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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Blue Haze on March 04, 2013, 10:26:17 pm
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I recently install a AAZ motor with supposedly 77k miles. I have noticed that at 2000 rpm it carries only 30# oil pressure. My 1.6 na motor use to carry around 60#. Does the 1.9 AAZ motor carry lower pressure? How much of a problem if there is one will this lower pressure be? The engine runs great with no other problems
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Sounds a little low IMHO - what is the highest pressure it reaches when warmed up? How about at 3500 RPM?
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For a TD motor I think that is fine fully warmed up. I have two cars, one a 1.6NA and the other a 1.6 TD. What you describe is exactly like my two cars. The turbo takes a certain amount of oil pressure and mine fully warm on a summer day at ~3100 rpm runs at about 30-32 psi.(now below 0 air temps it stays around 40 psi) Idle around 7-10 psi with 15w40 oil. Weight of oil you are running will have an affect as well.
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What rodpaslow describes is just about exactly what I'm seeing and w/10-30 wt oil. I think at 2800 rpm I'm holding 35 lbs
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What rodpaslow describes is just about exactly what I'm seeing and w/10-30 wt oil. I think at 2800 rpm I'm holding 35 lbs
I think generally the recommended oil for these engines is 15W40 diesel oil... That can be a bit thick in the winter for some of the folks in the colder areas but given that you're in CA it should be fine year round. Might not be a bad idea to consider switching.
As a side note, is the 10w30 oil you are running diesel rated? While it does exist, 10w30 diesel oil is not particularly common.
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Where one is taking the oil pressure reading is the first question to ask. If it's at the head, probly ok, if it's at the filter flange, less ok.
Yes run 15/40
And I don't know of any reason, other than the turbo and the hyd lifters, that an AAZ should have less pressure really.
It has the larger oil pump the hyd head motors used.
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Your oil pressure is good with 30lbs (approx 2-bar) at 2,000 rpms, when measured at the head. That is right at the spec for oil pressure, but I'd say the 10w-30 is too light for your climate.
As for the type of oil, the AAZ calls for VW spec 505.00 for the oil. I know for a fact that the Castrol Edge (used to be called "syntec") 5W-40 meets VW501.01, 502.00 and 505.00 standards (Im actually looking at the bottle as I type this), and is also an API "CF" rated oil.
That being said, I've been running the Castrol 5W40 syntec/Edge oil in my AAZ for the last 30,000 miles, and before that I was using either the Mobil-1 5W40 Turbo Diesel truck oil or Rotella 5w-40 synthetic. I'd highly reccomend a good factory or MANN/Mahle filter as well (If you are not already).
Whatever oil you decide to run for your perticular climate and driving habbits, make certian it has one of the oil ratings starting with a "C" for the API rating on the jug. (CF, CH ect...)
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I run Rotella 0w40 in all three of the diesel engines in my driveway. 1988 1.6 TD, 1996 1.9 AAZ, 1998 1.9 AHU/TDI
I get 75psi cold start at the head on all three below freezing.
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I had a switch on my 81 that I could toggle between flange and head oil pressure readings on an electric VDO gauge, it was interesting to observe at times.
I never thought the NA's were very hard on oil, the TD's could be in heavy use, AC and hill climbing in the summer back east for instance.
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I'm measuring w/mechanical VDO gauge at the flange. I'll change the oil and filter see if it makes any difference
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At the oil filter flange?! Those are not acceptable numbers...
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Blue Haze, did you ever come to a conclusion on this?
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30 lbs per ft is a little low for 15w40 at the HEAD, probably a little low reading. for the FLANGE its really low, more like 30 lbs/ft at idle(closer to).
i run 5w30 syn and at 2000 rpm im running like 30 lbs/ft and higher at 3000 rpm. although its been 6 months since i hooked up my oil pressure gauge.
vdo is a real good guage, but it is possible gauge is off. if you have a analog oil pressure gauge you can compare readings. electric senders can send faulty readings more often than analog readings, down side; electronic senders cost more, analog setups you need to run a 'oil line' to dash and gauge.
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I have analog oil pressure and coolant temps. Love them.
I run 14psi hot idle at the head on a 0w40 full synthetic on a 500,000+ km AHU
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im getting about 15 psi at hot idle with 5w30 syn. me motor.
having a seperate oil pressure gauge that you can find at an auto parts store (got mine at napa) helps to compare what your reading at dashboard to determine accuracy.
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I had a TD installed in the 81 Caddy that came out of an 85 Jetta, that was in an 81 Jetta, and finally ended up in the 82 Caddy.
But anyway, it was the most worn out VW-D I've ever seen that still ran more or less correctly.
Exactly 1.2psi of 15w40 at the flange, hot, at idle. Bout 25 on the road steady. Less with hard use/high oil temps.
