VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on December 24, 2012, 12:20:57 pm
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What I thought was a weak starter turns out to be a weak battery. I'm not sure if the battery that's in there now is the correct one but I want to buy the biggest battery that will fit. Will a group 49 or group 93 battery fit the Caddy? If not which one? Advance has a coupon code DOTW52 for $40 off off $100 purchases till 12/29.
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Measuring tape? Buy one and try it? LoL
I find the biggest issue with changing types, is the posts are in different locations.
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I'm wondering the same thing. 850 cca vs 650. nice power difference. The Group 93 battery is wider by about 4 inches http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/bcigroup. I need to get a battery for a mk1 scirocco, unfortunately i don't have the car yet to measure if it will fit. Modify the battery tray i guess, would look something like this if you have the stock radiator:
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I have the same battery in my MK2 as I do my chevy pickup. 1000 CA 900CCA nEVERSTART MAXX. Big, yellow, and from Walmart *haven't been inside any walmart in over a year now* They fit, but I put a thick piece of cardboard in between it and the rad so the screw doesn't wear into the battery. It is about 5" too wide and hangs over to about the starter, but it sits there.
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I have the same battery in my MK2 as I do my chevy pickup. 1000 CA 900CCA nEVERSTART MAXX. Big, yellow, and from Walmart *haven't been inside any walmart in over a year now* They fit, but I put a thick piece of cardboard in between it and the rad so the screw doesn't wear into the battery. It is about 5" too wide and hangs over to about the starter, but it sits there.
pretty sure thats the same battery i run.. ive had 1000cca batteries in a mk1 before. costco battery tho.
mostly run les schwab batteries now days. they are what i often times get for free...
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72" by 51" by whatever height you want.
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72" by 51" by whatever height you want.
LMFAO!!!
thats the funniest thing ive heard all week!
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I'm wondering the same thing. 850 cca vs 650. nice power difference. The Group 93 battery is wider by about 4 inches http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/bcigroup. I need to get a battery for a mk1 scirocco, unfortunately i don't have the car yet to measure if it will fit. Modify the battery tray i guess, would look something like this if you have the stock radiator:
What model VW is the pic below and what group # battery is it? Anyone else tried fitting a group 93 battery into a Caddy?
edit: My Caddy is not with me and I am trying to order the battery online before the deal ($40 off) expires today.
(http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32599.0;attach=707;image)
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Wondering the same thing I pulled that picture off the internet (Bing Images) http://www.alexlockhart.com/rabbit/html/pic27.html , I'm not sure of the actual group number of the battery in the picture, but that is what they look like. I have one in my 85' mercedes diesel. I'm really tempted to get one too, the AZ part states:
Product Application(s):
1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TD
Must use part labeled Part Number 93-1 and Group H8/LN5/49; 825 CCA; OE Group H8; OE CCA Rating: 740
,,, so it's a group 93, 49 , LN5, or H8. Battery posts and dimensions are the same just wider so it will overhang the battery tray which MAY but probably won't be a problem.
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You may want to research residual capacity and amp-hours as well as these are particularly important for a diesel. The glowplug cycle draws a lot of current and a gasser battery may not have enough CA after a GP cycle or two. One of the best batteries for an IDI would be an OEM ALH battery. It's large and has the Ah that virtually no aftermarket battery can match. Only downside is it's expensive (usually close to $200 but some dealers sell it as low as $108).
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I have a group 65 in my rabbit. Terminals are on the wrong sides though. It works. Quite well.
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(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/ad66914c789c48c289ebc2f102d41f5e/l.jpg)
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/11/9c1d854984f3564512bce9fe5d1c5fd4/l.jpg)
This is my battery setup in the old flat red bunny and the MK2. Same 1/0 cable, same battery, just a different car. The battery actually fits better in the old 84 than it does in the 86. I think the a/c was the difference. It pretty much equalizes the weight of the engine lol. With 1000CA I never had an issue with cranking speed even if I wanted to glow the plugs 3 times in 0F weather.
