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General Information => General => Topic started by: srgtlord on May 31, 2013, 05:02:09 pm
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So my 1.6 has been sitting for a long length of time. Recently redid timing belt, yada yada, now its smoking some nice blue smoke... Timing is dead on. The pump is timed to .98 . Could it be an injector? Rings? Im clueless as it was not smoking when I parked it a year ago....
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You say sitting for a long length of time. I say run some purge through it and free up the sticky valves and injectors. I am guessing it is an injector or maybe two. You can always check compression if you are worried it is rings. Purge and see if it makes it all better.
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Check for air entering or leaving the pump.
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Ill check for air bubbles entering the pump. I should also note the idle seems to wander up and down.
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Turbo seals leaking(oil)?
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I'd start by running it off a jug of fresh diesel.
I bought an old Rabbit that smoked like crazy. Old diesel was the culprit.
-Todd
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i waited.. then more waited. no one asks the 1st questions that should be asked..
... how many miles?
how old are the rings?
ive seen diesels sit that had no issue all of a sudden have issues as the carbon gets hung up in the rings from sitting..
you say grey so id say oil..
unburnt fuel is white and smells like your spilling on the ground if it has low comp/unburnt fuel.. aka sticky injector/fuel that does not burn so well..
white with no smell is not common.. fuel.. burning antfreeze.. even turbo pissing oil into muffler smells like oil..
cloud with no smell.. id say pvc/combuston burned oil..
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I will have time to look at it again tomorrow. The engine has an unverifiable amount of miles on it. Supposedly it had 100,000 since the last rebuild but who knows... I put 40,000 on the the engine until I parked it last year. It would fire right up in the dead of winter so the compression cant be too bad. I did some reading on old diesel and supposedly the new diesel formula only lasts up to 1 year. After that point , supposedly people get all sorts of strange running issues. Ill get some diesel purge and run it through and see what happens.
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Personally, I think Diesel Purge is hype. I've used it many times, straight from the can and I never really noticed any discernible difference.
I'd bet a 50/50 mix of diesel and ATF would do the same thing. I'd let the pump suck it up until full, then shut it down and let sit overnight, so the mixture can do it's magic, then run the car off a jug of clean diesel and see what happens.
-Todd
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Personally, I think Diesel Purge is hype. I've used it many times, straight from the can and I never really noticed any discernible difference.
I'd bet a 50/50 mix of diesel and ATF would do the same thing. I'd let the pump suck it up until full, then shut it down and let sit overnight, so the mixture can do it's magic, then run the car off a jug of clean diesel and see what happens.
-Todd
It's mostly naptha - there was someone around who figured out more or less what it is. Naptha is a great solvent, I think they have something mixed in for lubrication purposes. There are folks on here who have had a lot of black gunk come out of their pumps with diesel purge. If your pump is clean though you aren't going to see much.
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Second that. No crap, No color Not a difference you could see or need really. Those of us opening up pumps that have this nasty snarl in them from being left on the shelf for years, with WVO or some other unknown liquid in them see good results from the Purging. Can we just mix up some Naptha, 2 stroke or ATF and get the same result? Anyone with a crappy pump game for this?
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MSDS here:
http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/DieselPurgeLM2005.pdf (http://www.worldpac.com/tagged/DieselPurgeLM2005.pdf)
65% or less diesel fuel.
25% or less Ethylhexyl Nitrate. Link to paper on what that does below.
http://pics2.tdiclub.com/members/BKmetz/2EHN.pdf (http://pics2.tdiclub.com/members/BKmetz/2EHN.pdf)
10% or less petroleum distillates
1% or less 1 2 4 trimethylbenzene - a solvent.
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I had some time to play with the pump today. I wanted to make 100% sure the timing on the pump was correct,and it was not... it was at something silly like 1.35. I backed it down to .95. I checked the timing 3 times this time before I buttoned everything back up. Still smokes blue like a chimney, not as bad as before but still not right. Would a fubared injector cause blue smoke? I should also note there was some serious pressure coming out of the blow-by valve
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Assuming your timing was spot on when it started well dead of winter, how did it change that much? Blue smoke is oil burning, no?
