VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: GTFORZA on March 23, 2013, 12:36:27 pm
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I was experiencing run on when the engine was warmed up and the oil was thinner. I thought it might be the injector pump but I did some homework and found out the crank vent releases oil into the intake causing run on. I remembering seeing fumes coming from my air filter when I shut it off so I disconnected the hose and it was fixed except the oil getting in the engine bay. :P I was looking at doing a catch can setup however I found a valve cover oil baffle at http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+oil+baffle+026-103-547&sku=1196 (http://www.partsplaceinc.com/products/product-detail.aspx?keyword=VW+oil+baffle+026-103-547&sku=1196). I think I might try this before I order a catch can from http://fifteen52.us/shop-2/#!/~/product/category=953531&id=3835746 (http://fifteen52.us/shop-2/#!/~/product/category=953531&id=3835746). Has anyone used the baffle for the "run on" issue. Thoughts? Opinions?
(http://www.partsplaceinc.com/uploads/images/products/large/1196f.jpg)
Pic of the baffle.
(http://images-cdn.ecwid.com/images/185392/9767545.jpg)
Pic of the catch can.
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Are you sure it ran away? If it did how did you stop it?
I had a tired engine in my 85 jetta and I installed that shield, and a self made inline pvc can that had a few stainless steel free flowing scrub balls in it that didn't block airflow. It had a lower center section, hose barb that connects a hose to a nippled fitting where the previous lower blockoff plate is.
I think thats what vw did as a mod to the system.
I checked my setup out and it did catch some oil but it didn't rid the intake of it, and I don't think that is the ultimate goal, I think it has to collect there a little bit.
I now hook up the extra breather hose/shield to my 2 daily drivers with healthy motors just for the hell of it, no catch can on those.
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It's not bad run away it won't hardly rev down when its warmed up but with the hose disconnected it fixes it.
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Every car should have that baffle, but if you have enough blowby to run the car, you probably have bigger fish to fry.
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Add the vent to the front of the block
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Add the vent to the front of the block and then what?
Sent from Outer Space!
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Route a hose from the front of the block to a tee that you put in between the hose that goes from the top of the VC to the top of the air cleaner. This allows those gases in the crankcase to get sucked into the air going to the engine and burn em up. It was a modification on later VW's. I nearly did this on mine today but am chasing oil problems first.
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They added it to aaz and tdi. Also there was a kit for older cars u could get from vw an it was obviously an issue since be kept changing the size of the oil drains and addin them
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Was the pipe from the vacuum pump on the early cars the same kinda thing?
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Was the pipe from the vacuum pump on the early cars the same kinda thing?
No
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does anyone have a pic ov the vent setup
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Go to Page 130 of this manual. Save it to some place on your own machine because the information is golden for us old engine abusers.
www.fostertruck.com/Files/VW_diesel_77-83.pdf
Shows it as you would have it for a stock or additional add on. All you need to do is patch in a hose between your existing vent from the valve cover to the air cleaner box. Simple tee will do it. Then run a hose to the hose that comes from the block to the vacuum pump. Another tee in there and you have simulated the function with the simple addition of two tees and a 2 foot piece of hose.
Ta Da.
Moderator? Can or is this pdf on our stickys? Or FAQ?
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What to do if you don't have a vacuum pump connection at the block (because you have the new style vacuum pump). Drill and tap the block-off plate, and install a nipple?
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If that is your situation then, yep. You could also JY a plate that was used by those of us that had the diaphragm style pump shown in the picture. Drilling your own might allow a smaller diameter fitting and hose to run up to the crossover hose on top. You would just need a different sized barb coming off the larger diameter sized tee.
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Moderator? Can or is this pdf on our stickys? Or FAQ?
Okay.
