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General Information => Upgrades (non engine related ) => Topic started by: burn_your_money on December 26, 2012, 07:39:58 pm
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So I pulled the Jetta into the shop to do an oil change. I always run synthetic in the winter but this year I was a little slow getting around to it and starting was already starting to get difficult. I'm trying out a new oil this time Gulf Formula G.
(http://www.oilsandstuff.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product-main/formula-g-5w-40-1l.jpg)
While the cold dino oil was draining I figured I should take some pictures of the door seal upgrade I did a while ago. I bought this stuff
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_P1150520.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/?action=view¤t=P1150520.jpg)
I don't know if you can see it in the picture but I paid a whole $0.99 for it (well, $1.12 after tax)
And I stuck it on my door jambs like so
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts018-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts018-2.jpg)
Initially I put it all the way around the door but then I couldn't close the door. After some trial and error I realized that I only needed it in the far upper corners.
Zero wind noise. It's like driving a new car... almost. Well worth the $1.12 as appose to a few hundred for new seals.
The oil still hadn't finished draining so I figured I'd try and fix up the stock v-belt setup. I've never liked how little contact the waterpump pulley gets and I always have spare timing belt tensioners kicking around so I figured I'd do a little basic math. 1+1=
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts015-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts015-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts017-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts017-2.jpg)
I don't know if this is normal for MK1 alternators but I doubt it
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts016-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts016-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts020-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts020-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts019-2.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts019-2.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/th_parts021-1.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/parts021-1.jpg)
So far I have a grand total of 1 km on this setup and it's working flawlessly :D
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Nicely done. Got a possible upgrade there. Cost to do this? Old tensioner = 0.00 Weld work = 5.00 and stock about the same?
I don't like how the belt flaps around either and now I know how to fix it all better. Thanks.
DAS
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i like it , have been thinking about a better wrap for that pully now i dont have to think as hard. and get to use those pullies.
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The 2 tubes are the spacers for power steering on mk2s. I drilled the one out so I could tap it for M10x1.5. I don't think this will help with flapping since the belt length between the alt and crank didn't change at all.
I'll keep an updade going on the life of the belt.
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Great idea! I remember that fanbelt flop in the 1.6's. Any thought on the extra load that might be on the waterpump bearing?
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Well I've got a 1000km trip planned for the weekend. I normally don't carry tools in the car but I think I will this time.
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Is there a way to bring a tensioner in from the top where all the flap is normally going on? Some how come off the engine block or waterpump bolt?
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I'm not sure. It wouldn't solve the contact area problem on the waterpump pulley though. Although I guess you could install 2 tensioners...
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i fuggin dig it. I used a timing tensioner on my ac setup and its great.
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I like the budget seals idea, you're still using the stock seals right?
They're extortionate over here too
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Yes, still using stock seals. The foam just makes up for the door seals compressing/shrinking over the years. I really wish I could open my rear door, but since the accident it hasn't been able to open so it's still noisy.
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Yes, still using stock seals. The foam just makes up for the door seals compressing/shrinking over the years. I really wish I could open my rear door, but since the accident it hasn't been able to open so it's still noisy.
duct tape... 8)
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duct tape... 8)
That might be taking it too far. I have thought about siliconing it shut since it would be less obvious but I think it's too far up the ghetto scale for me.
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The 2 tubes are the spacers for power steering on mk2s. I drilled the one out so I could tap it for M10x1.5. I don't think this will help with flapping since the belt length between the alt and crank didn't change at all.
I'll keep an updade going on the life of the belt.
there is PLENTY of purchase on the water pump pulley.. its not like the water pump draws much power anyways..
what you did is nice, but i think i would have put it on the other side of the belt, to keep it from jumping around..
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Yes, still using stock seals. The foam just makes up for the door seals compressing/shrinking over the years. I really wish I could open my rear door, but since the accident it hasn't been able to open so it's still noisy.
duct tape... 8)
My thoughts exactly X 20
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I once had a saturn I side swiped a guard rail in it was held together with good ole 100 mph tape. Id still have it had I not blown the headgasket being stupid and 17
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Hi Tyler,
That foam tape is really useful IN the doors too. Years ago I posted about the wind noise in the driver's door due to the seals getting aged. What I did was pull the door cards; wound up the glass, grease pencilled where it contacted the bottom of the OEM seal, and put a strip of foam across the glass on the outside of the glass so it snuggles up against the seal keeping out the wind...and water.
