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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: DieselBalz on February 03, 2013, 02:33:35 pm
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Its been awhile, hello errbody, got a few questions for ya's. I removed my cone filter when I noticed that I had oil leaking out of the tube. It has also been leaking out of the pvc tube on the top of the valve cover. (G60)
I fear ring job (208k on the motor). However before I went tumbling down the rabbit hole, I wanted to get you guy's opinion. Its a 91 Eco, it does have the baffle. Could this be a PVC issue? Is there anything I should look at before considering a light rebuild? It starts fine, runs fine, burns a little oil, and overall runs great. Is there something I could do..like maybe a catch can or something to keep the oil at bay?
Thanks!
Edit: Something else I wanted to add. It is also leaking out of the little nipple that usually runs to the TD pumps. I used it to feed my boost gauge. It has clogged up the tube and consequently my boost gauge doesnt work.
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I would run a catch can that has an external level dealio. So that you can then effectively record data and how much oil is being shot out of the PVC.. I have one coming in the mail for just this EXACT issue with my M-TDI AHU (317k miles).
I figure the PCV is really only good for an engine with litle to no blow-by.. because once there is some the oil just goes along for the ride and the PCV is pretty much a straight shot back to the intake.. and because you run a cone (like me), i is likely dirty from belt throw-off (like mine does) and therefore is making a slight vacuum in the intake tube (like mine was). Making it even more perfect for the oil to not leave suspension and make its way to the intake tract.
Get a catch can, if it runs fine you likely just need an upgraded PCV setup, like a catch can ;). Lots of cars run them, I think most should to ensure NO oil has the possibility to get back in the intake.
I took my turbo intake hose off, and am extremely surprised I do not have a run away every time I start the car...... LMAO SO MUCH OIL IN THERE!
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I'd at least test the compression.
I can't get wunderground.com to access the WX at Aplha Quadrant Sector 001, so I can't say if cold temps will ground you... but when my rig with 208,000mi got bad blowby, it wasn't long before it wouldn't start in the cold (even with a block heater).
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He's in the warm sunshine state of Florida ;)
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He's in the warm sunshine state of Florida ;)
Thanks for clarifying. Also, what catch can did you go with? Gotta link?
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Yessir, SHINY TOO!
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/200839079064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_2403wt_1202
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So im going with a catch can, found some DIY's and I have a pretty cool aluminum thermos I am gonna use. My questions is, should I delete the hockey puck all together? Just run my hose directly from the little rubber grommet the hockey puck plugs in to right to the catch can?
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No, still run the puck, and replace it while you are there. It'll keep what little oil it saves in the engine.
Also, considered a Provent? Plumb into the block off plate, run a check valve, and you won't ever have to drain it. The thermos idea is a great DIY solution, which you can do the check valve drain mod on also. Just don't forget to loosely pack some oil catching media in it.
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Ill take some pics of the the thermos and where I think I am gonna place it all. I was gonna go with some "Chore boy" copper pots and pan scrubber as the collection media. Its nice and loose and I wont fear it breaking down and going into the turbo. I like the idea of the check valve, but the thermos has a pretty cool pouring system that will make draining it a snap.
On a Mk2, any recommendations for mounting? I have eyeballed a spot in the back of the engine dept Im gonna go snap a few pics, and show ya where I am thinking of mounting it. Get some feed back.
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The can. Going to mount it upside down with the inlet drilled center. Outlet off to the side.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan1.jpg)
Push button open and close.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan3.jpg)
Thinking of using a large hose clamp to mount it to that C clamp looking thing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan5.jpg)
A further back shot
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan6-1.jpg)
Whaddya think?
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Well scratch the DIY can. Went to ace to get all the little fittings, over 55 bucks! Ill be ordering on the ebay.
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I think mine was $6 including the hose, but it's not the greatest materials.
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Not sure if I posted this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/200839079064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648) here yet? Or another thread. IO got this one, very nice thick aluminum.