Ran it for it's last 15K miles that way. Improperly rebuilt head and worn IMS bearings from too-snug belt was most of
it's problem. And age.
It made it to 400K though, last drive east to west with it was 37MPG@75mph with the AC on. Used a quart of oil every 500 miles,
if you poured it in to quickly it made a funny glug glug glug noise when it first started up afterwards. Valve guides had
HUGE amounts of play. It still ran OK. Ahh, the memories and miles.
I can't remember if Father rebuilt that one or if it's in the trunk of a Volvo in the woods back east still.
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do 1.6 and aaz run at same oil pressures?
i got what i would call a healthy running motor that came in my 79 rabbit but i can tell something isn't right. 15/40 oil here
it was some supposed vw rebuild that didn't see many miles, it has some vw sticker on it. it is doing the job except what i would call oil pressure issue compared to other used engines i have run.
im going to install an auber electric gage this week but mine is reading about 10 at hot idle and i cruise at 40 when going 70mph, and those numbers are at the head.
i put in a high flow oil pump and replaced the intermediate bearings when i had the engine on the stand and there was no real world difference in readings from before and after?
im going to put my gage on the flange but have a feeling it will be close to spec if thats 29 @ 1900 rpm.
would you use that as the magic number before tearing into things or just run it as long as its spec?
i also replaced the oil pump shaft bushing in the block and put a new seal in the vacuum pump.
if the im bearings are fresh what step of the line would be causing the lower oil pressure?
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doing the mains will boost pressure at flange, the im bearings wont improve oil pressure much.
i know the bentley has the oil pressure sensor minimum in it, rough guesstimate head oil pressure of ~7 psi at hot idle is getting too low. i cannt say for sure at flange, and flange is the best reading point.
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Any excess clearance can cause low oil pressure, the IM bearings are common since people over-tighten the belt.
I don't have any books on the AAZ that I know of, no idea on the oil pressure spec.
One might look at the diff between spec for the 1.6D and an old 1.7 or 1.8L gasser and see how that ratio looks,
then extrapolate something with specs for an ABA 2L gasser. Or one might find the spec in a book for a Canadian car
but that's no fun.
I don't think your numbers are any concern, I'm 22ish idle and 60ish at speed at the flange I noted yesterday, 140K or so
on Rotty-T 15/40 every 5K since new fwiw. I don't remember what it was like out of the crate, and it's sans-turbo now.
Many people teach that idle PSI is of little importance as long as there is some, and it jumps up to 20 or 30 when
RPM rises. I wouldn't sweat yours if it starts up when it's cold and isn't consuming a ton of oil.
What brand oil pump did you use? Note that in many cases though possibly not VW-D as I've never seen a worn pump
personally, high volume does not mean high pressure. There's a pretty old debate about such things.
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doing the mains will boost pressure at flange, the im bearings wont improve oil pressure much.
i know the bentley has the oil pressure sensor minimum in it, rough guesstimate head oil pressure of ~7 psi at hot idle is getting too low. i cannt say for sure at flange, and flange is the best reading point.
This is as far off of a good comment as possible. The head is the best spot to take a reading as it is the last place to get oiled and the first to lose pressure when a problem persists.
IIRC bentley spec is 18psi at 2,800RPM at the flange for oil pressure. I am not for sure on that as I did it by memory but I know they do not have an idle spec.
The IM shaft bearings are crucial to oil pressure. Maybe the most crucial. They are like a cam bearing down there and when overtightened they flake away, leaving a giant gap for oil to leak out of. 10x that of a main or rod bearing. When you lose pressure there then it loses more pressure further up into the head.
If the crank is older and has been polished it could have too much clearance to yeild better numbers than what you have. Also if someone rebuilt it and didn't seal the squirters it could be leaking off pressure there.
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I haven't pulled as many apart as some of you guys, but even not well cared for examples that I have, I haven't seen much in the way of wear
other than on the IMS bearings, presumably from belt tension error. The bottom is really robust on these things within the bounds of
mostly stock. Heads wear out, rings break, cylinders scuff, but the crank and rods are pretty solid if they are even vaguely cared for in my
experience. Except for those damn IMS bearings.
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wolf walker, I kinda sick about the whole thing. I'm going to call the vendor where I got the motor but it is past the 90 day warranty period. I did chg oil to rotella 15-40 today looks like the pressure may have came up 5# at most. 12-15# at idle something like 27-30# at 2000 rpm and about 35# at 2700 or 70 mph.
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If you paid a ton for it especially, I'd ***, but I'd have the book-spec in hand to quote before ***ing,
and if they have a decent Better Biz Bureau rating, tell you will be filing a complaint if they don't step up.
I'd call em too, but if they say tuff *** I don't think I'd loose too much sleep over it. Try and be cool about it
though.