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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: akuma406 on January 03, 2013, 06:51:43 am
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Well, I would like your help, because I can not tune the Bosch VE. I explain:
My 406 2.1 td pump comes with a lucas epic electronica, and made the swap to Bosch VE, changing nozzles and tubes XUD9 1.9 td, 2 pumps I have seen, a source of XUD9, and another of a XUD with two mods , changed piston 9mm to 10mm, and wedges in the governor, 4mm.
Removing the electronic pump rpm box fails 3000rpm and the needle drops to 0, then I do not see many grabs the engine rpm.
I tested with both bosch see, and I have the same problem, lack power at high rpms.
With Lucas epic, in 3rd, right up to 120kmh, and short injection at 5300 rpm at 125 kmh.
With both bosch see, goes very well with 100 kmh, but the hits and misses and engine will not run, does not exceed 100kmh seems fault injection. Both the same problem.
E regulated all screws, no improvement.
I tried other injectors, lucas, and no improvement.
E relocated the lucas epic, and the engine is fine.
What happens?
Off point? The pumps are deployed to ear, and varied progress several times but no improvement, the same problem in 3rd to 100kmh, the engine fails as if there were no oil.
Insufficient supply of oil? I will change the oil filter when you can, to see if there is improvement, but has little time. . . .
Thank you very much and see if you can help me, because there are more people with this swap, and no one has this problem, and the Bosch is much better.
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:'(
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the english translation is kind of hard to understand, and you are swapping parts from engines that the majority of us have never seen or heard of before, maybe pictures or something will help?
for example:
the original pump is this electronic piece of crap made by lucas because it is not upgradable
i replaced it with the older mechanical pump from a 1.9 that was modified, but it would not rev higher
then place a picture of each pump underneath each comment. honestly my only language is english and i am not good with it on the internet since i just type as i think which does not always end up being coherent.
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No habla either, but I think you got the idea - seems the VE swap dies over 3000rpm. Sounds something like starvation.
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Check that, maybe the tach dies above 3000 and the engine runs crappy at high speed.
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maybe he needs a lift pump and better fuel filtration..
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Intentare ser lo mas simple posible.
Bomba lucas epic : 3ª velocidad, 125kmh a 5300rpm, coje sin problemas
Bomba bosch ve 1: 3ª velocidad 100kmh a +- 4000rpm, a 100 kmh el motor falla y no acelera mas.
Bomba bosch ve 2, kit juntas nuevas, mod gobernador, embolo 10mm: 3ª velocidad 100kmh a +-4000rpm, el motor falla y no acelera mas.
motor 2.1 td idi 12 valvulas 110cv, bomba lucas epic electronica (muy mala, muchas fugas gasoil, y cableado se deshace) Turbo garret t2, a 1.2bar, + chip @ +-130cv.
I try to be as simple as possible.
Lucas epic pump: 3rd speed 125kmh at 5300rpm, smooth grabs
Bosch VE Pump 1: 3rd gear 100kmh at + - 4000rpm at 100 kmh the motor fails accelerates.
Pump Bosch VE 2, new gaskets kit, governor mod, 10mm plunger: 3rd gear 100kmh at +-4000rpm, the motor fails accelerates.
idi 2.1 td engine 12 valves 110HP, lucas epic pump electronics (very bad, many oil leaks and wiring melts) Turbo garret t2, to 1.2bar, + @ +-130hp chip.
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5633/040120131450.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/145/040120131450.jpg/)
Cabeza
head
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9271/16062011792.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/16062011792.jpg/)
Bomba lucas epic, cuando la repare.
Lucas epic pump, when the repair.
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1667/20062011826.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/20062011826.jpg/)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5977/20062011823.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/20062011823.jpg/)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2583/20062011828.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/20062011828.jpg/)
Con los años y el calor, se deshacen los cables y problemas.
Tambien se cambian juntas a menudo, muchas fugas.
Muy caras de reparar, reparacion barata +- 500€
Reparacion en casa oficial +- 1.200€ . . . .
Over the years and heat, melt the wires and problems.
Also changed together often many leaks.
Very expensive to repair, repair cheap + - 500 €
Official home repair + - 1.200 €. . . .
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7775/94414349.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/691/94414349.jpg/)
for pieces
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2421/040120131446.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/040120131446.jpg/)
Al sacar la bomba lucas electronica, el cuadro indica fallo motor, y la aguja al pasar de 3000rpm cae a 0. No afecta al rendimiento motor, solo no ves mas alla de 3000rpm.