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I run 1000 cca Optima redtop battery in my Caddy.
Largely because AGM makes no battery corrosion and they last so long.
Additionally, I like the wingnut terminals.
Wayne
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I am not a fan of Optimas. Most that I have encountered need warranteed right as new. Granted they do take care of it, but what a pain.
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I have 13 Optimas in use, some for over ten years. Really like the no corrosion feature. As acid batteries fail, I AGM the equipment.
Have lost one; it was 10 years old, still charges up, but droops below 70% overnight with terminals disconnected. Will start a car still, but not dependable. I use it to run my fuel tank pump still.
Thats a pretty good record.
I bought an Oddessy 2250, and sent it back for warranty after 8 months, but started discussion warranty exchange at 5 months, and there was no cold weather involved. The reason I sent it back, was when charging at 13.4V, it boiled acid out of two cells, which is not supposed to happen. I have not had that issue with Optimas.
The biggest problem I have seen with AGM batteries is learning how to charge them or people not understanding how to charge them. I have drained them to zero, put a charger on them and it kicks out saying "bad". Simply disconnect terminals, charge again, repeatedly bringing it back up about 20% each time. Once at 70%, Optimas will charge right up and be a good battery again. Fully drained AGM charge best on digital chargers compatible with AGM vs alternator. Once at 70%, or even at 50% any 12v-14VDC source is good.
Since all my Autos are nearly 20 years or older, as well my tractors, I do not like to replace battery trays, etc.
I have 16 diesel vehicles or diesel equipment to service, and the time saved from cleaning terminals amounts up. Not cleaning terminal in 5 or more years is valuable time saved.
For people who don't keep an auto over 5-8 years, I do not suggest them. For me on my farm, they are great.
Wayne
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I bought the group 93 850 CCA battery from Advance for around $70 with the discount but have not picked it up yet. Figuring such a good deal I can't go wrong. I am also suppose to be getting a coupon $50 off a $100 purchase as part of the deal.
I have a blue top Optima in my Jetta that's more than 10 years old (my guess about 14) and no problems with it. If the group 93 won't fit in the Caddy, it may fit the Jetta and I'll just swap them.
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(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/136/ad66914c789c48c289ebc2f102d41f5e/l.jpg)
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/11/9c1d854984f3564512bce9fe5d1c5fd4/l.jpg)
This is my battery setup in the old flat red bunny and the MK2. Same 1/0 cable, same battery, just a different car. The battery actually fits better in the old 84 than it does in the 86. I think the a/c was the difference. It pretty much equalizes the weight of the engine lol. With 1000CA I never had an issue with cranking speed even if I wanted to glow the plugs 3 times in 0F weather.
That's a frickin big battery! How do you have it mounted? Surely the stock mount does not fit.
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You may want to research residual capacity and amp-hours as well as these are particularly important for a diesel. The glowplug cycle draws a lot of current and a gasser battery may not have enough CA after a GP cycle or two. One of the best batteries for an IDI would be an OEM ALH battery. It's large and has the Ah that virtually no aftermarket battery can match. Only downside is it's expensive (usually close to $200 but some dealers sell it as low as $108).
I wish batteries are specified and rated in amp hours since it will make comparison so much easier. AFAIK no battery mfgs does that in the US.
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On my MK2 I had the rubber bungie strap and the one edge without the battery hold down. I forget on the MK1 I think it fit in the holder and just stuck out the one side. It has been too long. The 1/0 cable doesnt' really like to flex much so it will hold the battery in postition pretty much if you can get it to push the battery against the car.
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I bought the group 93 850 CCA battery from Advance for around $70 with the discount but have not picked it up yet. Figuring such a good deal I can't go wrong. I am also suppose to be getting a coupon $50 off a $100 purchase as part of the deal.
