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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: rs899 on April 03, 2013, 03:23:03 am
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I know that the level is supposed to be above the check hole level on the side (for most of the older trannies used on the MkII). I only add fluid from the top through the speedo cable port.
Has anyone measured the distance from the top of the case to the proper fluid level?
Does anyone have any ideas/fixes for some sort of gauge to watch this level?
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yes the hillbilly site has a deal where you can make a dipstick out of a 3/8" bolt and some washers and nuts. Most here have said that if it is 1/2 way up the gear that is good.
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I wonder if there is some way to take a spare plug and modify it somehow. Sight glass, float? tap a small hole... Only thing is tranny fluid is so viscous and tricky to read.
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There's casting change on the 020, check out brokevw's site for info.
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With the casting change.. it is because the mk1 sits the engine at a very slight different angle than mk2, mk3.
The gear as far as I know does not differ between case generations and thus fluid half way up the gear or slightly more would be a good indicator of enough fluid.
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I figure when it pops out of 5th it's low. ;D
The thing to mind with the casting change is not all transmissions are in there original application,
and there are some that will fit in A1 or A2 chassis.
Actually I'm pretty obsessive over trans fluid level, and I've never had a good trans go bad in any way because of it,
good level, good fluid, good driving habits, they last indefinitely, take away any one of those three and they do not.
The one in my 82 now is noisy but shifts "OK", I have a 7A stashed back east I've got to get someone to mail me
one of these days.
And I could go on about the bad output shaft flange/seal design, there's an interesting history of VW trying,
and mostly failing, to make them not leak/rattle/wear out.
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Mine leak already.. one year to the date almost that i replaced all the trans seals.
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Mine leak already.. one year to the date almost that i replaced all the trans seals.
Feel your pain there.
You can get longer life before leaks, but it's spensive.
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Next time you have accses to the center of the drive flange, put in a 8-1.25 mm x 6mm Allen set screw with some locktite and then replace the final drive seal.
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Next time you have accses to the center of the drive flange, put in a 8-1.25 mm x 6mm Allen set screw with some locktite and then replace the final drive seal.
T ostop the leak and flange play??
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The very late 100mm flanges, with the visibly heat treated spline area(most aren't), and peliquin shim kit are the only way I've found
to (sorta) stop the leaks. The seal surface area of the flange is reportedly harder to decrease wear, and the obvious spline area hardening reduces tendency to
wiggle and side load the seals. This, along with obvious seal wearing of a groove in the flange, is what produces leaks. Differential bearing wear will also produce
a wiggle of the same sort, just from further in. Most of these boxes with over 100K on em wiggle one place or another.
It's an iffy design.
VW made efforts to minimize the leaky nature of em over the course of the 020's life, but it's just sorta part of the deal.
There has been some success with using redi-sleeves on the flange seal contact area but they still wiggle unless
they are sprung pretty strong from behind and the splines/diff bearings aren't worn too far of course.
I wondered briefly about bolting the things in using the removal tool threaded hole as well, but figured that was way too
obvious a solution to at least some of the wiggle to not have been done from the factory, so I decided to not experiment.
I'm still curious though.
I have the most early small seal no spring 90mm setup in mine, I dressed and polished the flange seal surface and
one is weeping more than leaking, but I don't expect that to last. I have yet to hear a flange rattle which is an often
quoted reason for the addition of the springs. I think it was trying to keep them from side loading the seals and leaking
myself, but over the diesel noise maybe one just can't hear the flanges rattle?
If I had a really cherry trans I'd have the later setup with either the heat treated 100mm flanges or
redi-sleeve em. I've dicked around with so many leaks and crap with 020's at this point I think I'd
strongly consider swapping to a newer box as relatively easy as it is these days.
Credit for most of my understanding of this setup goes to brokevw.com and chickenfriend on Vortex.
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This last post is extremely intriguing. I wanted to check out the peloquin shim kit deal that goes in the flanges.. and it seems to do exactly what you suspect will cause the wiggle to stop.. as well as add a touch of an LSD.
However I have a slightly lowered car and although I have 90mm axles.. I fear it will still reach in there and self machine itself out and cause me hell.
There does seem to be quite the extreme leak there however.. A good drip spot EVERY TIME I park the car.. Like I said on fresh everything regarding that sealing business. Even new green sleeve! Gah. PITA. No money to swap my 02A :(
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Just one of those things with an 020 in my experience. They all leak, I try and clean em off now and again so I can see if it gets bad.
I check the oil every other oil change unless it's spotting noticably.
