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Engine Specific Info and Questions => Non VW Group Diesel => Topic started by: moTthediesel on March 07, 2006, 06:18:12 am
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Stopped at the new Best Buy in Watertown NY on Sunday and parked right next to a brand new "Smart Car" diesel. It had Ontario plates and a crowd of people gawking at it.
I'm not usually crazy about little "Wart" cars, as my Sons call them, but that thing was pretty cool, I must say! It must have made the trip down from the border on I-81 OK, does anyone know how fast they can go? I'll have to do some research, even though I'm sure they'll never be allowed to be sold here in the United Snakes :evil:
moT
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They must be selling quite a few of them,as I've seen a lot of them on the roads lately.
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There are lots of them in the Vancouver BC area. They seem to be able to hold 120km/h ok and accelerate good enough to keep up to other traffic. Sound kinda buzzy on the highway, like they are wound out a bit at 120.
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Theres' a tonne of them in Ottawa. We usually pass at least one on our way home in the eve and I see them all day around the market. THey seem to sit around 115-120km/h on the highway. Like the previous post said - buzzy at highway speed. The trade off is there amazing on fuel and there's no problem finding parking :D
I'd like to see what one looked like after it had been in a highway accident. I think there a great grocery getter. I saw the new one...looks like a crx but deisel and more of a drivers car... now that would be interesting
out.
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:? there are about 3 in the parking lot outside the window here. at least 1 CDI. i flew past one on the 401 yesterday... haha funny little things to see on a highway. i thought my rabbit was small.
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There are various crash test vids on the 'net. Google it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5217861/ is a promotional one. Watch it closely and you will see that the Smart comes to a stop and starts to rebound just before they cut the scene.
There is another non-promo test video out there somewhere, shot outdoors, between a Merc. and Smart and it clearly shows the Smart bounce backwards, about a foot in the air.
The accupant compartment is protected, but would you survive the deceleration? I certainly wouldnt want to run into anything big with one. In my book, they are an alternative for someone that would be willing to ride a motorcycle on public roads -something I once was willing to do but no longer. Jetta is as small and light as I am willing to go.
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I see those everyday 8)
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I've seen on here in western maine. The thing was a diesel, and quick. I waching it pull out of a fuel station. I dont think I would ride in one, not to safe IMHO.
Coop
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Mercedes Benz 600 (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_600)
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A short video of a Ford F150 crash test at 40mph for comparison followed by a longer vid of a Smart car crash test at 70mph.
http://www.progressive.com/video/40F-150.mpg
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6605730767077503480
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OK, I can't get it to work now. Was a very good vid with a commentator who travelled along beside the smart as it accelerated then smashed into a concrete barrier. It bouced quite a ways up and back but the cab was in remarkably good shape, the passenger door still opened and closed neatly. If someone else can find it please post.
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Try this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/60538/smart_car_crash/
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I think I'd rather be in the smart car. You'd be less likely to be injured. One thing most people don't think about in crash scenarios is that a large vehicle such as the truck can be worse. The inertia is that much greater leading to further collapse of the cabin area which would be much more likely to cause serious/fatal injury than being thrown around inside the car. At least the airbags would be deployed to cushion you. Another thing is that a non-unibody vehicle derrives much of it's strength from the frame and contact above the frame can skewer the cab off like an egg off the griddle.
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large vehicle such as the truck can be worse. The inertia is that much greater
Having interia on your side in an multi vehicle accident is beneficial. There are accident statistics to prove that you are much more likely to be injured/die if you are in the lighter of 2 vehicles involved in a crash. Inertia (force) = mass * velocity right?
The principle behind seatbelts/ airbags, crumple zones, bumpers is energy absorption & disipation. They all act to spread out the time that your body is subject to deceleration. Too much deceleration, even if the cabin stays intack results in broken necks, arotas ripped off, internal injuries, brain damage. Picture yourself falling backwards onto a mattress vs a concrete floor. One doesnt hurt, one may kill you, your body had the same energy (inertia) in each case but the mattress decelerates you gradually.