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Besides the timing belt and sitting for a year, nothing. I will say one thing, Its not smoking as bad as it was when it was 180 degrees off a year ago, and believe me, that smoke was blue!
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Did you have the cold start pushed in when you checked the timing?
Any air in the clear lines to and from the pump??
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There are no bubbles through the clear line to the pump when the vehicle is running. I do not have a clear line running from the pump. I did notice however with the vehicle off air bubbles traveled from the pump to the filter, And yes when the timing of the pump was checked the cold start lever was off.
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Air leak at the pump then. Start with copper seals on In and Out bolts, rubber lines at both and at injectors. Other than that there are the front seal and the two O Rings under the covers up front. Top seal and O ring at fuel check valve? I wouldn't expect the copper washers to be bad at the back of the pump but you never really know till you look.
Did I forget any? O- ring on Throttle shaft. I think that is all.
Rebuild kit gets you all of them except the front seal that is a all by itselfer.
Keep us posted.
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A clear line on the OUT to the tank return can save time...
Shows if air is infiltrating via IP seals: return fuel will look foamy when running if air is getting in, solid/clear when air is purged.
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I would highly suggest just a piece of clear line off the out bolt for the purposes of testing here. Best way to know that I know.
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Clear piece has been attached for testing purposes. For about 10 minutes of running there was a nice stream of bubbles coming from the out bolt, which cleared up completely.
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That seems a long time to me, even if only at idle. The pump cranks nearly a liter of fluid through it in a minute and a half. So I would be looking for a leaking seal somewhere along the line. Maybe even in front of the fuel filter.
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No fuel leaks at all. The pump was resealed a year ago. Maybe the Prothe fuel filter is finally giving me issues.
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What style filter is it? The one with the heater valve thing that doesn't cycle back fuel to the tank until it reaches a certain temperature? Those are a bugger to bleed the air out of...
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Well blue smoke stopped, now just a haze of grey smoke at idle and only running slightly lopy. Now what?
(http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv285/srgtlord/GEDC5731_zpsd28d14d0.jpg) (http://s692.photobucket.com/user/srgtlord/media/GEDC5731_zpsd28d14d0.jpg.html)
(http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv285/srgtlord/GEDC5732_zpse72550f0.jpg) (http://s692.photobucket.com/user/srgtlord/media/GEDC5732_zpse72550f0.jpg.html)
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Any and all Ideas are welcome. Should I just drive it and see if the smoke clears up?
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I have pondering this issue over the last month, and I I do remember something I did differently this time, I bumped up the timing to 1.00 from .90 . Would that account for the haze of gray smoke?
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Possibly, but remember it is a diesel. It will smoke some. Mine didn't have that much when warm, but when cold it would give the white cloud like so.
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I think I found my issue...the front pump shaft seal is leaking....
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I told you so. June 10th
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You were right sir... hopefully the pump is'nt fubarred from the overtightened timing belt a year ago. My fingers are crossed that the prothe seal failed due to being constructed from cheap non diesel resistant rubber, but if that was the case I think the pump would be leaking all over the place. This pump was one of Jeremy's early reseals before he started using Bosch seal kits.
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I would think the seal would go before you started scraping the inside of the IP body. Those little four flappers do have some amount of distance they need to come out of the slots to meet the body. So I would say safe. And I like how you passed the potential blame for all of this to J. Who tightened that TB? Who rebuilt the pump? Hope a new seal sets you up good. You going to disassemble the pump to do the seal just to check for wear? Or get it out from the outside?
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Im not passing any blame lol I screwed up. I said it "might" be possible seal leaked due to chineese build quality but I find it rather unlikely that one seal would magically start leaking out of all of them. The pump I bought from him did what it was suppose to do, make my car run for an extremely fair price :) I think the seal would have lasted many many miles if the belt was not overtightened. So Just to be Clear Jeremy is an excellent Businessman and delivers an excellent service.
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Ok so today for shiggles I replaced the front pump seal, packed a crap ton of vaseline in the seal and VOILA! no more leak and no more smoke issue. Now only time will tell if this is successful. Either way Im moving on to do battle with the rust on this vehicle.....
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Rust? VW's don't rust do they?