I'd be willing to bet my ass that one could spend the grand+ on a total top notch rebuild with the best parts, and it'd still have loose flanges/diff bearings and be weeping if not leaking in 100K.
Newer trans swap is the way as you said. Maybe next year.
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You know, you could glue the seals in place. I used some special permatex gear oil resistant sealant around the edged of the seals. I did this the second time around because the damn seals leaked AROUND the outside. I also used the nonhardening permatex 2a on the flange caps to keep them in place ( I had a bad experience where 1 popped out and wrecked a cv joint)
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I silicone the caps around the edge too. It will indeed wreck a CV.
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Ay but I do believe earlier discussion was for the flange bushing.. No gluing possible there unfortunately.
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A tiny dipstick would be fantastic. Even my 02J is slowly leaking from the drive flange. It would be nice to be able to quickly check the level before damage is done without having to completely drain and refill the trans (on the later types).
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^^ Yeah that fill level is BS. I try to keep it the 1/2" above the hole, but I'll be damned if I am going to open the top port just to lose 1/2" of good Redline MTL. OTOH, I don't want to run it low.
There's got to be a way to keep a better handle on this.....
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I thought it was just me that had these issues with resealed trans. I do that to every one I get but they all seem to weep. My brother was driving one of my cars when I first experienced the fifth gear blowout. Even though I said not to keep trying for that gear if it popped out, guess what they kept doing until something blew up and rattled like hell inside the tranny. I imagine that tranny was probably done for anyway after it first popped out but still. I don't know what happened but he was able to get it in another gear and limp it home but something was stuck because it wouldn't swith to other gears so I threw it away.
Anyway I am so paranoid now that I drop the oil every few oil changes and refill it as if it was empty to capacity and call it good. Hopefully that isn't a bad habit, haven't had any wet clutches or anything.
I also noticed that on later vehicles I have come across with 90mm flanges and the spring loaded system, with original vw flanges, they had wear marks where the seals are. So I guess best bet is to stagger the seal surface on those. I twice installed repair sleeves in my early vw days and found out in a short time later the seal had worn a groove in those as well.
All the early transmissions that I have come across like the fn and another I forget that I sought out for the gearing, have looked fine at the flanges, the type without the spring load.
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Nah they all leak and wear, it's a less than perfect design I suspect was budget driven.
You can sleeve the seal-worn flanges, and the later one's are heat treated presumably to help prevent that wear, and internal spline wear.
I'm about as paranoid as you on the fluid level.
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you could machine an acrylic plug to plug the trans. It holds up to temp and petrolium products well, it is also come in crystal clear....that is an answer to the above of how to get around checking. Other than that make the dipstick.
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The plug (set screw) would seal one way out of the trans into the flange area, maybe the only way?
Will not keep the final drive seal from being eaten by the drive shaft end.
Super Glue from Gorillia Glue.....................Who Knows What Evil There Is...................? :-X
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you could machine an acrylic plug to plug the trans. It holds up to temp and petrolium products well, it is also come in crystal clear....that is an answer to the above of how to get around checking. Other than that make the dipstick.
is it really that hard to pull ONE screw, pull the cable, wipe off the gear, stick it back in, and then read your oil level?
if the oil is 1/3 of the way up the gear teeth, or higher, then you are golden..
ive never seen the need for a dip stick on my trans, and it leaks a little even..
ill keep pulling the speedo cable to check my oil.. its too easy.
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you could machine an acrylic plug to plug the trans. It holds up to temp and petrolium products well, it is also come in crystal clear....that is an answer to the above of how to get around checking. Other than that make the dipstick.
is it really that hard to pull ONE screw, pull the cable, wipe off the gear, stick it back in, and then read your oil level?
if the oil is 1/3 of the way up the gear teeth, or higher, then you are golden..
ive never seen the need for a dip stick on my trans, and it leaks a little even..
ill keep pulling the speedo cable to check my oil.. its too easy.
not that easy on an 02a/j
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you could machine an acrylic plug to plug the trans. It holds up to temp and petrolium products well, it is also come in crystal clear....that is an answer to the above of how to get around checking. Other than that make the dipstick.
is it really that hard to pull ONE screw, pull the cable, wipe off the gear, stick it back in, and then read your oil level?
if the oil is 1/3 of the way up the gear teeth, or higher, then you are golden..
ive never seen the need for a dip stick on my trans, and it leaks a little even..
ill keep pulling the speedo cable to check my oil.. its too easy.
not that easy on an 02a/j
Were talking about 020 trannies tho ;-p