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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: the4ork on March 06, 2006, 01:05:44 pm
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hey guys...
my 82 diesel jetta still runs, but its so slow and the gas mileage is getting worse and worse... and i really want to put a TD in there....
what is the ultimate combo to run as far as engine is concerned?
i would like to keep it IDI since its so hard to find TDI parts, especially at a decent price....
1.6TD head /w the "worked" TD injection pump + the TDI bottom end?
trying to build the motor under $4k if possible (minus accessories like the turbo)
or maybe i should go custom internals (head will be P&P regaurdless) and will be running a ball bearing turbo...
here is my car:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/the4ork/mynigga.jpg)
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i guess what else would be helpful is if someone could also tell me what WONT work together...
like ive heard that some heads/blocks use different size headbolts...
im assuming a 1.9 block will be best... heads? i dont know, prabably the 1.9 as well. (will be P&P anyways)
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
the 1.6Ls like to rev more, but with work on the internals the 1.9Ls can be made to rev.
the 1.9Ls have a crank bolt issue you would want to address.
i stuck with a plain ol' 1.6L TD from a 1990 jetta (MF engine code) for simplicity, cost, and reliability. been driving it two years now with the TD and i'm happy with it.
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
the 1.6Ls like to rev more, but with work on the internals the 1.9Ls can be made to rev.
the 1.9Ls have a crank bolt issue you would want to address.
i stuck with a plain ol' 1.6L TD from a 1990 jetta (MF engine code) for simplicity, cost, and reliability. been driving it two years now with the TD and i'm happy with it.
whats the reason behind why the 1.6L's like to rev more? is it because the rotating mass weighs less? better rod ratio? i've been thinking of going with a set of forged pistons just to take the extra heat, and some custom valves as well
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Yes,the 1.6L's seem to rev a lot easier,due to a less mass in the bottom end.
The 1.6L's are a little more plentiful than 1.9L stuff.Good 1.9L stuff is getting real hard to find,even up here in Canada.
1.6L's are also cheaper to repair or rebuild than a 1.9L.
If you want to have fun on a budget,then get a used 1.6L TD,and turn up the fuel.It will make lots of power.If you want more,give it a quick rebuild (rings and rod brgs is all they usually need),redo the head (with some port work) and throw on a Giles pump,some GTD nozzles,a bigger turbo,and an intercooler.It will be plenty fun now. :D
Don't forget gauges,so you don't roast your new engine.
I think you'll find all of the stuff above will cost a fair bit,but still be within your budget.
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If you want to have fun on a budget,then get a used 1.6L TD,and turn up the fuel.It will make lots of power.If you want more,give it a quick rebuild (rings and rod brgs is all they usually need),redo the head (with some port work) and throw on a Giles pump,some GTD nozzles,a bigger turbo,and an intercooler.It will be plenty fun now. :D
How much power (+/-), by the way?! +/-120hp?
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ok so here are my plans then...
1.6TD motor...
GT25R turbo
tubular manifold
-12 oil return (yes i like overkill)
cam
port polish head, 5 angle valve job (should i go oversized valves?)
metal headgasket
Giles pump (anyone got a link)
bigger injectors
EGT probe
im thinking hydro head, adjusting the shims is a pita if you ask me...
and does anyone know if i can use my wideband for tuning it? or will EGT be enough?
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oh, and whats the best eaily attainable intake manifold?
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i've been thinking of going with a set of forged pistons just to take the extra heat, and some custom valves as well
Diesel pistons are a special design so you might have a hard time getting somebody to make some.
Stock turbodiesels have oil squirters that spray on the bottom of the pistons, that seems to be sufficient even for the guys running insane amounts of boost (over 20psi).
Another thought is to cut a notch in the piston tops between the two round depressions, which increases top end HP. I don't know the exact location but some searching here and on the forums at http://www.vwdieselparts.com should turn it up.
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i'd go with a 1.6L TD (thats what i did in my '82), or a 1.9L TD. are you from the states? if you are then the 1.9LTD will be hard to get your hands on.
you could put a 1.9L head on a 1.6L block.
yeah you can do that. I just did. There are a few issues with doing this like bigger precups (you lower the compression slightly) and the intake is different so you have to spend an hour or so modifying it so the turbo will fit (filing down and cutting off protrusions). Also there is a hole in the intake air pipe that the 1.9 manifold has no use for, has to be plugged. Other than that it seems to work (though I haven't tried starting it yet, still working on hooking up the exhaust). I'll let everyone know whether it blows up in my face tomorrow when I turn the key.....
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I'll let everyone know whether it blows up in my face tomorrow when I turn the key.....
Good luck - I'm looking forward to your update :thumbup:
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1.6TD head + TDI bottom end?
A 1.9L block and 1.6L head combo is actually the opposite of my preferred OEM IDI setup. The 1.6 block is a much better revver like a few people have already stated, and the 1.9 head flows better. Hence my setup.
Do you know how much more fun a stock 2.0L 16v is compared to a stock 1.8L 8v? That's like comparing a 1.6L to a 1.9L block respectively, concerning upper RPM performance.
If you get a 1.9 block, keep the 1.9 head that came with it.
However, as others have pointed out, the 1.9L IDIs were almost never sold in the USA so it'll be hard for you to find these parts. A 1.9L IDI head in need of rebuild in Canada may be found for $300-500 CAD. It's hard finding these here too.
You'll do fine with a well ported 1.6L head.
If there's room for oversized valves (I haven't checked), go for it.
