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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: jaed_43725 on December 27, 2012, 06:17:13 pm
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1. How do I get rid of the safety mechanism for charging where the engine has to go to 2K rpm before it will start to charge?
2. What options for a manual tranny are there out there? Can a TDI engine work easy enough? Are there gears available, especially 5th. I am not a fan of how close the gears are, it is very annoying. Thank you.
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1) It's probably bad connections. Do a voltage drop test on the system to pinpoint the problem.
2) Any 020 will install with relative ease. www.scirocco.org/gears will help you decide what code you want. Pay attention to axle size (90mm vs 100mm) and also splines on the input shaft. If it's different you'll have to change clutches and possible the PP/flywheel.
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1. I don't think this is a safety mechanism, just the way these Bosch alternators work. It's less obvious on a gas engine because they tend to have a post start-up surge. I've noticed the issue on other cars with the same alternator design which includes many European cars. A poor connection from the alternator to battery seems to make the problem worse though, specifically if it alternator is not well grounded, consider running heavy gage wire to the alternator case, from the battery negative. Make sure the alternator connection to the battery positive side is good and make sure the exciter wire (usually a small blue wire connected to the alternator) which comes through your dash is getting power. It should have 12 volts DC when the key is on, engine off and no volts with the key off.
2. The 020 series of transmissions was used for many years and they're pretty much interchangeable with most differences being minor things that can be sorted out. They came with many different ratios and if you have a gas transmission connected to a diesel engine it will seem like the gears are too close, especially the lower gears.
This page has all sorts of information: http://www.brokevw.com/ (http://www.brokevw.com/)
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Its not bad connections. Its even in the usual manual you have to rev to 2K before it starts to charge. I wish to eliminate that.
I wont gain much moving to a .71 5th as I already have .75. I was hoping someone knew how to swap in a TDI tranny or of aftermarket gears to help me out.
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I've had a few not charge till reved, and new or newer brushes has always fixed it.
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You likely have a 3.94 final. If you swap in a tranny with a 3.67 you'll have wider gears.
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You likely have a 3.94 final. If you swap in a tranny with a 3.67 you'll have wider gears.
^^ THIS ^^
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Its not bad connections. Its even in the usual manual you have to rev to 2K before it starts to charge. I wish to eliminate that.
I wont gain much moving to a .71 5th as I already have .75. I was hoping someone knew how to swap in a TDI tranny or of aftermarket gears to help me out.
to put a tdi tranny into an mk2 td you'll need new pp fw gearbox shifter box with cables pedal cluster master cylinder and bracket that attaches to the brake booster and a few other bits and bobs and a tiny bit of modification to the firewall i have all that stuff minus the gearbox, pp and fw. let me know if your interested in it.
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Its not bad connections. Its even in the usual manual you have to rev to 2K before it starts to charge. I wish to eliminate that.
I wont gain much moving to a .71 5th as I already have .75. I was hoping someone knew how to swap in a TDI tranny or of aftermarket gears to help me out.
to put a tdi tranny into an mk2 td you'll need new pp fw gearbox shifter box with cables pedal cluster master cylinder and bracket that attaches to the brake booster and a few other bits and bobs and a tiny bit of modification to the firewall i have all that stuff minus the gearbox, pp and fw. let me know if your interested in it.
O2A swap in a mk2 is not easy..
i NEED an 02A trans in my car tho.
unless you are WAY modified, and over the stock power levels by like 2x, then you are fine with the 020 w/ 3.67 & .75
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I will have to check into the 3.67 ratio tranny thing. I am not a fan of the 5th gear though in any of those. I would like something like .67. Still if anyone knows about after market gears let me know.
I guess I will opt out of the TDI tranny then. To much work with not enough pay off. When mine finally goes I will get me a 3.67 tranny.
Also I believe my alternator is new. But I will get it checked out and see if something can be done. Thanks.