Cheers,
Andy
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Good tip Andy, I think I understand what you are suggesting. This pretty much solved my wind noise issue but if I find more I'll give that a whirl.
So 1000+ kms later, everything is working perfectly. I drove 500kms straight all at highway speeds so if anything was going to fail, I would have expected it to be on a trip like that.
I forgot about another mod I did while I was doing the oil change. I've read a lot about the front motor mount needing to be shimmed to reduce engine vibes. I took mine off and was able to move it 1/4 to 1/2 an inch towards the engine before it contacted the mount. I didn't have long enough bolts or a thick enough chunk of steel to make a plate out of so what I did was used some 3/16 rubber from the bladder of a water pressure tank (used with wells) and put that between the mount and the body. Wow what a difference. I can actually leave it in gear, stopped and the dash doesn't even shake! (remember it's an auto). I highly recommend using rubber instead of steel, although I didn't test with steel so I can't say 100%.
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so what I did was used some 3/16 rubber from the bladder of a water pressure tank (used with wells) and put that between the mount and the body. Wow what a difference.
What a great mod! Sticky That! I have this dense 1/4 thick rubber mat that goes on metal steps or under wooden floors (my application) and I am going out to work on the car now. Just happen to have a piece about 6 by 6 that will go there nicely. Why didn't VW think of double insulating the engine mount from the body? To much play?
Thanks for the New Years tip. DAS
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Let me know if it works on your car and if it does I'll make a sticky about it.
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I can tell you this. Before I loosened the front engine mount and slid my 1/4 rubber mat between the frame and the rubber thing on the engine part I had a very annoying shake of the steering wheel and dash buzz. Not to be confused with buzzes of other sorts from the night before.
I tightened down the two bolts and crawled up and out from under it and dusted myself off. Can't dirty the GTI seats with oil and dirt now. I fired up the car and with it not quite catching on all four I could tell that the vibrations were nearly gone. Once a bit of heat cycled around the engine, about a minute, all was well. NO MOAR Shakes. So this definitely makes a difference. So I would say throw it in the things to do box for all those seeking that final smoothie after realigning the engine and trans for the 1000th time and still not getting the result you want. Try some layers or a layer of rubber mat or even an old mouse pad. Just enough to remove that metal to metal conduction from the engine.
It worked for me, I think it will work for us all.
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I will be trying this in the up coming weeks as well Ty-Guy. Let you know how it goes :)
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I'm not sure. It wouldn't solve the contact area problem on the waterpump pulley though. Although I guess you could install 2 tensioners...
Did you have overheating issues with the original belt routing?
As far as using rubber floor mats I'd think an old car or truck tire would have better rubber.
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Did you have overheating issues with the original belt routing?
No, no issues. My thoughts were to increase the water pump pulley to belt efficiency, thus increasing the flow of coolant, thus reducing hot spots and hopefully head warpage and cracks between the valves. I know there is no way of knowing if it will make a difference or not but for the cost of some welding wire I figured it would be fun to do.
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I think you may have doubled your belt to pulley contact on the WP but I am not so sure the efficiency is all that much better. One rotation is one rotation. It isn't like we are grinding anything in the pump, it is just pushing water around right?
I thought you just were going for a better and easier way to adjust the belt tension. Which would solve any skipping type problem you might have had. Do you have a glazed belt that likes to slip on you? Sand paper and belt dressing, may save you there.
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I like to run my belts loose since it seems to keep them alive a lot longer. This setup allows me to do that. Plus, this belt would have been stretched out of adjustment if I hadn't added this piece so it saved me a few coins.
If we assume that the stock setup never slips on the WP pulley then this setup is "useless". I think that it does slip, possibly only 1 or 2% in the rain so the improvements if any are minimal and I would not recommend going out of your way to do this. However if you like to tinker...
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also, you are NOT supposed to add tension on the back (face with writing) of the belt..
so, if the belt fails in short order, thats why..
maybe belts have gotten better in the last few years..
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I have seen belt tensioners on tractors and lawnmowers that apply tension on the back of the belt, doesn't mean it's right I guess.