With these headwork I'm sure you'll outflow a stock 1.9 head.
If you're going for a hydro head, you may need a hydro block (1986.5 or later).
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so, the motor to build right now seems to be:
1.6 bottom end
1.9 head + cam + p&p
pdi 130 intake manifold
tubular turbo manifold...
now turbo sizing. this is where it gets tricky... originally i was thinking about a GT25R, which is rated to about 250hp. only thing is... its .64a/r which would be laggy... or i can go down to a GT22R... wich is a smaller a/r but, only rated to about 200hp...
but then i see you (malone) compound setup... and now my gears are turning and want to do it... but how do you size them? the perfect spool turbo + bigger turbo to meet your hp goals... so... GT22R+GT25/40R?
ahhh the possibilities are endles!!!
you need to school me up man.... i need to know more about this giles pump too, i want the ultimate pump!
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actually.... i have a k26/to4e 57trim .63 a/r /w stageIII turbine sitting in my shed with about 2k miles on it... :D almost forgot i had that thing... what can i use to spool that puppy up, cause on my 2.0T it wasnt makin 18psi until right before 5k rpm /w 8.5:1 cr... if i were to just run that on a tubular manifold, when would it spool? i know its a 1.6, but the way high compression should bring spool time down a bit right?
id still like to go compound tho, maybe /w a mid sized t3 /w .48 a/r
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Giles contact info can be found in the "vendors" section of this website: http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3100
He's in Markham, Ontario.
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ok so here are my plans then...
and does anyone know if i can use my wideband for tuning it? or will EGT be enough?
I dont believe widebands work on diesels, pretty sure the O2 sensor will get clogged up and readings will be way off. EGT is what you need along with a boost gauge.
-jared
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thanks alot, i sent him an email
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Here is a killer IDI setup
1.6HYD block+crank
1.9 AAZ pistons ceramic coated tops and moly lubed sides
Total seal rings
race ware or ARP studs for rods, mains, and head
Custom rods
1.9TD aaz head, 3 or 5 angle, back cut valves, fully flowed head
Custom intake manifold with velocity stacks
custom tubular equal length turbo manifold
stage 3 cam
Compound turbos
Giles pump, ask for the most fuel possible
I have done all these things except for the custom rods/aaz pistons in 1.6 block. I make all these items as well
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What power figures may that kind of setup produce?
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I have yet to combine all these things, I started to build that very setup for a customer but just when we started he changed his mind and now he wants me to build him a 2litre 16v PD TDI.
My guess for this setup would be somewhere over 200WHP. Really the only thing keeping this setup from hitting 300WHP is fuel. Once our good buddy Giles comes up with twice the fuel we will start seeing huge #'s. I have no doubts that I can take care of the rest :twisted:
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those are some pretty insane numbers. I wonder how much boost the 1.6 can take, provided the head was secured tight enough to handle it. 40-60 psi?
Is it possible to buy moly / ceramic coated pistons ? or would one need to purchase the pistons, and bring it to two seperate shops? Just curious...
any good places in the GTA that will do ceramic coating for a reasonable price?
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those are some pretty insane numbers. I wonder how much boost the 1.6 can take, provided the head was secured tight enough to handle it. 40-60 psi?
Is it possible to buy moly / ceramic coated pistons ? or would one need to purchase the pistons, and bring it to two seperate shops? Just curious...
any good places in the GTA that will do ceramic coating for a reasonable price?
My AAZ will be close to 200WHP on 35-40 psi with PD rods 2 turbos and 18.5:1,I'll have to give you a ride when I get it running.I got my pistons moly/creamic coated as well as turbine housings,etc.Some place in bramptom,not cheap$$ :oops:.
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Do you remember the place in Brampton ? We used to have a place that did them,but they closed up due to the lack of business.Would like to find someone else to do the coatings.
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I hit 37 PSI with my stock-sized GT20 turbo and limited fueling.. exceeding 40 PSI with my next turbo setup and improved fueling may not be a challenge.
I'm mostly concerned about the OEM rods, but you gotta pay to play! I will be limiting fuel during "low" RPM to avoid excess pressure on the rods.
andy2: that's awesome you got PD rods, what is the small turbo you're using? K14?
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Andrew, your avatar pic is the next best thing to a pretzel!
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Monsterturbo.com is where I got it done in brampton.They have two locations for installing and fabricating,They do alot of crazy custom stuff.I'm pretty sure that they do the creamic coating in house,I don't think they out source it :roll:.
I will be running the complete k24(as the small turbo) this time unlike the K24/14 hybrid before :twisted:,Crazy custom stainless intake manifold too.I'll have to take some pics and update my thread :lol:.
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An update would be awesome andy 8) Why stainless for the intake over aluminum? Still using the stock td manifold? I might need to send you one of my custom equal length exhaust manifolds if you are...
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Do you have any contact info for this Monsterturbo place ? Couldn't find anything in the book,or on the web.Never heard of them,and I know most of the shops in Brampton.
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Sorry, heres thier actual website www.monster-turbo.com
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Cool,and thanks.They are about 10 mins away from me,will have to make a trip down to see them.
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My guess for this setup would be somewhere over 200WHP. Really the only thing keeping this setup from hitting 300WHP is fuel.
:shock: :shock:
wheel horsepower!!... 1.6L... diesel... power! :shock: :twisted:
sh!te
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I promise to make it happen as soon as someone gets me more fuel.
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You mean, with the Bosch VE!?
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I don;t care with what pump just want more fuel!!