I have a blue top Optima in my Jetta that's more than 10 years old (my guess about 14) and no problems with it. If the group 93 won't fit in the Caddy, it may fit the Jetta and I'll just swap them.
That's a lot of battery for 70 bucks. I missed out on the deal, but mercedes battery is the same size and I have a optima battery that I bought off craigslist that I use on my computer UPS (beats buying the original little one). Maybe when Advanced has another promo like that I'll get one. http://www.techbargains.com/vendor_detail.cfm/4240/Advance-Auto-Parts-coupon-code
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I'm wondering the same thing. 850 cca vs 650. nice power difference. The Group 93 battery is wider by about 4 inches http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/bcigroup. I need to get a battery for a mk1 scirocco, unfortunately i don't have the car yet to measure if it will fit. Modify the battery tray i guess, would look something like this if you have the stock radiator:
What model VW is the pic below and what group # battery is it? Anyone else tried fitting a group 93 battery into a Caddy?
edit: My Caddy is not with me and I am trying to order the battery online before the deal ($40 off) expires today.
(http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32599.0;attach=707;image)
A group 93, like Interstate's MTP93, will barely fit in an '84 Rabbit if you run the wires underneath the battery tray instead of next to the battery.
The radiator is mounted different in an '84, probably an '83 too.
It moves the radiator farther from the battery.
Here's a pic of one in (pa)Tina:
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8863/4doorbigbattery.jpg) (http://img825.imageshack.us/i/4doorbigbattery.jpg/)
I can't get the G93 to fit the MK2s.
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There you have it. MK1!
I've got to go pick up a 81' scirocco (with a 1.6 n/a conversion), check it out, and drive it from Texas to Florida to get it home. I want a big battery just to have it. Rumor has it that it has a fuel issue, so the bigger battery might really come into play.
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Type 34, just fitted one to the mk2 and it was small in there. Fully confident it will fit a mk1 way better. About two inches to the fender, and an inch and a half to the PS reservoir. Stock cables reached fine, although they are on my today's upgrade list ;) 00AWG baby! :)
1050 CA 875 CCA
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/88%20Jetta/20130102_203357.jpg)
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/88%20Jetta/20130102_203346.jpg)
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm307/J_holubek/88%20Jetta/20130102_203351.jpg)
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The Advance group 93 battery does not fit in the 81 Caddy! It hits the fan shroud. It can be made to fit if the battery mount is moved towards the fire wall. My battery mount is a bit on the rusty side. Looks like it is welded in also. Has anyone replaced the battery mount? What's the best way for a new mount?
Here's a pic of the 93 battery sitting at an angle and not seated in the mount (sitting on top of it).
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20130103_153500.jpg)
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What's the other side of the shroud look like?
Is there a couple spacer mounts?
Maybe you could swap them to the driver's side and move the shroud over.
Maybe use an "S" clip instead of a "C" clip to mount it to the front.
Same size battery as the one I pictured in my '84.
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Why modify to fit a 93?? The group 34 fits with room to spare in an mk2.. it will still be spacious in an mk1.
875 CCA, and a small package.. Cannot beat the value.
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Why modify to fit a 93?? The group 34 fits with room to spare in an mk2.. it will still be spacious in an mk1.
875 CCA, and a small package.. Cannot beat the value.
Because I bought one already (cheap) and it cannot be exchanged for a group 34 for the same price.
Last time I checked Advance, their group 34 silver battery was 660 CCA
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_battery-group-size-34-660-cca-autocraft-silver_2040271-p
their group 34 gold was 800 CCA, no where near 875 CCA.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_battery-group-size-34-78-800-cca-autocraft-gold_2040409-p
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I think i'm gonna pickup the autocraft gold 800cca 20% of today better than the 550 i have now on a cracked and leaking die hard piece of sh-i-t.
