the pump.
air over instead of electric pump makes some sense to me, possibly biased because I have more use for onboard air than water.
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ok so I have to ask...
would it hurt the turbo to be on the inlet side of the turbo?
If not you could use a pressurized tank, hook up a boost side vacuum hose to the tank, then the outlet hose on the vacuum side of the turbo, then if you wanted to get carried away you could use a simple delivery valve that opened up at 10-15 psi or wherever you choose. this would mean that it would only deliver water when at higher boost levels. an adjustable needle on the delivery side or just different nozzle choices would control your flow.
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ok so I have to ask...
would it hurt the turbo to be on the inlet side of the turbo?
If not you could use a pressurized tank, hook up a boost side vacuum hose to the tank, then the outlet hose on the vacuum side of the turbo, then if you wanted to get carried away you could use a simple delivery valve that opened up at 10-15 psi or wherever you choose. this would mean that it would only deliver water when at higher boost levels. an adjustable needle on the delivery side or just different nozzle choices would control your flow.
some say that will erode the turbine.
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ok so I have to ask...
would it hurt the turbo to be on the inlet side of the turbo?
If not you could use a pressurized tank, hook up a boost side vacuum hose to the tank, then the outlet hose on the vacuum side of the turbo, then if you wanted to get carried away you could use a simple delivery valve that opened up at 10-15 psi or wherever you choose. this would mean that it would only deliver water when at higher boost levels. an adjustable needle on the delivery side or just different nozzle choices would control your flow.
some say that will erode the turbine.
Quite a few folks run pre-turbine. I was gong to run pre-turbo myself before I decided to let the WAIC keep it cooled off (that doesn't make it right though).
Possibly if it's a mist your ok but large drops could be an issue?