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Do some quick math. A 3.67 with a .71 5th is taller than a 3.94 with a .67. I wouldn't want anything that tall because of the jump from 4th to 5th, making for a lot of downshifting and sluggish highway driving.
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I have the late FF and the fifth is like an overdrive, it's a big jump between fourth and fifth, I wish they were tighter.
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Just wondering why you care that it doesn't charge until you blip the pedal?
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3.67 with a. 71 fifth is great for these engines. A taller. 94 fourth from your ags into an acn or asf with. 71 swapped in is even better on paper at least. The acn is a very common if not most common gearbox of the 020 series.
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AUG trannyis what you want. came off of certain aaz powered cars
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AUG trannyis what you want. came off of certain aaz powered cars
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
ACN is the 'prefered' box for something you can buy without messing with it for a TD. I think it should bolt into mk1 and mk2. If you have mk1 then FF or FN are the ones to go for.
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Have a 3:67 ASF with .75 removed and .71 installed.
Still rev'd to high for my AAZ.
Added 155x15 tires and now my 55mph rpm is 2450.
Overall drop of 600 rpm over the FF.
Don't have to downshift due to power loss.
Caddy will pull cruise control at any speed in 5th above 35 without drooping on grades.
Driveability and smoothness improvement very noticable.
Wayne
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I have a 3.94 / .71 7A trans on my AAZ, it is not by any means to high of RPM. It also runs a 175-70-13 tire.
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I have a 4-speed GP trans in my '81, I know a lot of people hate 4 speeds but I don't mind it, I don't expect my NA to be a sports car :D if you are into wide-ratios this is it. 3.89 final and 0.71 4th, gives me about 3000 rpm at 75 MPH with 155/80/13 donuts. I'd like try a 5 speed in my car just to see how much better it is though.
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I have the later FF in my Rabbit with a 1.6TD and find it plenty tall. With stock tires it will go over 40 in second gear... 3,000 rpms @ 75 MPH. Sounds good to me...
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I have the later FF in my Rabbit with a 1.6TD and find it plenty tall. With stock tires it will go over 40 in second gear... 3,000 rpms @ 75 MPH. Sounds good to me...
Do you find the gap between fourth and fifth to be excessively large? I run 185/60r14.
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It is not that large in the FF, I drove one of those trannies on a 1.6 NA and it did alright.
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Added 155x15 tires and now my 55mph rpm is 2450.
What is the profile on these? 40? That is the only way I get close to the RPM stated here.
What vehicle ever got the 4.25 final ratio trans code AVX? Seems like you could pull a nicely loaded trailer with that dude in there.
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Your tire should be 155-?-15, you need that middle number to determine the diameter (height) of the tire.
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AVX was an ecodiesel only trans wasn't it?
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What vehicle ever got the 4.25 final ratio trans code AVX? Seems like you could pull a nicely loaded trailer with that dude in there.
Jetta ECO.
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Seems like it would be good for in-town stop and go (lower gearing, less power to get going), but too high rpm for the highway
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Only 3-400 rpm higher than a 3.67 FD with the same .75 5th gear.
It doesn't really make a huge difference.
This same trans on a 2.0L 16v.. OMFG. 4th gear would be balls to the walls.
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I have the later FF in my Rabbit with a 1.6TD and find it plenty tall. With stock tires it will go over 40 in second gear... 3,000 rpms @ 75 MPH. Sounds good to me...
Do you find the gap between fourth and fifth to be excessively large? I run 185/60r14.
I have no complaints.
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AUG trannyis what you want. came off of certain aaz powered cars
Never in Canada. AUG was a MK2 tranny.
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Wow lol... Aug is a short ratio mk2 gas tranny. I sold one the day i wrote that. I meant to say CHD!!