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here is how i did mine i had major blow by issues so i routed it to that bottle at first to make sure the problem was solved, the power towels in the bottle never got dirty so i reconnected the hose to the intake, and the problem was completely solved, not more excessive oil in the intake and no more run aways. i bought this car in 07 and it had a few issues, 1 was a starting issue because somebody put the 2 copper washers on the banjo bolt both on the same side so it was sucking air into the fuel line. and it also had major run away issues when i'd drive it on the highway it would start blowing all this white smoke out and start pulling like crazy the power was impressive for a 1.6na. It was also an automatic and the old diesel automatics would go into neutral when you left off the throttle, well one day i decided to try driving my new car to work, and i was cruising down the highway when it started to run away, i usually had it set to stay in drive when i was on the highway, but i forgot this day, and when it started running away i left off the pedal, so the transmission went to neutral and the engine just started screaming at max rpm as it fed off its oil. it was really amazing i wish i had recorded it. i pulled off on to the shoulder and contemplated slamming it into drive to stall it then i popped the hood and got out and stared at the engine trying to figure out how to stop it while its sitting there screaming, i noticed all the traffic was going very slow so i looked up, and the entire 4 lane highway was completely filled with dense white/blue smoke all the way up above the tree line, it was amazing my tiny car was sitting there producing this gigantic cloud that had brought traffic to almost a complete hault. then it hit me, and i held my hand over the intake pipe and it stalled. engine was hydrolocked so i had it towed home and my dad and i reringed it. afterwards i had the same issue although less severe. at first i just put the valve cover breather into a soda bottle i cut holes into and filled with paper towels, but when ever i would get on the highway it would have a blow and fill the bottle with oil. so i got the front block breather port off a diesel jetta in the junkyard and installed it and then added a hose that i teed into the existing valve cover vent, and problem solved, i never had any issues again, the car ran amazing after that i drove it for a year or 2 and sold it(regretfully.) but its still kicking and is driven frequently
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/DSCN0381.jpg)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Trev0rbr/1263052895030.gif)
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It never ceases to amaze me how worn out these things can be and still get people around.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Go to Page 130 of this manual. Save it to some place on your own machine because the information is golden for us old engine abusers.
www.fostertruck.com/Files/VW_diesel_77-83.pdf
Shows it as you would have it for a stock or additional add on. All you need to do is patch in a hose between your existing vent from the valve cover to the air cleaner box. Simple tee will do it. Then run a hose to the hose that comes from the block to the vacuum pump. Another tee in there and you have simulated the function with the simple addition of two tees and a 2 foot piece of hose.
Ta Da.
Moderator? Can or is this pdf on our stickys? Or FAQ?
wow that link is amazing. no kidding about the gold bit
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Go to Page 130 of this manual. Save it to some place on your own machine because the information is golden for us old engine abusers.
www.fostertruck.com/Files/VW_diesel_77-83.pdf
Shows it as you would have it for a stock or additional add on. All you need to do is patch in a hose between your existing vent from the valve cover to the air cleaner box. Simple tee will do it. Then run a hose to the hose that comes from the block to the vacuum pump. Another tee in there and you have simulated the function with the simple addition of two tees and a 2 foot piece of hose.
Ta Da.
Moderator? Can or is this pdf on our stickys? Or FAQ?
wow that link is amazing. no kidding about the gold bit
I've had that in my collection for awhile, there is a page with some quick performance estimation figures for acceptable acceleration that is interesting reading.
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18.5 0-60 for 5 spd
16.3 0-60 for 4 spd
Approx. thats slooooooooooow haah
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Not that slow for a bone stock average NA 1.6 really.
We're spoiled ;D
I always thought 0-60 figures were crap on these things with there
propensity toward notchy slow shifting. I usually use a rolling
x-mph to x-mph in one gear for comparison.
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mine did not seem worn out other than the blow by, it had good power for a 1.6na with automatic trans, and also got atleast 40mpg no matter how or where i drove, and always started in the cold. it may have been an issue with the amc head that was on it, im not sure.
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mine did not seem worn out other than the blow by, it had good power for a 1.6na with automatic trans, and also got atleast 40mpg no matter how or where i drove, and always started in the cold. it may have been an issue with the amc head that was on it, im not sure.
Yep, btdt. I had a TD with next to no idle oil pressure and the valves were so loose in the guides it was comical.
Still drove and got decent MPG and power for as long as I wanted to. They just go and go..
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I have a question about splicing into the breather tube to the intake. Is there a reason to tee into this and maintain the hose into the intake on a 1.6 NA as opposed to simply rerouting the hose coming off the valve cover all together down to the front of the block and plugging the hole on the intake manifold? I am planning to do one of these two options to the engine in my caddy, as there seems to be a fair bit of oil blowing by and entering the intake. No runaways yet, but I want to keep it that way...
So is the line into the intake important? I've seen some pictures of, I believe, 1.9's with just a hose coming off the valve cover and down into the front of the block. Any downside to this simpler setup?
Thanks for any thoughts or advice.
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My thoughts and advice. Take or leave both.
Simply routing the hose from the crankcase to the valve cover will not pull the excess pressure out of the engine. That is what venting to the intake is all about. Sure you can vent it to the outside, many do and they all have a smell of oil on them if you talk to them. Ask R.O.R. Actually there is no problem with it. If you were around in the 60's you saw all kinds of cars with that dong hose smoking under the hood.
Taking it into the engine burns it up and that makes it cleaner? Some would say not but I know that the oil residue is not glomming onto the other parts of the engine. And I don't have to smell it coming in the vents as I drive.
I would recommend the total package. That is clean and responsible. But you have to vent it out of the engine. Simply tying the top to the bottom with a hose is going to cause trouble. You will be blowing oil out of the Valve cover in short order I think. Or a lower seal and then what. Tear it down all for the lack of a 3 dollar tee? Splice one in there it will do the job and save you a major headache later.