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The can. Going to mount it upside down with the inlet drilled center. Outlet off to the side.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan1.jpg)
Push button open and close.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan3.jpg)
Thinking of using a large hose clamp to mount it to that C clamp looking thing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan5.jpg)
A further back shot
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/catchcan6-1.jpg)
Whaddya think?
i think running it mounted next to the exhaust is the worst idea ive ever seen..
there is enough heat there to really burn stuff up..
i dont think that right next to a HOT exhaust system, is the best place to mount an oil recovery can..
i would mount it up towards the front of the engine. there is a block off plate on the front of the engine that you can drill and tap, install a fitting, and then BAM, you have a spot to drain the oil back into your engine, out of the catch can..
when i installed my can, i ran the hockey puck on the head, and the outlet of the hockey puck to the top of the catch can.. then i ran another line from the BOTTOM of the catch can, to the port on the front of the block, next to the oil filter flange.. then i ran the outlet of the catch can to the atmosphere..
used clear tygon tubing for all of it.. the CCV inlet, and oil outlet hose were both BLACK.. the CCV outlet hose tho, was completely clear for the longest time.. never had oil drip from my breather hose after the addition of the small catch can..
also, its said you NEED a check valve in the drain line, but i never had one, and it still worked fine.. i never drive my car long enough for the catch can to fill clear up, before shutting the engine off, and having all the oil drain back to the crank case..
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How does water get through that hose when it is kinked like that?
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How does water get through that hose when it is kinked like that?
it doesnt :P
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I havent had any issues with the cooling system, but you guys are right, I need to do something about that. Its been that way since I purchased the vehicle. I have a replacement heater core for it. But here in Florida there is little motivation to install it.
Thanks ROR for your...enthusiastic disapproval of my proposed spot for the catch can. That is why I posted the pics, to get some feed back. However, I do not want to drill into the block or drill anywhere else other than to mount the can. Any other suggestions for placement? I am thinking that the hose coming from the puck to the can needs to be short and angled down to the catch can. The return hose can be whatever.
Anyone else got pics of their already installed, not drilled into the engine, pics of catch can placement?
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Not sure if I posted this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/200839079064?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2648) here yet? Or another thread. IO got this one, very nice thick aluminum.
I ordered the exact same one. There were cheaper ones on the ebay, but they were not as polished and didnt look like I could open them to inspect the inside, change packing, or have the fluid level indicator. Nice recommendation.
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(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/HPIM1123_zps76a88a37.jpg)
This shows where it goes. Not something hard to do. 2 bolts and a drill and tap. I have the one I made I would sell you *if I can find it* so all you have to do is unbolt and add a hose and hose clamp...and bear the horrible Florida cold to put it on.
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(http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b531/the_man_53/HPIM1123_zps76a88a37.jpg)
This shows where it goes. Not something hard to do. 2 bolts and a drill and tap. I have the one I made I would sell you *if I can find it* so all you have to do is unbolt and add a hose and hose clamp...and bear the horrible Florida cold to put it on.
see where the block breather hose is bolted on? you can make up a plate to go there.. drill the plate and tap it for a fitting..
NEVER did i say anything about drilling the block..
where were you going to be draining back to the block with the catch can on the back of the engine? there is no magical port back there..
diaphragm pumps used that port as a vent.. if you snag a vent fitting off an older engine, you wont have to drill or build squat..
do you REALLY think its a good idea to mount something that large to your EXHAUST MANIFOLD? i wouldnt add any extra parts to vibrate around, and i would avoid having oil that close to a burning hot exhaust manifold and turbo.. just doesnt seem like the best idea to me, but im open to hear why it is or is not a great spot to put the catch can..
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I did consider the heat factor. It was another reason I decided to post the pics. I have zero plans to put it back there now. I had only considered it because it was the shortest distance, and there was a space I could possibly mount the can.
I also do not want the oil that is caught going back into the crank case. I want to be able to measure how much oil she is blowing. Another reason is if the packing starts breaking down, I don't want it going straight into the engine. I do appreciate the pic though. If I was gong to do that sort of set up, it does look easy.
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I did consider the heat factor. It was another reason I decided to post the pics. I have zero plans to put it back there now. I had only considered it because it was the shortest distance, and there was a space I could possibly mount the can.
I also do not want the oil that is caught going back into the crank case. I want to be able to measure how much oil she is blowing. Another reason is if the packing starts breaking down, I don't want it going straight into the engine. I do appreciate the pic though. If I was gong to do that sort of set up, it does look easy.
whats the point of an oil separator, if you arent going to let it do its job, and drain back to the engine? these things are made to remove the oil from the ccv gasses, and circulate the oil back into the oil pan, where it belongs..
why do you want to measure the oil coming out? do you have a vac leak or bad brake booster? both will cause quite severe blow-by..
just trying to help here, not question your logic.. you obviously have your reasons.