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Do some quick math. A 3.67 with a .71 5th is taller than a 3.94 with a .67. I wouldn't want anything that tall because of the jump from 4th to 5th, making for a lot of downshifting and sluggish highway driving.
not true... i run an ACN trans (3.67 & .75) in my car, and i LOVE it..
they came stock behind low power gas engines, and did fine with those as well.
the jump from 4th to 5th is not as big as you would think either..
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I think he meant a jump from the 1.13 4th to a .71 5th.. but the .75 5th isn't too bad.
The low powered gas engines were still the same if not more torque than the 1.6TD.
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I think he meant a jump from the 1.13 4th to a .71 5th.. but the .75 5th isn't too bad.
The low powered gas engines were still the same if not more torque than the 1.6TD.
nah, the TD had more grunt, for sure..
and 4th gear is 1:1 in the ACN trannies.
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1.6 MF TD;
51 kilowatts (69 PS; 68 bhp) @ 4,500 rpm; 133 newton metres (98 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm -- MF
Even the lowest powered 1.8 single point injected engines had more torque ;) Same RPM too, it would feel like the same motor.
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 5,000 rpm; 140 newton metres (103 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm — AAM, ANN, DD
The 020's are too short and close for any diesel over 130ft.lbs of torque. I mean unless you are a gas engine and can rev out to 7500. With a high torque diesel you blow through all gears like nothing, and run outta steam fast.
I can shoot from ~1500 (60km/h) in 5th to ~3500 (120km/h) in 5th in the blink of an eye with my ACN.
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1.6 MF TD;
51 kilowatts (69 PS; 68 bhp) @ 4,500 rpm; 133 newton metres (98 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm -- MF
Even the lowest powered 1.8 single point injected engines had more torque ;) Same RPM too, it would feel like the same motor.
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 5,000 rpm; 140 newton metres (103 lbf·ft) @ 2,500 rpm — AAM, ANN, DD
The 020's are too short and close for any diesel over 130ft.lbs of torque. I mean unless you are a gas engine and can rev out to 7500. With a high torque diesel you blow through all gears like nothing, and run outta steam fast.
I can shoot from ~1500 (60km/h) in 5th to ~3500 (120km/h) in 5th in the blink of an eye with my ACN.
the GX engine, the one that came in front of the ACN trans, was 85hp, and 92 ft lbs torque, but at 3000 revs..
the TD engine has 68hp, and 98 ft lbs @ 2500 revs
i really disagree with your statement about the 020 trannies, even cars over 130ft lbs can still use an 020 just fine..
not everyone shifts @ 800 RPMs like you do Jer..
i love the way my diesel drives with the ACN trans in it.. ive got 6000 revs to play with tho :P
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not everyone shifts @ 800 RPMs like you do Jer..
LOOOOOOOOOL. If I get on any power at all, I fry my right tire off.
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not everyone shifts @ 800 RPMs like you do Jer..
LOOOOOOOOOL. If I get on any power at all, I fry my right tire off.
right off the wheel...
im REALLY CONSIDERING swapping back to a smaller turbo..
maybe even back to a *GASP* conventional turbo..
i really miss the way my car drove with the tiny little VNT15..
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Small turbo for the win. We drive Diesels, more than 3500 is useless! LMAO
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8V Have you add a Peliquin kit yet? Might allow you to zoom all the way up to 1250 RPMs before shifting. I know will wonders never cease?
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Small turbo for the win. We drive Diesels, more than 3500 is useless! LMAO
i dont ever rev it over 3500 unless im merging onto the freeway, or i wanna pass someone..
then ill take it clear til the rollers start skipping..
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Added 155x15 tires and now my 55mph rpm is 2450.
What is the profile on these? 40? That is the only way I get close to the RPM stated here.
155's are profile of 80%, (take a tape measure)
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Added 155x15 tires and now my 55mph rpm is 2450.
What is the profile on these? 40? That is the only way I get close to the RPM stated here.
155's are profile of 80%, (take a tape measure)
even on a 15" wheel?
never heard of a 155/40/15
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No...