When removing the pump lucas electronics, the table indicates engine failure, and going from 3000rpm needle drops to 0. It does not affect engine performance, just do not see beyond 3000rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VI0FY0580 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4VI0FY0580)
Bosch ve 1, sin abrir, procede citroen evasion 1.9td, xud9, bomba y soporte bomba, inyectores, tubos, polea.
Bosch ve one, unopened, comes 1.9TD Citroen Evasion, XUD9, backing pump and pump, nozzles, tubes, pulley.
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8686/040120131457.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/040120131457.jpg/)
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3117/040120131444.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/040120131444.jpg/)
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2691/040120131455.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/267/040120131455.jpg/)
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2268/181220121426.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/181220121426.jpg/)
Inyectores bosch a 175bar, comprobados en bomba manual, y dio 190bar? no se porque. Todos iguales.
Bosch injectors to 175bar, hand pump checked in and gave 190bar? do not know why. All Equal.
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9237/040120131448.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/040120131448.jpg/)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9237/040120131448.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/16/040120131448.jpg/)
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2268/181220121426.jpg)[/URL]
Bomba bosch ve 2, motor xud, mod gobernador, embolo 10mm, kit juntas nuevo.
Bosch VE Pump 2 XUD engine, governor mod, 10mm piston, new gaskets kit.
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7400/040120131441.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/040120131441.jpg/)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7619/101220121406.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/101220121406.jpg/)
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9616/040120131439.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/255/040120131439.jpg/)
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/135/040120131438.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/040120131438.jpg/)
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4302/040120131443.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/040120131443.jpg/)
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9139/101220121408.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/254/101220121408.jpg/)
Intento de ajuste sin resolver el problema, e variado todos los tornillos sin cambio a mas de 4000rpm . . .
Try setting the problem unresolved, and changed all screws unchanged over 4000rpm. . .
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4453/040120131458.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/040120131458.jpg/)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8422/040120131460.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/040120131460.jpg/)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8402/040120131459.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/040120131459.jpg/)
Garret t2
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3492/imagen059ry.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/297/imagen059ry.jpg/)
Probado bomba bosch ve 1 y 2, el mismo problema, muy bien de 1000rpm a 3000rpm, mas cae. y a 4000rpm, empieza a fallar motor, golpes en el motor.
E regulado tornillo gasoil maximo, tengo humo, pero no pasa de 4000rpm en 3ª velocidad, tope a 100kmh.
Calado de la bomba, a oido, avanzar hasta sonido tac tac tac, luego un poco atras. Nada.
E variado el avance varias veces, sin mejora . . .
Tested Bosch VE pump 1 and 2, the same problem, very good of 1000rpm to 3000rpm, but falls. 4000rpm and begins to engine failure, the engine strokes.
E regulated maximum screw diesel, I have smoke, but does not exceed 4000rpm in 3rd gear, stop to 100kmh.
Pump timing, by ear, advance to tac tac tac sound, then a little back. Nothing.
E progress repeatedly varied, without improvement. . .
Tambien e probado con inyectores bosch 190bar y lucas de 163bar, sin cambios.
Also e bosch injectors tested and Luke 190bar 163bar, unchanged.
Lo siguiente cambio del filtro del gasoil y examinar si hay obstruccion en los tubos de gasoil . . .
The following diesel filter change and examine any blocking oil tubes. . .
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Well, to start, you're asking Peugeot questions to a Volkswagen forum.
Most of the people here are in the U.S. and Canada, where this car was never sold, no Peugeots here for a long time. But, you might have some luck with the French forums, where there are a lot of members that are familiar with one of these, if you speak French.
VE pumps are not too different though, and my theory is that when you took the pump apart to install the governor mod, you maybe installed the throttle lever arm in a different orientation. Even changing the orientation by 1 tooth (spline) can cause a huge difference in how the engine runs. Also, you maybe went too far when you shimmed it, that is more washers than I have seen anyone use. But that could be different for these engine, I don't know.
EDIT: Also, I'm not familiar with these engines but this car but I would imagine that it uses direct injection. The other pump must also be set up for direct injection, because the fuel pressures used are higher than used with indirect injection.
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El motor es idi, muy muy similar a sus 1.9 td idi, aqui hay muchisimos.
E probado la bomba 1, original, sin tocar, y la 2 con mods, el mismo problema.