OK, soin a similar speed crash between a Smart and a rail frame 1/2 ton pickup in a headon, the Smart is going do expend all its energy without expending all the pickups and bounce backwards. Case in point: My mint '61 chrysler 4 dr (driven by my sister) hit LF corner with RF corner of a mid '80s civic that turned left on a red light. Civic driver left the scene in an ambulance, sister and boyfriend unhurt. Crysler didnt even have seat belts.
Different if you run a vehicle into an imovable object. The Smart probably absords its own energy better than any half ton pickup can. But I wonder if the above crash video would have been survivable in any case...it was a heck of a impact.
Sorry to ramble on so long.
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Yeah, in a two vehical collision, the bigger is "usually" better off, unless it squishes into the passenger compartment too much. Recently here there was a case where a schoolbus t-boned a suburban that turned in front of it. Killed a few people in the suburban, and only minor injuries in the school bus. So even a big SUV won't always save you.
But probably half of the accidents I see around here are single vehical accidents -- alot of going off the edge of the road into the creek in the ice type stuff. If I'm driving in city traffic, bigger might be better to fend off other cars careening into me, but on a snowy mountain road, I'd prefer something smaller and more nimble to avoid flipping it in the ice.
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i had a smartcar up until sept last year, i had owned it for 5 years, the best car i have ever owned, family life forced sale, their lots of fun, nippy and a totally loaded small car. i still miss, the thing i lov'd bout it, mine was tuned with big alloys, so it was fast and stuck well, lots of hot hatches didnt have a chance as there so small and agile. i put 60k on it too and no problems.
there's loads here on the uk, but have only ever seen one or two diesel smarts in real life, they are few and far between.
hillshy
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The smart has an official top speed of 130km/h so I bet they sound wound out at 120 :)
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wonder if you can get tranny upgrades for them... and like Hillshy said, bigger alloys would increase the overall top speed (not by too much but still...)
the gas version only gets like 50-60 mpg??? not too impressive for its size... geo has already done that.
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Not Diesel...but cool...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8819404068306899756
Smart car with a GSXR1000 engine.
I believe Malone played with one and did some calculations on what can be done to a smart car.
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Thanks, I have not laughed so hard in a long time. This is waht happens when teenagers are not supervised propperly :lol:
Bernie
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So the Smart Diablo runs 13 second 1/4 miles? Thats pretty impressive. Bet he still can't pick up girls in it.
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I believe Malone played with one and did some calculations on what can be done to a smart car.
OK, I chipped a 0.8L 3cyl common rail diesel (at present the only engine option that's available in Canadian Smarts) about a year ago. At best without smoking too much, the gains are 41HP (stock) to 52HP (chipped), and 74lb-ft (stock) to 90lb-ft (chipped). Some tuners advertise an increase of 20HP or more but G-Tech results confirm that these estimates are exaggerated.
Stock acceleration (41HP) is advertised @ 19.8 seconds if I remember correctly. I forgot to time acceleration after the chip was installed but it feels more tolerable... my rough guess would be 14-15 secs. Not fast by any means, just more tolerable. 1/4 mile times are reduced frpm high 20s (stock) to mid-high 19s. Yes, only 1 to 1.5 second shaved off, even if the Smart smokes quite a bit. The trap speed at the end of the 1/4 mile is 70 MPH (112 km/h) vs. stock 65MPH trap speed. The 0.8L runs out of steam in the top end.
CMAP = Tuner in Calgary (I forget who).
VMAP = Tuner in Vancouver (flyingtiger.ca - NOT me).
Mozsimo = Tuner from Spain if I remember correctly.
* HorsePower: 1st - Mozsimo (49.6), 2nd - CMap (47.9), 3rd - VMap (46.9), 4th - Stock (36.0)
* Torque: 1st - Mozsimo (71.5), 2nd - VMap (69.3), 3rd - CMap (67.6), 4th - Stock (56.2)
* 1/4 mile times: 1st - VMap (19.334), 2nd - Mozsimo (19.768), 3rd - CMap (19.881), 4th - Stock (20.946)
* 1/4 mile trap speed: 1st - VMap (71.38), 2nd - Mozsimo (70.80), 3rd - CMap (69.01), 4th - Stock (65.44)
The HP and Torque values above are net numbers from G-Tech, not precisely engine or wheel horsepower. These results were taken by someone else, so I don't have G-tech results with my chip.