The size sytem is: (width in mm)/(aspect ratio in %)/(rim diameter)
155 indicates the width in mm for any tire. You can't know the hight (aspect ratio, the number we are looking for) if you only have the width and the rim size. A 155/60/15 is the same width as a 155/80/15, but the 80 is taller than the 60
There should be a middle number.
If I was guessing though, I'd say you have a 155/60/15, which is a common size, which is 22.3" tall.
155/80/13 is the stock size that came on the rabbit, and what I'm running. They are getting hard to find.
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155's are profile of 80%, (take a tape measure)
even on a 15" wheel?
never heard of a 155/40/15
isnt that nice of you
math shouldnt lie, in fact a 155/40/15 would seem to be the same total measurement as a 155/80/13, may be so. you can see if profile is an 80 though. a 40 will be distinctly shorter.
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That doesn't make any sense and I didn't say anything close to that. That last part of what you said is just what I said. The middle number is a percent of the width which determines the height, but it doesn't actually tell us the height of the tire.
Yes the rim size does affect the height of the tire, but not the width of the tread. A 155/80/13 would be just as wide as a 155/80/15, but obviously the second one would be taller because the rim is bigger.
Check if the sizes compare for yourself: http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Again, if you only know the width of the tire, and the rim size, you can't determine the diameter of the tire without knowing what the aspect ratio is.
From UNECE: "Tyre size designation
－Section width、Aspect ratio、（Const. code）、Nominal rim dia."
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2007/wp29grrf/TYREgtr-02-08e.pdf
The 2nd paragraph in this article explains it all, again: http://www.gglotus.org/ggtech/tire-DOTnotes/tirerat.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire_code
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srry 4 the misunderstanding, wasnt posted toward you, hopefully that will clear up that
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155's are profile of 80%, (take a tape measure)
even on a 15" wheel?
never heard of a 155/40/15
isnt that nice of you
math shouldnt lie, in fact a 155/40/15 would seem to be the same total measurement as a 155/80/13, may be so. you can see if profile is an 80 though. a 40 will be distinctly shorter.
Please use a better description. This hurts trying to read it. I cannot tell what you are saying and if you were taking another shot or not after I told you not to. Please re read it and make it start making sense.
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I used the Miata calculator to try and get to the RPM's noted in the post that I was replying to. That is how I came up with the 155/40/15 numbers. But like I said I wasn't sure that was the correct size in the first place. I was trying to figure it out with the wheel calculator as one method.
As for 40 profile tires in a 15 inch wheel? I think they are out there. For sure the 16's. But who runs these things. Or maybe the better question is where? Show cars on dollies and trailers that never touch the real streets I have to dodge potholes on daily? The road maintenance in some towns is so poor these days I shake in the Rabbit with either my 155/80/13's or the 165/70/14's on.
And we still don't know the middle profile number yet do we?
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Well I googled 155/40/15 and it doesn't appear that anyone makes them, I think those are too narrow. Now they probably make them that low-profile in wider 15" tires.
I worked at a tire shop for 2 years (best-one tire) and saw lots of low-profile tires mostly 16's and bigger, but never anything like 155/40/15's.
Anyways if we could get the guy to take a look at his sidewall then we would know.
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A long time ago it was common for metric tires not to list the aspect ratio on the tire, such as : 155R15, 155R13, &c. As far as I can tell, they were/are an 80 series tire, just were not marked (I have some in 155R12, very old, on a '77 Honda Civic).
If you would like to by some _new_ 155R15 tires, Coker Tire Company in Texas, USA has them for sale...
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155's are profile of 80%, (take a tape measure)
even on a 15" wheel?
never heard of a 155/40/15
isnt that nice of you
math shouldnt lie, in fact a 155/40/15 would seem to be the same total measurement as a 155/80/13, may be so. you can see if profile is an 80 though. a 40 will be distinctly shorter.