El tema de la boma, practicamente lo mismo, para bosch ve psa o W, tambien tengo alguna en casa de un 1.9 td de 80cv de golf mk3. Diferente plato de levas, pocos mas cambios.
Estoy mas acostumbrado a foros en ingles, por eso no e preguntado en el frances, pero lo hare.
Muchas gracias.
The IDI engine is very similar to its 1.9 td idi, here are many.
I tested the pump 1, original, untouched, and 2 with mods, same problem.
The theme of the boma, practically the same, to ve bosch psa or W, also I have some at home of 1.9 80HP td mk3 golf. Different cam plate, a few more changes.
I'm more used to forums in English, and asked why not in French, but I will.
Thank you very much.
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you shimmed the wrong spring in the governor..
your supposed to shim the main spring (big one on the end) not the intermediate spring..
have you verified that you have enough fuel to the pump? if you are starving the pump, it will act just like you describe..
i would check your fuel filter, or just replace it to be safe..
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BTW, this engine is NOTHING like a 1.9 VW diesel, of any type..
this engine is unlike anything anything we have over here in north america..
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Also, you maybe went too far when you shimmed it, that is more washers than I have seen anyone use.
I have shimmed several solid,no ill effects.
you shimmed the wrong spring in the governor..
your supposed to shim the main spring (big one on the end) not the intermediate spring..
He did shim the main spring.. ?
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Also, you maybe went too far when you shimmed it, that is more washers than I have seen anyone use.
I have shimmed several solid,no ill effects.
you shimmed the wrong spring in the governor..
your supposed to shim the main spring (big one on the end) not the intermediate spring..
He did shim the main spring.. ?
MY BAD.. my eyes werent working yet..
yes, he DID shim the correct spring..
and the difference from half shimmed, to fully shimmed, is un-noticable.. you still make the pump capable of floating the camplate..
my first few gov mods were solid. the one im running now, is only partially shimmed..
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MY BAD.. my eyes werent working yet..
Tha's cool, its only what? 10am?! lmao
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MY BAD.. my eyes werent working yet..
Tha's cool, its only what? 10am?! lmao
ive only been awake since 3am.. and i only slept about 2 hours. and im hung over...
that enough excuses for you?
lol...
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Gracias por las respuestas.
Si e calzado el muelle principal. Sera mucho?
Yo ahora sospecho del filtro del gasoil. sera cambiado.
No lo culpaba, porque el motor, con la bomba lucas ba bien.
Pero yo ahora tambien creo que la bosch pasa hambre.
Otra pregunta, e visto que la bosch 2, con mods, hace irregular el motor a 1000rpm, e probado la bomba fuera, y e visto que el inyector 3, inyecta de menos, mal, lo e cambiado, el 3 por el 2, pero el inyector esta bien. Es la linea de la bomba la que esta mal. E desmontado y el embolo esta perfecto. E desmontado las salidas del cabezal, las veo bien. Las e limpiado bien. Me falta motar todo, y volver a comprobar.
Saveis cual es el motivo por lo que una salida del cabezal, dar menos salida de gasoil? Inyectores ok
Thanks for the replies.
If the main spring and footwear. Be much?
I now suspect the oil filter. be changed.
Do not blame him, because the engine with lucas pump ba good.
But I also now think the bosch hungry.
Another question, and seen the bosch 2 with mods, the engine becomes rough at 1000rpm, and tested the pump out, ye seen the injector 3, injected less, evil, and changed, 3 for 2, but the injector is good. Is the line of the pump which is wrong. E disassembled and the plunger is perfect. I disassembled the outputs of the head, the look good. The e cleaned. Motar I lack everything, and recheck.
Saveis which is why so a header outlet, give less oil output? ok injectors
ROR 2.0, need to sleep more, that you walk after confused and mess up lol
I have now an 8 days and also sleep very little ;)
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Good, I reassembled the large bosch mods.
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7158/090120131466.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/090120131466.jpg/)
I think i have found the problem. But still not able to get the car and to try, without battery. . .
I think the problem of the lack of fuel, due to low pressure in the pump.
Screw out of fuel, was wearing one of lucas, backstop, but large exit hole. The Bosch is a filter and a much smaller output, I think that the pump does take pressure? right?
Photos,
left bosch
lucas right or otherwise. . .
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4753/090120131464.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/090120131464.jpg/)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8891/090120131463.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/090120131463.jpg/)
What do you think, is this the culprit of my pump failure?
That hole is the internal pressure created by the pump?