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Look at it as having dual purpose. Get the oil off of my beautiful valve cover, intake, turbo and as a bit of a diagnostic tool. If my blow-by is minimal, then great. If the can starts filling faster, then I may have a problem developing with one of the above you mentioned, or the rings.
You are correct, i do have my reasons. Appreciate your as always passionate assistance with these old dubs.
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another thing, if these engines cant get the blow-by out of the engine fast enough, they will literally SWEAT oil from excessive crank case pressure.
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Not every catch can drains back to the block. If you have a can that NEEDS a drain because it fills up that much.. I think you have other issues.. lol
Kevin, calm the hell down with your outrageous replies.
If you do not require a drain you could mount the can anywhere you wanted. Run a tube from the top of the cam cover to the can, and then from the can back to the intake tract. Problem solved. Lots of space over by the filter.
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I ordered the one that you linked above. Should get it next week. Im also going to take the opportunity to re-plumb my boost gauge line, and reroute the heater core bypass so its not kinked like it is now. I do hate the spaghetti mess of hoses and wires under the bonnet. Im not gonna shave the bay, but am going to try and add some order to the engine compartment.
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The key to stopping clutter is to try and have everything follow the same path. Clearly a shaved bay is not practical at all... They get rid of everything that is needed for daily use lol.
Re route the things that cross over other stuff and maybe hit it with a pressure washer and some soap.. You'll be surprised how good it can look!
Even just some nicely routed fuel lines makes it looks stellar lol.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/88%20Jetta/20130102_203411.jpg)
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Done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/BalzOnYer4Head/IMAG0211.jpg)
I also redid the heater core bypass, ran new boost gauge line, and the wiring of gauges/radio mentioned in the other thread.
Thanks for the assist!
Edit: I didnt know what that little plug does, and after cleaning out that piece, found it was lined with copper. So I kept it. What is that for?
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that breather line from the engine is pretty small.. might cause pressure issues..
you need big breather line (to let the gasses slow down, and have the oil drop out of suspension) from the valve cover to the can, and back to the turbo intake..
you DO NOT want to run any smaller breather line than what it came with factory..
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That is the line that comes with the oil can, it is 3/4 ID iirc??
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The line coming from the valve cover and the first part of the line leaving the can is the tubing that came with. The bigger piece that goes back to the intake is a bit of tubing from my local "Ace Hardware" as well as the fittings I used to make it all work. I believe the tubing with the kit is 3/8 as the bigger piece is 5/8 with 3/8 ID.
The piece from the valve cover is whatever diameter the hockey puck grommet is (i cant remember right now) threaded to 3/8 barbed elbow. Then the piece back to the intake, using a piece of the original hose is 5/8 barbed to 3/4 threaded elbow I believe.
Have used it for a full week with my normal daily work grind, which includes about ten minutes of surface streets and 15 min at either highway speed, or stop and go traffic, and no issues. No leaks and no new oil anywhere else.
Again, good recommendation.
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What happened next?
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I was at my hardware store for about an hour today and I came up empty handed..
I have the AHU, and it has 7/8" for its CCV puck and the fitting back on the intake tube too..
Running 7/8" tube is pretty ridiculous.. specially when i will need like 3 feet of it running around. What to do?!
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Downsize at the puck to 5/8 inch and adapt as needed on either ends. Should not be a volume or velocity problem with smaller diameter.
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So I'd need a tube to fit the puck and adapter.. down to another size tube to the can, from the can to another adapter and then from the adapter to the intake?
Sounds like it will be pretty fugly. I had this idea, but it was gonna be ugly as hell.
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It's damn hard to make that stuff not-ugly, don't feel bad.
I have a hose that's shaved down, was heated, inserted INTO the
fitting on my puck, then oil rated adhesive sealant holding it form the outside.
Hard to find oil rated hose in the right sizes too.
I keep threatening to pipe it in EMT or such. ;D
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Yeah.... frig.
I feel better about it now lol. I'll get'er done and definitely post up a picture.