Please use a better description. This hurts trying to read it. I cannot tell what you are saying and if you were taking another shot or not after I told you not to. Please re read it and make it start making sense.
yea, that was another shot, no question..
he would never say that i was being nice, and mean it..
they DO NOT make 155/40/15 tires..
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I have to sit here laughing as the 144/40/15 is totally fictional. It was the only way I could get to the OP RPMs given the limitedinformation at the time. My question later was do they even make them? Apparently not, I even went looking. So give it up. the guy probably just didn't read the 13 correctly and called it a 15. Or like it may be that the tires are really old and he is driving on dangerous rubber. Perhaps that is why we are not hearing from him as to the magic middle number.
ROFL
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I will look into the ACN trans, and the 3.67. Might be able to get a free 3.67 swap, as I am sure some gas guy would love my trans.
Also I want my alternator to start charging right off the bat because I hate having to wait 30 seconds for the oil to circulate and then blip the throttle to 2K. I would prefer charge at idle so when I turn on my HID's and such I am not draining the battery like crazy.
So if someone can help me with that, that would be awesome.
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You might put a smaller pulley on the alt.
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Jaed, I have an amp gauge on my 81 and I have that sissy alternator that cranks out 55 amps it think. When I hit the glow plugs and start it up my gauge pops up to 30 amps charging when the light goes off. I don't wait 30 seconds either as giving the engine a bit of throttle to start seems to get it going better in the first place. I also have an oil gauge off the top of the head and I can watch it climb all the while the engine warms up as I sit there for like you say. 30 seconds.
If I pull the lights on at idle the amp gauge jumps a bit to say 45 but comes back to near zero after say a minute. A well charged battery will allow that. A battery that is going out or charges some and goes dead quick will always seem to pull on the alternator.
So i wouldn't worry about the charge at idle if your battery is good and I wouldn't hesitate to give a bit of fuel at start up to make the alternator turn on ASAP. Not from what I see going on with my monitoring equipment. And if you have ever been inside the engine after it has set a while there is still oil all over the place in there. The crank lobes meet the shims and there is generally oil waiting there before the pump starts delivery. If you are worried about dry metal parts I would look into some Lucas oil treatment. That seems to let it hang better than oil alone.
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Yes, the oil clings to everything.. So unless it has sat 3 years there is not really any harm in giving it a blip immediately. Some diesels (big 8 wheel John Deer tractors) start and immediately rev to full throttle for a second to prime everything good and ready. There is no harm revving up the engine for a quick second.
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OK. So my alternator is dead. I am putting a new one on and hopefully all the issues I had with it not charging until 2K will go away. If not I will ask a vehicle electric pro to check it out.
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My alt is fine and the batt light doesn't go off till I blip it to around 2k. In fact it's a GM alt.
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OK. So my alternator is dead. I am putting a new one on and hopefully all the issues I had with it not charging until 2K will go away. If not I will ask a vehicle electric pro to check it out.
having to blip the throttle on a VW to get it charging is perfectly normal..
if you dont want to blip the throttle every time, then swap your charging system from a V-belt alternator to a 90a or 120a serpentine alternator, and appropriate brackets and pulleys to make it work..
my 86 GTI is the only VW i own that does not take the initial blip of throttle to excite the alt, but thats because it has a 120a TDI alt, and serpentine belt drive setup..
some take less throttle to get the alt working, but ALL v-belt alternators take a throttle blip.. its a way of life, much like death and paying taxes..
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Good to know that its not unusual. But I wonder if there is a way to fix it even with using the v-belts.
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I've known guys to convert to the one wire GM alternator that is widely available in any amperage one could want, it wasn't hard.
Personally I've had excellent service out of non-***ty-rebuilt Bosch pieces, the bearings last through several sets of brushes, might put a
voltage regulator in once over the life of the rotating assembly, and you can still buy bearings for them if you look around.