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http://www.tscstores.com/12-volt-Group-3478-875-CCA-70-month-wty-P5632.aspx
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it pays to shop around. found a 1000ca 850cca at pep boys for 100 bucks group 34/78 I like having the dual terminal option on it. They also had a 20 dollars off 100 or more tempted to buy one for my passat for when i get the tdi in it.
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I'm running a red Top in my Caddy, no problems so far
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/btcsc3000/images_zpsf276029d.jpeg)
Battery Type: Sprial AGM
BCI Group Size: 34/78
Cold Cranking Amps: 800 amps
Cranking Amps: 1000 amps
Deep Cycle/Starting: Starting
Height: 7 13/16 in
Length: 10 in
Maintenance Free: Yes
Reserve Capacity: 100 min
Terminal Type: Dual Termimal
Voltage: 12 v
Weight: 41 lbs
Width: 6 7/8 in
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Nice! What did it cost?
I'm running a red Top in my Caddy, no problems so far
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/btcsc3000/images_zpsf276029d.jpeg)
Battery Type: Sprial AGM
BCI Group Size: 34/78
Cold Cranking Amps: 800 amps
Cranking Amps: 1000 amps
Deep Cycle/Starting: Starting
Height: 7 13/16 in
Length: 10 in
Maintenance Free: Yes
Reserve Capacity: 100 min
Terminal Type: Dual Termimal
Voltage: 12 v
Weight: 41 lbs
Width: 6 7/8 in
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Nice! What did it cost?
I'm running a red Top in my Caddy, no problems so far
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/btcsc3000/images_zpsf276029d.jpeg)
Battery Type: Sprial AGM
BCI Group Size: 34/78
Cold Cranking Amps: 800 amps
Cranking Amps: 1000 amps
Deep Cycle/Starting: Starting
Height: 7 13/16 in
Length: 10 in
Maintenance Free: Yes
Reserve Capacity: 100 min
Terminal Type: Dual Termimal
Voltage: 12 v
Weight: 41 lbs
Width: 6 7/8 in
only 200 bucks
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Any thought about running two batteries? I suspect that there isn't enough room on the pass. side. for another battery.
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I have thought about it, tons of room depending on your setup. What does your passenger side look like? For me, I'd need only to move my washer bottle, and run a shorter intake with my cone filter.. possibly up in to the rain tray. One could run the biggest battery desired in the trunk with a pair of huge gauge cables running to the other battery.. For you in the bed, with a nicely done box.. Run the cables and some heat sheathing down the exhaust tunnel.. good to go.
Electricity always takes the path of least resistance, so the starter will still pull its majority from the native battery being the path is much shorter. If that battery should drop below what the starter wants to take then it will start pulling from the back battery. It is not an exact on/off switch.. but it is how it works more or less.
ps. I once had a person tell me that running two batteries would fry all the electrical in my car... and that running a 120A alternator in a car originally designed for a 50A would also fry everything and start fires... Really? This guy was a self-proclaimed electrical guru too...
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Aah the old red top,those were the days.at my old generator job we used those and replaced them after 4 years for safety.i had tons of em and gave em to friends.i ended up buying one at the time and it lasted just shy of 11 yrs.amazing.im runnin a blue top i got at a job and its 4 yrs old,itll be ok another 4 probably.if i had to buy one i would but i keep getting them free.
the model pictured is nice,dual post,you can hook up extra accys easier.
it was 5 out the other morning and sooty didnt crank 2 seconds and was lit.it idled at about 39 to 42 rpms for about 3 minutes though.
best bang for the buck,optima.they are around 200-220@advance,try online somewhere else.they can be shipped ups ground they are termed dry.
now for my race car,im gonna use an odyssey i think the model is 680u or somethin.....its half the width of a lawnmower battery and hits with 680cca for 5 seconds.oh it weighs like 14 pounds..not a winter battery but for a dude lookin to lose weight in summer its ok.