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I have seen belt tensioners on tractors and lawnmowers that apply tension on the back of the belt, doesn't mean it's right I guess.
different kind of belt.
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B_Y_M Tinker? Why in the world would you own a VW that is 30 years old if you didn't have this as part of you blood? My wife has another name for it. OCD Obsession Compulsive Disorder. And I guess that fits as well. Guys gotta have a vice.
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B_Y_M Tinker?
True, very true. Although there was a time when I absolutely hated doing anything but drive my car. I didn't even want to change the oil (for obvious reasons).
I did notice that the back of the belt is starting to glaze a bit. I'm not too surprised. I had thought that I read that belts weren't suppose to be bent backwards. We'll see how long it lasts. The belt is technically finished anyways.
I also noticed that my diff has a lot of play in it. Turns out that clicking noise isn't a CV :( Hopefully it hangs in there
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Can you not then just find the right size belt from some other belt drive application?
I have seen pretty much every trans I have had my hands on has wobbly cups on the trans.. I often wonder how they don't leak! LOL.
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Mine have just a little play in them too, no leaks or noise though. I wondered if that was common at all...
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I have seen belt tensioners on tractors and lawnmowers that apply tension on the back of the belt, doesn't mean it's right I guess.
different kind of belt.
yep. aka industrial belts, lawn mower belts etc which are designed to drive higher loads, and are toothless (unlike automotive belts).
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I have 4 manual trannys sitting on the floor and 3 of them have very tight diffs, the 4th has a lot of slop. The one on my mom's car is coming close to 1/4" up and down movement and something is clicking when I turn both right or left after the car has been driven for a long time and warmed up.
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Excellent tips tyler! I'm now determined to seal out that terrible wind noise. I like the reuse of the old tensioner too. As someone pointed out, it definitely speeds up the tensioning process and certainly gives you extra purchase on the wp pulley. I always find I have to get an extra person to hold something when I tigthen my belt. Seems like I need three arms :-\
But I have to agree with you. The slack that is allowed between these belts really has to allow some slippage to occur. I've been paranoid about that actually since I first got the car. . .
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my automatic also had loose cups, i put new axles on it cause i thought thats what the noise was. never leaked or had problems tho.
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Shot these under the car earlier today. One of the pad on the floor in the shop, the other in hand to see thickness. Very dense ground up rubber that is reconstructed into a roll about 3 ft wide and 50 feet long. Two more of install, very boring and not much to see. 1/4 inch of rubber squeezed between the mount and the frame. Excite me!
Either I magically hit the right combination of places to put my engine in its mounts or this final isolater is the ticket. I don't even get the rear view mirror shakes anymore.
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20130112-00102.jpg)
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20130112-00101.jpg)
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20130112-00098.jpg)
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20130112-00096.jpg)
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Do you still torque to the torque spec? How much does the rubber compress? Do you think this would stress the bolts too much, due to the entire mount being able to flex slightly now?
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I didn't torque to spec, I just tighten them till I figured they were not going to come loose on me. I considered the work that this part does and just didn't leave them sloppy loose.
The rubber does squeeze down about 1/4 of the over all thickness. This is not any kind of standard rubber you will have laying around unless you lay hardwood floors for a living or install metal stairs. I had to special order it from the factory in McMinville, OR for my home improvement project years ago. They sent it to Home Depot for me to pick up. HD does have the thinner version in stock and if you bought one foot of it you would have a lifetime of it. Comes on a four foot wide roll. I used a piece that was probably 2 inches by 4 inches. That would be 72 pieces in a 4 sq foot section (1 x 4).
I doubt the bolts are stressed at all as they are only out from where they are normally by at most an 1/8 of an inch. The picture doesn't really show how close the frame and mount are together. The rubber is out past the mount and is sort of ballooning out the bottom.
The mount does not flex at all tight to the frame as normal just free of vibration transfer.
I bet we would get similar results with a doubled up piece of bike inner tube.
What did the OP use? Some sort of pump rubber?
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Good to know, it looks like a good idea. I'm familiar with that rubber, I remodel houses for a living. I think I saw someone selling a piece of rubber specifically for that purpose
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Update:
Belt is still fine
I have bad CVs but I definitely had bad diff bearings
I need to align my motor as it shakes again ::)