I've never run anything beyond a regular radio with a small amp and H4 headlights with fogs, and the stock 55amp or whatever it is
with a correctly sized stock battery has been fine in Oklahoma to North Carolina climates. The blip is normal. I even like it, because
right after the glow plugs cycle there is a large drain from the alternator (don't underestimate how much of a drain it can be) on the motor
and it'll lower the idle RPM even further, which is unpleasant on a very cold diesel.
A serpentine conversion would be nice, I've seen it done on an ABA, but not a diesel. I assume the AAZ had that setup somewhere but I've
never seen it in any detail, the V belt setup is kinda meh on the old motors, but it works if you keep good belts on it and watch the tension.
Much like the input shaft bushing on the injection pump, you can and will wear out water pumps and alternators if you over-tighten the V belts.
Not to mention wear the belts out in no time. There used to be tension gauges for V belts back when they were more common, and smart manufacturers
ran more than one V belt at a time (see borrowed Volvo 240 image below), the power steering is a single and MIA, but note the double alternator belts.
They last for ages.
(http://www.brickboard.com/GALLERY/images/122-B21/volvo/5208.jpg)
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Good to know that its not unusual. But I wonder if there is a way to fix it even with using the v-belts.
its the alternator its self..
you HAVE TO change to a different alternator to make it excite instantly..
ive never found a way to make stock 65a, or 90a alternators charge instantly, they always take a throttle blip, some just take less than others..
the only way i know of, to get insta-charge, is to swap to a mk3 alternator, and serpentine drive setup..
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Good to know that its not unusual. But I wonder if there is a way to fix it even with using the v-belts.
its the alternator its self..
you HAVE TO change to a different alternator to make it excite instantly..
ive never found a way to make stock 65a, or 90a alternators charge instantly, they always take a throttle blip, some just take less than others..
the only way i know of, to get insta-charge, is to swap to a mk3 alternator, and serpentine drive setup..
No sir, I have a AHU in my 84 with its original charging system (120A serp alt) and it too requires a blip over 1200..
Big cables for power and ground to battery from the alt.
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Good to know that its not unusual. But I wonder if there is a way to fix it even with using the v-belts.
its the alternator its self..
you HAVE TO change to a different alternator to make it excite instantly..
ive never found a way to make stock 65a, or 90a alternators charge instantly, they always take a throttle blip, some just take less than others..
the only way i know of, to get insta-charge, is to swap to a mk3 alternator, and serpentine drive setup..
No sir, I have a AHU in my 84 with its original charging system (120A serp alt) and it too requires a blip over 1200..
Big cables for power and ground to battery from the alt.
my 120 charges from 400rpm on up..
never have to blip my throttle...
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I never had to blip the throttle with my 90amp serpentine alternator
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I never had to blip the throttle with my 90amp serpentine alternator
Are the pulleys on your serpentine setup the same diameter as the V belt setup? The serpentine setup may be spinning faster due to different pulley diameter and slips less than a V belt setup, which may explain why you do not have to blip the throttle.
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The serp alt pullies are much smaller meaning they should be spinning faster at idle, which would attribute to it not needing the blip..
Yet mine does, on a stock AHU serp setup.
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The serp alt pullies are much smaller meaning they should be spinning faster at idle, which would attribute to it not needing the blip..
Yet mine does, on a stock AHU serp setup.
what i noticed, is that the harmonic balancer is larger than the stock crank pulley, and the alt pulley is smaller than the OEM unit..
so, yes, it is spinning the alt faster at idle..
weird that i dont have to blip to excite..
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One way to eliminate the need to blip is to send switched 12v to the D+ terminal. That will defeat the LED indicator on the dash, but if you have a voltmeter, that ain't so bad.
OTOH, as some have noted, the extra load when the engine is just getting warmed up (and maybe running rough) might be better delayed until the engine warms a bit and smooths out.
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might be better delayed until the engine warms a bit and smooths out.
Works well for my 1.6 TD and M-TDI ;)