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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: homerj1 on July 27, 2013, 12:28:01 pm
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I've read most of the posts on this issue, but as I was going to drive to Ontario tomorrow - (which is cancelled until my TB problem is fixed), I'd just like some clarification.
Here my timing belt when I checked it this aft:
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/2q3omyq.jpg)
As you can see the belt is frayed, oily and not aligned to the pulleys.
The tensioner pulley has lips on it - so I'm assuming the misalignment of the belt is causing the fraying.
I'll have to check where the oil leak is - but to clarify the potential locations are: valve cover, intermediate shaft and front crank seal.
Finally, to add icing on the cake, when running the timing belt moves side to side - does this mean the only source of this is the ip pump bushings are gone? (if so, will a n.a 1.6td pump work? or a aaz pump?)
I will be tearing this apart tomorrow, as mr. vodka is now telling me he wants to sooth my jangled and pissed off nerves.
PS I need to be in Montreal at the latest by Fri. aft -so any help would be greatly appreciated!
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What's eating into your timing cover?
You need to pull the pump, loosen the two bolts behind the injection pump, loosen the two bolts that hold the two parts of the pump bracket together and push the bracket part behind the pump UP. Tighten it down and install the pump and belt. Rotate by hand a few times to see where it centers on it's tracking. If it is still riding off the pump sprocket, then pull the pump and loosen the bracket mounting bolts AND the ones holding the front bracket part to the pulley end of the block. Push that bracket part DOWN at the pump, tighten everything back up, lather, rinse, repeat.
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What's eating into your timing cover?
I'm not sure what you mean by this? I was assuming the side to side movement of the belt rubbing on the lipped tensioner was causing the tbelt fraying?
I also forgot to add that this mk2 1.6td is installed in my mk1 jetta. I had to install the mk1 pass engine mt plate\ip holder and then cut the timing cover to fit.
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In your picture above your finger it looks like the cover is worn through. Maybe it's just a shadow, tho.
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Here is my bet on the issue .Pump misaligned, timing belt overtightened, pump seal leaking, diesel leaks all over timing belt....
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Does the IM pulley have lips too? (some don't)
I would re-examine the side-to-side motion with a new belt. Also I'd check for any hardware or flanges intruding on the belt's path.
While the old belt is off, I'd check each pulley for slop.
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If the pump bracket is changed, the tracking needs to be adjusted. He says he changed the bracket. He doesn't say he adjusted the tracking. Nothing to see here.
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If the pump bracket is changed, the tracking needs to be adjusted. He says he changed the bracket. He doesn't say he adjusted the tracking. Nothing to see here.
Just took a break to source some allen keys - it looks like cam seal leaking, and I would suspect ip not tracking correctly and rubbing against the lip of the tensioner pulley - as I did change the pump bracket that incorporates the pass side mk1 engine mt.
But I didn't adjust it - :-[
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So here the update,
Oil is clearly coming from the camshaft seal. (that is an easy fix.)
There is 1/8 inch side to side movement on the ip shaft at the ip pulley. So I suspect that this is part of my wear|tracking problem.
I do have a n.a 1.6 pump and also a couple aaz ip's - although the aaz's been sitting.
So
1. Should I change my ip? ( will a na ip work?)
2. Doing so I will have to also adjust the new ip for tracking.
2.5. New timing belt and tensioner? ( although tensioner spins ok?)
3. The water pump turns doesn't leak - but makes a squeaky\rubber sound when turned. ( not a bearing type of grind) So I suspect replace this also?
what a weekend - I knew I should have bought that Kia....... ;)
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In the picture the IP gear looks like it is leaning. It could be an illusion but I bet that is your issue. Could be the misalignment Libby is talking along with some worn bushings in your pump.
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If you have that much slop to the IP shaft bushings you should replace the pump.
A NA pump will work but does not give fuel enrichment on-boost, or as some like to say it, does not limit fueling off-boost. This means you need to adjust how you use the pedal or it will smoke off-boost or be gutless on boost.
Once you get a pump and belt on, spin it over several times by hand to see where the belt tracks. If it is not tracking correctly, then adjust it.
Water pump is a judgement call. If you don't have A/C or PS it's pretty easy to change if it leaks in the future.
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Thanks so much for the help. just going to find my na pump.
Also the ip gear lean was from the ip bushing being loose.
Here is the mess:
(http://s9.postimg.org/7y4y3nsu7/SDC11677_Large.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/njm9nm4sb/full/)
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The na ip is on the left. What is the lever below the high speed limit screw?
(http://s23.postimg.org/7lvqoqyvf/SDC11689_Large.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ep3m4d4av/full/)
Finally, here is my assistant, although he acts more like a shop foreman, and will work for carrots
(http://s24.postimg.org/bp9qkiorp/SDC11682_Large.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fln2gi9r5/full/)
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That lever is a shutoff lever for pumps fitted to vehicles with automatic transmissions. Why isn't the NA one springing back to idle?
Over-tightening the belt is what wrecks the pump bushings. Don't do that...
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That lever is a shutoff lever for pumps fitted to vehicles with automatic transmissions. Why isn't the NA one springing back to idle?
Over-tightening the belt is what wrecks the pump bushings. Don't do that...
It wasn't springing back, as the bolt that holds the throttle bracket on holding it in place.
I don't think I tighten the tb too much. I used the The belt should be able to twist no more than 45 degrees without much effort. strategy.
thanks again for your help!
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The belt should be easy to get to 45 and about as much as you can do to get it to 90 with a finger and thumb. It would be much better to have it too loose.
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timing belt NEEDS to be changed(you know this). there are a total of 3 seals that are good to do, the crank seal, the cam seal, and the intermediate seal. intermediate shaft also needs to be checked for end-play, when you pull seal cover off you can see flange on im shaft that controls endplay and some belt movement (side to side).
I set torque values at 150ftlbs for crank, 45ftlbs for cam, 40ftlbs for injection pump, and about 45ftlbs for im shaft.
by the way I found timing belt that twists to 45degrees is way to tight, you want closer to 75-85 degrees. see vince waldon site for correct way to time, as adjusting belt tension can change timing some if done incorrectly.
you could also consider doing inj pump seal too.
you need a new tensioner. replace water pump when doing a new timing belt.
I don't run motor with out having timing cover(s) secure, maybe consider new covers (upper and lower, can help). belt should ride on about center of pulleys or you got problems.
by the way nice helper!
you also need a special o-ring for im shaft cover, and a crank flange gasket. I use some rtv on outer edge of seals. some grease on lips of seals, and the crank flange gasket needs to be re-tightened after 12 or so hours (its paper/cardboard and it compresses after a few hours), don't over tighten(I like to get new nuts/bolts/washers can be 6mmx1mmxlength, or 8mmx1.25mmxlength. all need to be 8.8 grade).
a timing belt adjustment tool and a water pump tool are needed too
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Thanks for all the help gents!!
Car is running, ip bushings were causing the timing belt wear. The timing belt is running straight.
Also put on the na ip, advanced the timing ( engine sounds a bit sharp, like a old school diesel) turned up the fuel screw ( I get some black smoke by revving the engine up) but it seems to work well.
Actually the old pump must have been screwed, as jetta now runs like scared rabbit, :D, when compared to before. I'm into the pedal far less to get the car up to speed.
So road trip here we go!