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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: AdrianD on September 16, 2013, 10:40:44 pm

Title: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 16, 2013, 10:40:44 pm
Hey everyone, my diesel Jeep is slowly losing coolant. After the head swap it lost quite a bit, traced it back to the water temperature probe (almost invisible, I had to feel around for wetness ;D), tightened it and most of the leak went away.
But now I can't see any visible sign of a leak, can't smell coolant like before and it's very slowly losing coolant. No extra pressure in the overflow bottle and overflow return flow is nice and constant so I can rule out a cracked head. Head gasket is MLS so a crack there is unlikely. Oil level is constant and oil looks good. No white smoke out the exhaust and it doesn't smell any different that what I'm accustomed with. No lost power, works the same as before head swap (same speed up the test slope, same EGT and boost).

What the funk is going on and what's the best way of finding the leak? Pressurizing the coolant system? UV dye (can't find it in shops here)?
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on September 16, 2013, 11:57:03 pm
some will disappear if the reservoir/cap don't seal 100%.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 16, 2013, 11:58:34 pm
Didn't think about that, it's a new cap though but was installed when I had head problems (big pressure, overflowing). Time to put the old cap back on.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: TylerDurden on September 17, 2013, 06:42:02 am
I rekon UV dye is the best way to find a small leak. Someplace local to you must have a kit.

There are so many places it could be leaking - rad pinhole, WP shaft, etc etc.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: theman53 on September 17, 2013, 06:49:30 am
If it is just recently running I have had them burp out air pockets for a good bit. Especially when there is another leak and it doesn't pressurize correctly. Maybe keep a real close eye on it and see if it levels off?
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: CRSMP5 on September 17, 2013, 07:19:02 am
depending on the antifreeze.. i think it glows under uv... also depending on antifreeze.. give it a week or 2.. the small leak should leve a faint white/pink/green trail/stain or residue type of remain...
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 17, 2013, 10:22:48 pm
Rad pinhole is definitely on the list. A 17 year old copper radiator isn't in tip-top shape...

I've installed the old overflow bottle cap, if it doesn't cure it I'll pressure test the system.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: bajacalal on September 18, 2013, 09:28:20 am
This thing has the VM diesel engine right? I'm not familiar with that engine but common places for the gas engines to leak on these were the heater control valve (looking at your pictures it would be under the coolant bottle I think), the water pump, thermostat housing and radiator tanks.

I've also seen hoses that wouldn't seal up anymore after you "disturbed" them.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: ORCoaster on September 18, 2013, 12:53:58 pm
I second Bajacalal on the hoses.  At times they get a memory and re positioning them on the same pipe without moving the clamp to a new spot can have them leaking real slow or at high pressures once the hot engine is turned off.  That is when I find my leaks to occur.  The extra bit of heat soak ups the normal system pressure just a tad.

 
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 19, 2013, 04:34:08 am
Yes, it's the VM engine, I'll double check the heater hoses.
I'm going to flush the cooling system (never did after the head swap and the heads were washed in diesel to clean all casting slag inside) and I'll go over all the hoses I can access. 
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 20, 2013, 05:39:28 am
Yesterday I could smell a hint of coolant after parking in the garage after a drive. So it's leaking outside, not in the cylinders. It's a start  ;D
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on September 21, 2013, 07:06:57 pm
do you have a block heater? the seal on this can give out and drop coolant, its under the intake,  freeze plug.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on September 23, 2013, 12:56:56 am
No block heater, this thing has glow plugs. Still haven't gotten around to pressurize the coolant system. The old overflow cap will be butchered to install a valve.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on September 23, 2013, 03:01:13 am
you can have a block heater with glow plugs, most (if not all)vw's have block heaters(mk2's, and earlier) so its possible you have a heater, you might want to check. if you have a wire that plugs in to 120v at you right side of engine well, that you've been wondering what its for; that's what its for. if you don't have a wire you may want to check, If I recall correctly its the middle freeze plug, reach back under intake and feel freeze plugs, if you find one that's not a standard freeze plug than you may have found your problem. the block heater 'plug' has electrical connections, so it wont be depressed like a standard freeze plug. (its not a standard outlet connection at plug, but wire is a 3 prong standard outlet connection)
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: TylerDurden on September 23, 2013, 06:04:21 am
... most (if not all)vw's have block heaters(mk2's, and earlier) so its possible you have a heater, you might want to check. if you have a wire that plugs in to 120v at you right side of engine well, that you've been wondering what its for; that's what its for. if you don't have a wire you may want to check, If I recall correctly its the middle freeze plug, reach back under intake and feel freeze plugs, if you find one that's not a standard freeze plug than you may have found your problem. the block heater 'plug' has electrical connections, so it wont be depressed like a standard freeze plug. (its not a standard outlet connection at plug, but wire is a 3 prong standard outlet connection)
This is contrary to my experience.

None of the many VW diesels I have owned had block heaters, except one (which has a crate engine). Block heaters are not stock, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: ORCoaster on September 23, 2013, 11:54:10 am
I would put a floor jack on that point under the front door and raise it up.  Or drive onto some ramps and then just shimmy under the engine and look up at the back of it with a good light.  Even if there isn't a heater in there one of the three freeze plugs might be weeping coolant.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: air-cooled or diesel on September 23, 2013, 02:59:19 pm
my thoughts too, take a look
But, never get underneath a car without jack stands or good ramps, stands are best, I had a problem with ramps bending parts as car went up them.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: bajacalal on September 23, 2013, 04:59:24 pm
Read the 1st post. It's a Jeep Cherokee. The diesel one, that they sold in Europe.

You shouldn't need any kind of ramp or jack to crawl under a Jeep Cherokee.

5 euros says it's the heater control valve, water pump or radiator... I replaced three of them (and 3 water pumps and 3 radiators) during the 10 years I owned a Cherokee.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: ORCoaster on September 23, 2013, 07:39:22 pm
Three very good reasons not to own a Jeep:

I replaced three of them (and 3 water pumps and 3 radiators) during the 10 years I owned a Cherokee.

But there was a day in time back before the seventh planet was discovered that I was the unfortunate owner/mechanic to a Jeep Commando.  What a freezer box on wheels.  The UP of Michigan knows no mercy for such a tin roof sundae.

I insulated it the next summer and put carpeting throughout. 

Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on December 12, 2013, 04:33:38 am
After so many months I still haven't found the leak but in my defense I did not have time to get it tested. After a longer drive there still is a strong coolant smell so its definitely leaking on the block somewhere.
There's a new addition to the garage, a 94 Miata which is tons of fun :D
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: Turftech on December 12, 2013, 08:27:31 am
I typically pressurise the system with a tester then place a clean piece of cardboard under the motor and watch for any stains. It might also be burning the coolant if it is a partially blown head gasket.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: AdrianD on April 01, 2014, 01:12:10 am
Found the damn leak !!!

It was a hose which was very accessible, it never looked moist, never looked like it had a leak but at one point it started to swell up and then it developed a big hole. After changing it out the coolant leak stopped.
Title: Re: Leaking coolant, can't find it.
Post by: ORCoaster on April 01, 2014, 06:31:47 pm
This is how some people manage their problems.  Drive it until it breaks and then fix it.  Sometimes that costs more but sounds like you snuck by.  This time.