The Smart CDI's turbo is not controlled by the engine computer - it's only controlled by a mechanical wastegate like the IDI/VW TDs. The wastegate actuator is adjustable but there isn't much room for efficient boost increase... adjusting the actuator rod is mainly ideal for controlling boost spikes intially caused by an increased surge in fueling (from a more powerful fueling chip) rather than adding performance, AFAIK. That, and the inability to take VAG-COM logs, is why we don't need to bother making fully custom tunes for individual Smarts. We sell mostly canned tunes only. Smarts are also not very popular here on the west coast compared to Quebec/Ontario.
The 1.6TD's turbo is quite under-used (~10 PSI stock) so they have plenty of room for more boost while staying within the turbo's efficiency range.
A couple years ago I was excited about the Smart and thought of trying/buying one, but after playing with a customer's Smart, I chose to stick to VW diesels.
IMO the 1.6TDs are more economical and more tunable. New Smarts are $18k CAD last I checked, and they have a rather poor fuel economy/performance ratio compared to VW TDIs. 50-55 US MPG are commonly seen by Smart owners, with some hardcore drivers achieving 65-70+ US MPG (driving really really carefully). That's not impressive considering their size.
VW's 1.2L 3 cylinder "3L" with aluminum block in a MK1 Rabbit will have similar or better fuel economy and significantly better performance potential. Not to mention that including importing a 1.2L engine from Europe and swapping it in, it'll still cost half that of a Smart, so the Smart does not really pay for itself. The 2 seats, small cargo, and lackluster performance kills the deal.
A 1.4L 3cyl would also be ideal if we want a little more performance (there are 1.4Ls with 90HP stock and maybe 120whp after a little tuning) without hurting fuel economy much. The VW cars also have great aftermarket support (low cost suspension, lots of wheel options, seat options, lighting, etc.).
In conclusion, the Smart is just a novelty car IMO, although I respect them for adapting more people into accepting diesels.
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The crash vidio is only half of the Top Gear item. The other bit shows a conventional car hit the barrier.
Try this link http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8147383381569023029
In a crash though the max instatanious deceleration the human body can cope with is below 30mph. Above that your heart tears free.
They did some more crash tests as well against bigger cars and the Smart always came off best. It's particullay good when hit from the side because it's so short the wheels take the impact and the passenger comparment is unaffected.
However it's become clear here where there are lots of them (not diesels though) it's clear that they are one of the toughest cars around.
My wifes had one for 7 years and it's been in 4 accidents and the only repair it's needed is to have some scratches polished out of the ABS panels when some yobs in an Ford Escourt deliberatly rammed her. The Ford suffered a lot of panel damage I'm pleased to say.
The funniest one was when she drove into a car park while the barrier was down and demolished it.
I love the car because it means I don't have to keep getting my Volvo bodywork repaired.
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If the smart doesn't deform that much (as it appears in the video) all that crash energy isn't being absorbed by the structure of the car. It will mean they find your body ripped in to 4 pieces by the seatbelt. Yummy.
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If the smart doesn't deform that much (as it appears in the video) all that crash energy isn't being absorbed by the structure of the car. It will mean they find your body ripped in to 4 pieces by the seatbelt. Yummy.
That test is a bit misleading in that it's 70mph into concrete. Thus compared to a 35mph test the car has 8 times the energy to dissipate. That's why it was able to move 20 tons of concrete.
The airbags would stop you getting quatered but you'd still be dead from the decelleration.
I real life that kind of crash rarely happens, in crashes with other cars the Smart come of very well as the Tridon safety cage absorbs energy very well, and the passenger compartment is supposed to hold it's integrity otherwise you get crushed.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s
At the very end they admit that on both cars the passengers would have been unlikely to survive. Shades of all the NASCAR Modified drivers that were dying when they hit the walls even though there was minimal damage to the car frame. NASCAR ended up mandating a frame that allowed more crush to help protect the driver. I remember seeing a picture of one of those cars that hit the wall, with the only damage visible being the right front spindle broken - driver died. Who cares if the cage survives if you don't.