Because the fuel inlet is a self-regulating screw no pressure?
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the problem is your primer bulb.. its on the FEED line..
should be on the return line.. when the engine is at anything more than an idle, i guarantee that the vacuum in the fuel line is collapsing your primer bulb.
temporarily take the bulb out, and run the car.. the primer bulb should be fitted to the RETURN line..
i would just about guarantee that is your problem.. my grandpa had a primer in the same spot, caused him MASSIVE HEADACHES until i switched it to the return line, rather than the feed line..
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You can`t change OUT bolts beetwen Bosch and Lucas.
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Solved, were the fault of the screws on the photo, the lucas has large hole, and I picked up enough pressure pump.
Now stretch much, earlier in 5200 to 3rd gear 125kmh, 140kmh now and done. . . I have to be careful not to spend my lap. . .
The other problem, as a 3 pistons at 1000rpm, output fault injection, and had to change the four outputs of the hydraulic head by others, now the engine turns round.
Now I have plenty of fuel available, but a very small turbo, when you have time and money I'll spend the garret t2 a gt1756 or gt20xx or similar, and so have fresh air!
They say that the ideal is a gt18xx, because it keeps good bass and good pressure.
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Solved, were the fault of the screws on the photo, the lucas has large hole, and I picked up enough pressure pump.
Now stretch much, earlier in 5200 to 3rd gear 125kmh, 140kmh now and done. . . I have to be careful not to spend my lap. . .
The other problem, as a 3 pistons at 1000rpm, output fault injection, and had to change the four outputs of the hydraulic head by others, now the engine turns round.
Now I have plenty of fuel available, but a very small turbo, when you have time and money I'll spend the garret t2 a gt1756 or gt20xx or similar, and so have fresh air!
They say that the ideal is a gt18xx, because it keeps good bass and good pressure.
im running a GT2056V on my 1.6D, it loves it..
i would think a GT17, or GT18 would both be too small..
i would almost consider going to a GT2256 or GT2260 on an engine that size..
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I do not know, I have no fear that has low car is my daily, and I do not have to reach 2500rpm to have all the power.
Not a idi, a boy from a 2.0TDI 140cv remap to 180hp, with a gt17xx, said he was told that in your engine, a gt20xx, would not have full momentum until beyond 2400 - 2800rpm, best one gt18xx full boost 1800rpm and 200hp good to keep the wanted, without losing low.
if not with a mechanical pump idi and fewer low impulse problems, I would have to 1500 - 1900rpm + - 1bar. Can it be? or am very optimistic?
IDI is also a not ready for strong torque at low rpm, not as aguantasn before turning the cranks. If I change to a turbo gtxxxx, exchange a 2.0HDI rods, which are more resistant t compatible.
What pressure is your gt2056v to 2000rpm?
And 4000rpm? or maximum safe
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I do not know, I have no fear that has low car is my daily, and I do not have to reach 2500rpm to have all the power.
Not a idi, a boy from a 2.0TDI 140cv remap to 180hp, with a gt17xx, said he was told that in your engine, a gt20xx, would not have full momentum until beyond 2400 - 2800rpm, best one gt18xx full boost 1800rpm and 200hp good to keep the wanted, without losing low.
if not with a mechanical pump idi and fewer low impulse problems, I would have to 1500 - 1900rpm + - 1bar. Can it be? or am very optimistic?
IDI is also a not ready for strong torque at low rpm, not as aguantasn before turning the cranks. If I change to a turbo gtxxxx, exchange a 2.0HDI rods, which are more resistant t compatible.
What pressure is your gt2056v to 2000rpm?
And 4000rpm? or maximum safe
VNT turbos can spool very early.. thats the beauty of variable nozzle turbos..
mine makes full boost alot sooner than 2400rpm, and thats on a 1.6..
on a 2.0, it will spool even better, and quicker..
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ok, I will try to find a better one or gt22xx gt20xx.
What pressure are you running, use paddle control mechanic?
I'm building in arduino mediande electronic control, I have it half done, I only need the pressure sensor 3 or 4bar
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ok, I will try to find a better one or gt22xx gt20xx.
What pressure are you running, use paddle control mechanic?
I'm building in arduino mediande electronic control, I have it half done, I only need the pressure sensor 3 or 4bar
paddle control mechanic?
if you are asking about how i control my vanes, then im using a wastegate actuator..
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have no mechanical control rods and a lung?
Just a lung works by pressure?
A photo?