i see them statr the big ol lycoming 6 cyl plane engines all the time,itll do a vw diesel in the summer
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Aah the old red top,those were the days.at my old generator job we used those and replaced them after 4 years for safety.i had tons of em and gave em to friends.i ended up buying one at the time and it lasted just shy of 11 yrs.amazing.im runnin a blue top i got at a job and its 4 yrs old,itll be ok another 4 probably.if i had to buy one i would but i keep getting them free.
the model pictured is nice,dual post,you can hook up extra accys easier.
it was 5 out the other morning and sooty didnt crank 2 seconds and was lit.it idled at about 39 to 42 rpms for about 3 minutes though.
best bang for the buck,optima.they are around 200-220@advance,try online somewhere else.they can be shipped ups ground they are termed dry.
now for my race car,im gonna use an odyssey i think the model is 680u or somethin.....its half the width of a lawnmower battery and hits with 680cca for 5 seconds.oh it weighs like 14 pounds..not a winter battery but for a dude lookin to lose weight in summer its ok.
i see them statr the big ol lycoming 6 cyl plane engines all the time,itll do a vw diesel in the summer
PM me if you still get free used Optima's. Maybe we can do some trading?
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x2
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Aah the old red top,those were the days.at my old generator job we used those and replaced them after 4 years for safety.
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Yep 200
Nice! What did it cost?
I'm running a red Top in my Caddy, no problems so far
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/btcsc3000/images_zpsf276029d.jpeg)
Battery Type: Sprial AGM
BCI Group Size: 34/78
Cold Cranking Amps: 800 amps
Cranking Amps: 1000 amps
Deep Cycle/Starting: Starting
Height: 7 13/16 in
Length: 10 in
Maintenance Free: Yes
Reserve Capacity: 100 min
Terminal Type: Dual Termimal
Voltage: 12 v
Weight: 41 lbs
Width: 6 7/8 in
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Unfortunately I don't work at that place anymore :(
I occasionally get one here and there where I work now but not like I did.
Do they still make the 800 u I think it was?
It has side and top post which makes it nice to hook up your accessories to, and the 800 is plenty.
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A group 49 should fit without issues. I think it was the same price, too.
My Passat TDI called for a 41 and i wanted bigger. 49 measures just under 14" wide... I could have easily gone 16" wide. The terminals are properly oriented, although the battery needs to be shimmed about 1/4" up so it's not loose in the tray. 1000ca/875cca.
I think I had a Deka AGM 34/78 that lived for almost 10 years. Incorrect terminals, though.
-Todd
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Hey 8v that electrical guru wasnt totally wrong. You should upgrade the charging harness to some fat 8 or 10 guage because yea if you have a 120 amp alt and the batteries ask for a lottA amps to recharge yes it will overload he factory wiring. You could probably cheat and run a fat cable from the alt to the battery and thatll remedy a potential burnup
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Hey 8v that electrical guru wasnt totally wrong.
He didn't mean Alt-to-battery charging wire.. he meant the interior stock wiring.. lol! I was like yes,, because all of the sudden everything is now pulling more power than before haha.
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Hey 8v that electrical guru wasnt totally wrong.
He didn't mean Alt-to-battery charging wire.. he meant the interior stock wiring.. lol! I was like yes,, because all of the sudden everything is now pulling more power than before haha.
Lots of older American stuff routed the full charging current of the alternator through an in-dash ammeter (Chrysler stuff in particular)... So there definitely have been quite a few vehicles manufactured where his statement would be 100% accurate. I've owned several of them! On those vehicles dramatically increasing the alternator output either through additional draw or through a larger alternator could quite easily fry stuff, especially with the crappy bulkhead connectors they used to use. I had a vehicle or two where we had to punch out the burned/corroded bulkhead connector pins and then rewire with some heavy gauge copper instead.
Our VWs don't have anything like that - they run directly from the alternator to the battery. It's not a bad idea to increase the size of that wire either way, but if you are running a larger battery/alternator then it'd be almost a requirement.