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In the Golf for example, everything but the passenger area flies to bits in an (typical, there are always extremes) accident attempting to soak up as much energy as possible. I wouldn't feel as safe in a smart car no matter how rational/irrational the reasoning.
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In the Golf for example, everything but the passenger area flies to bits in an (typical, there are always extremes) accident attempting to soak up as much energy as possible. I wouldn't feel as safe in a smart car no matter how rational/irrational the reasoning.
I can understand that. It wasn't till we bought one that I realised how well designed it was. In tests it's better than the Mk 3 Golf. Of course the Mk 4 is a much better design from a crash test point of view.
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I'm begnining to feel that is about the only area a MKIV is better (vs the III)...well maybe corrosion too.
I'm sure the Smart is a dandy little car, perhaps once my kids have left the house I'll be able to get something small like that for my wife. It'd be the perfect city run-a-bout
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I'm begnining to feel that is about the only area a MKIV is better (vs the III)...well maybe corrosion too.
I'm sure the Smart is a dandy little car, perhaps once my kids have left the house I'll be able to get something small like that for my wife. It'd be the perfect city run-a-bout
I had a MK IV GT Tdi 140bhp DSG and I thought it was a great car, but I did like the MK III styling. A real classic. I just found it a bit too small after my Volvo 940 TD Estate. Traded the Golf for a Volvo XC90 D5 Tdi AWD in the end. Takes my daughters family as well as us, so saves taking two cars most of the time.
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We don't get any cool cars here :(
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I drove a friends smart car a few months ago. He had modified it a bit (K&N and remap) It was good and at no time did I feel unsafe in it. I only took it up to about 70 kmph as we were in town. The sequential shifter is pretty cool but in auto mode there is a huge delay between shifts. He recommends leasing it and then dumping it because only MB can work on them which is some big $$$. I've heard that he doesn't do all the maintenance that he should though so that should be taken into consideration
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I drove a friends smart car a few months ago. He had modified it a bit (K&N and remap) It was good and at no time did I feel unsafe in it. I only took it up to about 70 kmph as we were in town. The sequential shifter is pretty cool but in auto mode there is a huge delay between shifts. He recommends leasing it and then dumping it because only MB can work on them which is some big $$$. I've heard that he doesn't do all the maintenance that he should though so that should be taken into consideration
In the UK because Mercedes Benz were so tardy in selling them in the UK lots of non franchised sprang up selling importing new and second hand ones and there were loads on the road before MB took action and started official imports. So there is a big choice here of none franchised specialist Smart garages to go to.
There's no reason why any competant garage can't work on them that I can see. Yes they have computer controlled systems but what modern car dosn't these days? The fact that there seem to be a lot of modded cars around must say something about the ease of working on them I would have thought.
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I attended an accident where a smart took out a Ford F250 at 70km's. T-bonned and bent the pickup so that when you looked down the truck from the front you could not see the Smart car indented in the passenger side. When the Fire department extricated the the driver of the smart car (Not a smart driver...drunk at the wheel) he was totally fine. The driver and passenger of the truck were both airlifted to the Truama Center seriously messed up. I was impressed but still dont think I would drive one.
The frame of the car was seemingly intact, and I have to say the FD had a tough time cutting the cage to get the guy out.
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I believe that you can get a chip for the smart to boost it up from 40 ish HP to around 70. Should be really peppy then. Cheers Dan
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I believe that you can get a chip for the smart to boost it up from 40 ish HP to around 70. Should be really peppy then. Cheers Dan
You are correct. The car I drove was chipped
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Yes you can chip them.
Its the Diesel Power North America Digi CR the same box can be used on all the new Merc motors and the Dodge Sprinter, and all the Jeep CRDs.
They actually save even more fuel and make more power.
Also MBRP makes an exhaust kit for the SMART. Awsome..lol
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I owned a diesel smart till about 5 months ago, then I had to sell it, Its keyless entry security system seems to engineered by complete whackos, park it next to a benz or other keyless entry car for a month and you are screwed, new everything between keys fobs, communicators etc. $$$xyournextborn
IMO the economy isnt all that, sure you get lots of attention, still its not built like proper german metal, you cant beat the timeless MK2 shape, sturdiness and specially the MPG of the VW "umwelt"
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This would give the smart car a run for its money:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm