VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: wdkingery on January 07, 2013, 07:07:44 pm
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Ok I got into a hurry and had to dump 5 gallons of unfiltered atf in the tank. Well, I think my pump is passing a kidney stone. Mtrans always told me never to run an unfiltered batch.
It's like a wheel is about to fall off.. Kind of like a death wobble. You would never guess it's the IP. Hell maybe it's not, but I'm thinking it is. It didn't start till I backed the throttle return screw way down, cause the idle just won't go below 2000 rpms anymore. Then the death wobble @ top speed. Comes and goes. For a year now, 5th gear causes a herky jerky @ exactly 31 mph. Below or above is fine, but that specific frequency gives fits. It seems related to that. The motor makes strange sound on decel sometimes. I'm wondering if atf in large doses doesn't have enough lubrication. Will top off with motor oil in the morning, see if it helps.
On an unrelated note, Something fell down in the tranny peep hole and gave whatever has the TDC mark (flywheel or clutch idk) quite a few scars. Strange noise from hole now.
Long walk on cold night down major highway seems imminent this semester.
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Long walk on cold night down major highway seems imminent this semester.
Get CAA/AAA now. lmao.
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Get CAA/AAA now. lmao.
HAHA HAHA! My old man's got a Wagon and an F two fitty if need be. I'm hoping it passes. Still runs fine.
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The 31 mph in fifth bothers me.
Why are you lugging the crap out of the engine like that?
There are harmonic vibrations set up at certain speeds and the low thirty's is one of them, the other being in the upper 60's.
I think you need to pull wheels and check bearings and then lug nuts for the ability to stay tight.
Does the car act the same in fourth gear when RPM's are a bit higher? If so, check the tires for a blown belt.
My son had one on his Dodge a while back and we would have never noticed it if it wasn't for some strange lighting on it one night.
My bet is on wheels not being tight to the backs of the drums or discs. There money down = 25 cents
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My rabbit did a little death wobble/ herky jerky when one of the rear wheels was about to fall off due to a bad bearing. I could wiggle the tire almost 1" back and forth, it felt really strange when driving..Glad I changed it, literally a mile longer I bet it would've fell off. It was the weirdest feeling.
So, driving at 1200rpm in 4th is not a good idea? ;D I'm guilty of doing that once in awhile, I guess the torque gets the best of me. at 30 mph 3rd seems a little too high rpm for cruising, so I usually do 4th, on flat ground (no accelerating). Otherwise 3rd it is. Oh the joy of a 4 speed...
Oh, and I think ATF should have plenty of lubricity, but it's just so much thicker than diesel...
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why on earth do you shift 5th gear SOO EARLY?!
you are LUGGING THE CRAP out of your car, even if you had an old crappy CG code 4spd trans..
your engine, and fuel economy would be MUCH happier if you shifted higher.. these engines dont even make peak power till 2500 rpm.. FWIW, you can run these engines ON THE GOVERNOR (stock governor) for the rest of its life, and not damage a single thing.. the stock governors are set soo low that you would never EVER hurt one of these things..
ive got a powerful engine, and i dont even shift that early. my engine is lugging its guts out @ 30mph in 5th gear..
i dont shift 5th gear until around 40mph most of the time..
i do have an ACN trans tho.. 3.67 final drive, and a .75 5th gear.. 2450rpm @ 60mph..
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ive got a powerful engine,
i do have an ACN trans tho.. 3.67 final drive, and a .75 5th gear.. 2450rpm @ 60mph..
Same here on both accounts. ACN mated to an 11mm M-TDI, I can shift to 5th at 32-35 mph if I choose and accelerate from there as well.
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I don't normally shift into 4th that early, but once in a while I will cruise around 35 (maybe not as low as 30) in 4th if I am not accelerating or going up a hill. I don't shift into 4th until 40 or 45 either, not till 55-60 if I need to get going fast.
I've got a GP code trans so it's not as bad as the GC., but yeah, I know the difference between lugging the crap out of an engine and just cruising.
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I think he does 5th gear at snail speed just because he can. Like tyb525 says it is the torque we drive not the HP. We can accelerate from 35 in the upper gears and it may not hurt anything. Not like a gasser that would not have good oil pressure in the lower end and tend to wear stuff out. Our diesels don't rev high in the first place, unless you drive them that way.
I generally use the 10,20,35 and 45 speeds as upshift points in my FF trans Rabbit.
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Like tyb525 says it is the torque we drive not the HP.
They only make the torque 500 rpm lower than their gasser brethren ;)
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Hahaha sorry I'm late to the "here's when I shift party" Lol.
I hit 5th gear sometimes as early as 20 mph, depending on what my top speed is going to be. If the speed limit is only 25, I'm gonna be in 5th by 25. If I'm in a 45 mph zone, but traffic is only doing 20,I'm in 5th. Soon as traffic breaks loose, sorry for the people behind me but ill likely let her dig out of the hole in 5th. Maybe drop back to 4th and wind it on out if I am causing a disturbance.
But once I hit the highway, straight to the floor she goes. Speed limit half way home is 70 mph, and I can get away with 76-78 all day, so I just pin it down. Rarely have to lift up, as that's about all she'll do.
Anyway, back on topic: I dumped 2ish gallons of motor oil in the tank today before my 100 mile trip; totally solved the problem. Either my ip is addicted to motor oil, or a 70/30 atf/diesel mix does not provide enough lubrication over prolonged periods.
Best way to describe it would be like turning the key off between the power pulse of each cylinder. I believe whatever plunger is inside that pump was sticking, from lack of lube :-(
Motor oil fixed it. For now.
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I have run on straight ATF, albeit clean stuff.. in a liter jug.. but still pure ATF none the less.
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I'm wondering if atf in large doses doesn't have enough lubrication.
am i drunk in the morning or did i just read this right???? :P Unless your ip is any bigger than everyone else's, you should be fine. I'd be more concerned about whatever you dropped in the tranny hole...(ewww)
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bwahahahaha
Also,,, maybe it was because you had a thick ATF in there..? Viscosity varies up to like 30w
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Like tyb525 says it is the torque we drive not the HP.
They only make the torque 500 rpm lower than their gasser brethren ;)
n/a's dont make torque...
what torque they do make, is @ 2500 revs..
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5% biodiesel is enough lube for ANY pump...
any ATF in your fuel is more than enough lube..
if your pump wont run right unless it has thick fuel in it, then its shot, and needs rebuilt, or more likely, just replaced because everything inside it is now worn beyond spec..
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Lmao... Stubborn mule.
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5% biodiesel is enough lube for ANY pump...
any ATF in your fuel is more than enough lube..
if your pump wont run right unless it has thick fuel in it, then its shot, and needs rebuilt, or more likely, just replaced because everything inside it is now worn beyond spec..
AMEN BROTHA!
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Like tyb525 says it is the torque we drive not the HP.
They only make the torque 500 rpm lower than their gasser brethren ;)
n/a's dont make torque...
what torque they do make, is @ 2500 revs..
I can tell this rabbit has more torque down low than a gasser. Even if the numbers don't show it, I can tell it does cause I have driven a gasser before. Diesel naturally have more low rpm torque than gas, even n/a diesels..
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Be it a small bit or only 500 rpms you know you can get away with a shift to that higher gear and baby the acceleration to get it up to speed. A diesel will pull it off where a gasser may buck and jump or stumble at the attempt. Not to mention starve out on oil pressure. That has been my experience so far. I drive both gas and diesel and I sneak by without downshifting more often in the town traffic in the diesel.
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Be it a small bit or only 500 rpms you know you can get away with a shift to that higher gear and baby the acceleration to get it up to speed. A diesel will pull it off where a gasser may buck and jump or stumble at the attempt. Not to mention starve out on oil pressure. That has been my experience so far. I drive both gas and diesel and I sneak by without downshifting more often in the town traffic in the diesel.
what are you going to starve of oil pressure? and how are you going to accomplish it? the oil pump is pumping whenever the engine is running..
only time you really have to worry about starving the engine of oil, is extended high rpm operation.. not extended low rpm operation.
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Hot oil is thin, and RPM is low so net result is ultra low pressure at the top of the engine and degrades through the engine from there or no? Perhaps this is inverse to the engine in my ford that gets its oil up top first. I had the crank wear excessively and had to replace it.
How did it wear out? Driving in Overdrive at low speeds instead of downshifting to say 3rd gear.
Should have been rapping it up rather than down.
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I dislike any engine design but that of the diesel VW 4cyl OHV water cooled ;)
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Man all those MPG lovers are ruining their engines, they all speak of the wonders of keeping engine rpm's as low as possible.
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Cost me close to 1200 for the engine rebuild and I thought then, How many MPG did I save doing this behavior? Not nearly enough as the crank went about 100K.
Experience has taught me much and driving a little higher RPM over dogging it is one of the many lessons learned. OIL won't move if a pump isn't pushing it around.
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alright well, a few hundred miles later, she cleared out
i think it was the friction material in the ATF that caused the problem.
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alright well, a few hundred miles later, she cleared out
i think it was the friction material in the ATF that caused the problem.
ive run my car on PURE atf without issues..
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Pure black atf?
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Pure black atf?
it was far from brand new..
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Oh well that gave my ip a heart attack lol.