That will be 2 cents please.
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Those baffles are under 3$ at autohausAZ.
19.95 at parts place, sounds about right.
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Those baffles are under 3$ at autohausAZ.
19.95 at parts place, sounds about right.
;D ;D Shame about those guys...
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My thoughts and advice. Take or leave both.
Simply routing the hose from the crankcase to the valve cover will not pull the excess pressure out of the engine. That is what venting to the intake is all about. Sure you can vent it to the outside, many do and they all have a smell of oil on them if you talk to them. Ask R.O.R. Actually there is no problem with it. If you were around in the 60's you saw all kinds of cars with that dong hose smoking under the hood.
Taking it into the engine burns it up and that makes it cleaner? Some would say not but I know that the oil residue is not glomming onto the other parts of the engine. And I don't have to smell it coming in the vents as I drive.
I would recommend the total package. That is clean and responsible. But you have to vent it out of the engine. Simply tying the top to the bottom with a hose is going to cause trouble. You will be blowing oil out of the Valve cover in short order I think. Or a lower seal and then what. Tear it down all for the lack of a 3 dollar tee? Splice one in there it will do the job and save you a major headache later.
That will be 2 cents please.
Lots of us run a RDT, and if you dont mind your car marking its territory, then you are golden!
i NEVER smell breather gasses.. just diesel exhaust..
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If you were around in the 60's you saw all kinds of cars with that dong hose smoking under the hood.
My 1992 truck came from the factory with the crankcase vented straight to atmosphere. I guess pickups were exempt from a lot of EPA stuff. It's something I've been thinking about trying to "fix" but I haven't decided how to go about doing it.
My VW never has blowby except when the turbo spools up, then it does. I think that's why they started putting those baffle things on the turbo cars, so they're probably necessary for that application, along with the "hockey puck" oil breather.
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Thanks for the reply ORCoaster, sounds like I'll tee into both and should be good.
A few more questions out of curiosity however. In this picture here, is there another hose coming out the back of the hockey puck and going to the EGR system or something? (http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/HPIM1123_zps76a88a37.jpg)
Also, how exactly does tying into the vacuum pump line prevent oil vapors from getting into the intake? Still figuring out these diesels and trying to learn as much as i can about 'em. Thanks.
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I am not familiar with this style of vent so someone else take it from here. Is it that little bit of a nipple looking thing left of the hose clamp?
As for our 1.6's near as I can tell, and by the way I have that similar problem. Air cleaners all oiled up but not quite to running away yet. The piston goes up and down and most of the air coming in goes out the exhaust. Until the engine gets tired and worn out, or in my case breaks a ring on a piston. Then some of that air goes past the piston as compression builds and possibly as it pops off at the ignition point. Now we end up with a crank case that is slowly pressurized.
Oil drain holes in the head double as air vent holes but with a lot of air coming up the oil tends to spray around under the cover and where does it go as well? Out the hose and into the intake. I think that is because the oil holes are in the corner of the head and close to that spot in the valve cover. That is normally not a problem with a diesel as to the cylinder it is just more fuel. More RPM more fuel, More RPM more fuel and soon you are no longer able to control the speed as it suddenly becomes possessed and gets a life of its own. Run away.
So what does adding a hose do? I say it splits the amount of air going up the oil vent holes by a bunch. Out the big vent hole in the front of the engine and without taking oil with it. Oil can now drain into the engine as it should and not spray under the valve cover. No more added fuel, so more RPM no longer equals more fuel and hence you control the speed and no more run away.
At least that is my story and I will only change it if provided enough beer and beer logic to change it.
This is my understanding of the problem and the extra hose solution. You can agree or not. Just don't tell me.
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I am not familiar with this style of vent so someone else take it from here. Is it that little bit of a nipple looking thing left of the hose clamp?
AAZ/TDI style. It looks like a nipple but it is just a blank casting mark, which serves no purpose. They are a bolt on affair to the 1.6's as you can see.
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that is my old 1.6 engine with the setup from the AAZ engine. I don't know if it was the breakin procedure or the hose to the block or both, but I didn't lose a quart of oil in 40,000 miles. I had some in the intake but it was not bad. My thinking was that it would help equalize the pressure all the way around. I just added it as it was a little cleaner than my other idea I made with a hose barb and a pipe tap.
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Yeah, they used a fat hose on the AAZ engine, probably 3/4".
Compared to the 5/8" MK1 hose.
I've been drilling out the blockoff plates and tapping to fit 3/4" NPT and hose on my 1.6 TDs.
The gasser PCV puck will fit on top of the valve cover too, might be the same thing as the AAZ puck.