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Lots of older American stuff routed the full charging current of the alternator through an in-dash ammeter (Chrysler stuff in particular)... So there definitely have been quite a few vehicles manufactured where his statement would be 100% accurate.
I didn't take those in to account, however I do not believe that was what he was talking about either.
Furthermore, how could upping the alternators ability to produce a higher amperage damage that wiring? The in car components are not all of a sudden pulling more amperage, and causing more amperage to pulled through the ammeter ??? .
Just because the car has a higher amperage alternator does not mean all of that amperage is going through the ammeter does it?
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I guess the only problem is now the alternator may want to push more amps to the hungry battery..
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If I want to make my own battery cables, what are good ends and where to buy them for the battery terminals. I want ones that can be crimped and soldered. I have some MIL spec aircraft grade 2 or 3 AWG cables that should work well.
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Just because the car has a higher amperage alternator does not mean all of that amperage is going through the ammeter does it?
No. Whatever accessories are behind an ammeter (or no ammeter) will still draw the normal amount, that its able to.
Having a higher amperage alternator just means more accessories may be run simultaneously it overtaxing the alternator.
-Todd
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Right. You could turn on all the accessories from factory and not fry the wiring, so unless you add more draw.. a bigger alt isn't going to fry anything. Except maybe because of the battery now being able to pull a bigger load if it was drained down.
If I drain my battery down for whatever reason, my 120A alt charges it back up in short order. Awessomee.
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1.9TD AAZ with Serpentine in 81 Caddy.
I replaced all my cables with welding cable (actually huge wire from junk NATO Army Slave cables) and used copper "00" soldier ends.
Then fabricated a ground strap from engine/tranny to body of same.
That ended my flashing glow-plug light symptoms.
Plus I use only AGM batteries, no corrosion anymore. My God, she cranks.
Just wired my LED headlamps with relays and 10 Gage to relay and HL.
WOW! EWwhat lights!
I now convert all my diesels to this big battery cable and run only AGM. If you are going to keep her (my Caddy) longterm, AGM pays off.
Here in VA, you are rust free for the most part. And she's rust free.
"00" (@ 13mm - 1/2" ends, bare wire size is 11mm -7/16". Pretty big ends. Buy WELDING cable ends.
Wayne
If I want to make my own battery cables, what are good ends and where to buy them for the battery terminals. I want ones that can be crimped and soldered. I have some MIL spec aircraft grade 2 or 3 AWG cables that should work well.
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This is an awesome website. All kinds of good stuff i have reffered to for years
http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/tm-1.shtml
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/howitworks.shtml
Oh,btw i dont recommend ammeters. Ever seen one catch on fire?
Yea when i was in tech school i read an article in car craft about it. I told my buddy who had a cutlass with an ammeter in it. He laughed. Well a week later he wasnt laughing when i was riding shotgun and smoke rolled out from under the dash. Yup the ammeter took a crap. We reacted fast and pulled the + off the battery. Then we rigged the charge lead without the ammeter to get us home. He said he woulda never believed it if i didnt tell him.
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Custombatterycables.com
http://www.custombatterycables.com/
best battery, iam running a 1800 amp
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kinetik-HC1800-KHC1800-1900-Amp-12V-High-Current-Car-Audio-Power-Cell-Battery-/360656881409?pt=US_Car_Audio_Video_Capacitors&hash=item53f8d34701&vxp=mtr
very small
cnc mount can be welded in place
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If I want to make my own battery cables, what are good ends and where to buy them for the battery terminals. I want ones that can be crimped and soldered. I have some MIL spec aircraft grade 2 or 3 AWG cables that should work well.
http://www.delcity.net/ (http://www.delcity.net/)
Best prices I have found anywhere.
Just ordered four #6 solder terminals and a covered fuse holder for my glow-plug pimp job. They have serious crimping tools as well but I'm going to stay with solder only. I figure if the lug gets too hot for solder alone, something is wrong with the circuit.