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How long have you been running this home-brew fuel? ;)
I was extremely interested in it about 9 months ago.. but then found out the DI engines are affected way more by the materials in motor oil than their IDI brethren.
I know it is not the pump that will be affected, as they are identical.. but the pistons seem to have issues with coking rings, have you noticed hard starts or loss of compression?
Have you had anything apart to inspect for wear or coking?
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I was under the impression the DI dislikes the wmo because if injector coking, as the injector is in the hot spot. But frankly, my injectors de-coke if I run the pics out if the car.. In Town she gets to smoking (worse) until a good highway run.
I have not torn anything down other then pulling the injectors a few times to clean them. They get little upside down volcanoes built up around the tip of the injector that causes a poor spray pattern, which increases smoke, decreases fuel economy, and decreases power.
But they only coke up but so much, and I can still do 80 mph sometimes, and still get 33 mpg with the throttle all the way to the floor most of the time. And I even removed the wide open throttle stop screw entirely.
I only got 300 psi compression after my rebuild (so my crummy prothe compression tester says) but I don't have any hard starts or anything.
I'd say, after 10, 000 miles and @ least 200 gallons of various oils (atf and both diesel and gasser motor oil being the lions share) that the only thing to worry about is the pump. Good filtering is essential, as I learned at the start of this thread. Other than that, I haven't had any ill side effects until about a week ago.
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If I was going to do it, I'd be running primarily running W85. Or Black Diesel. A mixture of 85% Waste Motor Oil and 15% low grade gasoline.
I'd also be utilizing a centrifuge.
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That's almost exactly where I am now; I run 85 motor oil to 15 gasoline.. And that's it! Didn't get any diesel at all in the tank last time. And the centrifuge is a great idea, but I didn't have the $160
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Actually the centrifuge is that much, however you also have to have a motor & other odds n ends to make it all work, so you'll be looking at about $400+. Still a bargain & nothing beats a centrifuge to clean oils. I can't believe I ran semi clean oil, all those years, without having any problems.
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I've ran pure unfiltered used diesel oil before.. but that was on a 900,000 km 1.6D... Not about to run that through the M-TDI lol.
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Sounds like W85 is 85% motor oil and 15% gasoline, but anything below 85% motor oil should use #2 diesel instead of gas.
After some reading it looks like a good method to use (besides centrifuge) is buy home water filters and put them in series like: 50, 50, 20, 10, 5, 1 micron. And then filter that through a really good fuel filter. The dirty oil is stored in a big tank like a fuel oil tank where it can settle, and after settling for awhile (a week or two?) the top half is pumped out into a smaller container like a big air compressor tank, that can be pressurized to somewhere around 40 psi. Then a regular gas pump handle is fitted and the fuel is pumped right into your tank.
I'm not sure when the gas or diesel gets introduced in the process, maybe when the oil is pumped into the smaller tank after filtering?
I'm more interested in trying this than WVO, because there isnt a problem with gelling or having to heat it up.
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I think there is a difference in the type of filtering paper or cloth inside those home filters. Remember they are made to filter water and not a fuel base compound. If I find the caution link I will update later tonight. Somewhere I read it was not a good thing to do. Probably from the makers of the fuel filters. LOL
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I'm gonna pull it all down when it finally isn't worth fixing, or I graduate I am two years. Yall Will get to see what 30,000 miles of fuel abuse looks like in the end.
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I think there is a difference in the type of filtering paper or cloth inside those home filters. Remember they are made to filter water and not a fuel base compound. If I find the caution link I will update later tonight. Somewhere I read it was not a good thing to do. Probably from the makers of the fuel filters. LOL
Well I thought the same thing too, but I clearly saw in his picture home water filters....I can't find the page at the moment..
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When I think about the use of water filters to filter an oil base product the hairs on my neck get all fuzzy. Think about it. We have a filter in place that is specifically designed to stop the water and let the oil flow. Now we are going to allow that to go right on through now by using a water permeable filter, one that passes it. I know he is using waste motor oil and the risk for water in the oil is a lot less than the waste vegetable oil I like to run but it could be there.
The processor of the oil I use has both the water removal by heating it up and vacuuming it out. Then he runs that product through a commercial centrifuge. He uses as much of it as the rest of us. So he really does a good job on it. I have had 5 gallon cubies sit for a month before needing them and that oil never changes state. Always golden and no separation at the bottom or top.
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Seems like a centrifuge would pay for itself over time, less filters to replace and it sounds like they have to replaced fairly often, at least the coarser filters.
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It all depends on how well they pay attention to the initial filtering in the sock filters or what ever they use to get the product down to 10 microns clean. The guy I use has several staged filters and takes his down to 2 micron for some personal reason.