VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: Rising on December 06, 2012, 11:33:03 pm
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Okay so maybe I'm still a bit ricey from my subaru roots but I love hatch wings/spoilers. Even on mk1 I just feel like the top of the hatch is empty looking without some kind of little lip or wing or something there. Anyway I do like the zender 3 pc. spoiler like so:
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4246/t2ec16jhjiye9qucno7bqcg.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/t2ec16jhjiye9qucno7bqcg.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
But I don't like the fact that it is 3 pc. and i dont' like the wrap around look. Just seems weird to me. Anyway. So I want something that is similar but non wrap around and with a third brake light and maybe just a tad longer and functional. So I spent a little while mocking up something on google sketch-up and it seemed pretty interesting so i thought I would share. I know this isn't really a aesthetic focused forum but I know that the only aesthetic focused forum around would probably flame me half to death just for thinking about doing something different :-\
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/7536/frontv.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/frontv.png/)
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/1166/profilegw.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/profilegw.png/)
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6701/reard.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/reard.png/)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4223/rearside.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/29/rearside.png/)
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8711/topview.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/topview.png/)
I designed it to be effective as an actual wing and spoiler by tilting it slightly upwards and spacing out the wing so air can flow underneath and overtop with a reverse aerofoil design. Possible slight downforce? (probably doesn't matter in a diesel and would likely just net -mpg) But it was just a prototype. The real thing will likely be much more if not completely level.
Also it seems a little too... sharp. I need to blend it in with the lines of the car a bit more. But not bad for a first attempt.
Any feedback?
Ps. i didn't make the rabbit model in sketchup... downloaded that. Just the wing :)
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Go for it. Many people care a bit too much what others think on the internet. I pretty much don't, some things I will get a bit irritated with, but what I am getting at is this. If you like it do it. It is your car and you are the one that has to like it. There was a guy that had some weird mexican rear tail/brake lights on his MK1 and some flammed him. He got bent out of shape and fired back...what does it matter? If you like it then that is it. It is your style and choice. I personally think it doesn't look good or bad, just there. I like stuff that makes my MK1's *when I had MK1s* look even more rediculous or funny. I had one that I put every piece of chewed bubble gum on the roof. It was a goldish completely rusted out 4 door rabbit and it looked like you parked it under 10,000 pigeons in a barn after about 5 months. I didn't care, but all the drive through people would comment, I would just laugh.
I have an idea that I would rock on mk1. You remember the slotted/vent looking deals on the trans am, camaro, firebird, etc. I think that would look funny on mk1.
On a building note, that wouldn't be too hard to make out of sheet metal or fiberglass.
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There is a user on here that did a very similar looking rear wing setup on a mk2 Jetta. It is much bigger and actually nets him a few mpg per tank.. So yes go for it. Keep on researching the design aspects of what you want to go on behimd the car in terms of air flow, look good and knock up a few mpg?? Nice.
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(http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141650&d=1277960433)
This is what I am talking about. I think MK1 would be fabulous with it on. Many laughs
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Sweet, lol.
There are folks on ecomodder playing with "FLow Illustrator". Might be fun to try. http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/flow-illustrator-stand-alone-version-windows-only-19661-6.html
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Woot window louvers!! Haha. I used to think those were the coolest things ever when I was a kid. You are right though! I should pick up a set for the rabbit lol.
Theman I definitely feel you about people getting too uppity about liking their car. And honestly that is part of the reason I don't post up much or basically EVER post pictures of my car because I don't really care lol. I try to chime in and help when I can but I'm not really into "guy guys guys is it okay to put these rims on?!!"
Haha. But I also feel you about the more ridiculous thing. I think these things are quirky little monsters. They need to have a little quirk to them or they just aren't rabbits.
But more so I'm looking for an extra set of eyes on some of the angles and such to try and do it better ya know? And it was my first time doing anything 3d and I had to show someone hahaha I was planning on just mocking with foam or card board but this seemed cooler ha
Tyler: that looks awesome! I may have to try that out!
8v: I'd be really interested to see that at some point hopefully they will post up. I know the idea of a kammback is very popular in ecomodding and can be quite effective at reducing drag coefficient. I also know that mk1 and hatchbacks in general create a large swirling vacuum behind them which adds drag and by smoothing the air over a wing and extending it away from the rear you can reduce that effect although I'm not sure how much.
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I think you wold see larger real world gains flipping the wing, and filling the low pressure area at the back of the car
(http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/plugins/PostviaEmail/images/1983_GMC_Suburban_2500_4x4_For_Sale_Rear_resize.jpg)
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That looks really clean. Not too big and ricey but it's big enough to where it would be semi-functional
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I think you wold see larger real world gains flipping the wing, and filling the low pressure area at the back of the car
(http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/plugins/PostviaEmail/images/1983_GMC_Suburban_2500_4x4_For_Sale_Rear_resize.jpg)
holy CRAP...
thats a nice 'burb...
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Wish mine were that nice, it was the first I found with that deflector style.
I heard 1.5-2 MPG gain.
http://bringatrailer.com/2011/02/01/nicest-we-have-seen-1983-gmc-suburban-4x4/
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Hi, Tipping up will cause a bigger wake behind your car. Use more gas, less top end that sort of thing. The louvers are cool.
Here is mine.
(http://www.veloliner.com/vw/vw12312as.JPG)
(http://www.veloliner.com/vw/vw12312b.JPG)
I am not totally happy with the aesthetics of the deck lid parkbench. I did some tuft testing and can get air flowing over the top of the tail fairing.
Part of my design is to keep access to the trunk without hassle.
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Honda-itis. is that for real?
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I take it you've never looked at eco-modder Coaster?
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Ricer, ah yeah .... It's the 155/80 snow tires running 50psi and stock exhaust that give it away. :)
A previous owner did put koni struts and springs in the car.
Nothing wrong with good mileage. Less wear and tear. Less air drag.
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The shell looks like it's in good shape. ::envy::
55mpg is pretty damn good, my 86 has gotten close... maybe this year, after a swap.
If you have a strong interest in aerodynamics, openFOAM is a free CFD linux program. Not simple or easy.
(http://unicluster.fis.unical.it/images/stories/fluid-dynamics.jpg)
http://www.openfoam.com/
Affordable CAD (that plays well with others) http://www.alibre.com/
I'm an end-user, not a company shill.
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Maybe I need to start reading on the eco-modder site. At least for a few grins and giggles I guess. I guess I would learn something and I am interested in getting back to 50 mpg. Actually would like to just get the car running again, another thread there.
What strikes me is the bulkiness of the whole affair. Reminds me of a bottle opener or something you would get a forklift under and move the car to a storage rack.
I do understand aerodynamics and pushing air or creating turbulence is generally never pretty. Especially if not designed into the car body in the first place. I run an air dam on the front of my car, tires up to dangerously high pressures and I have thought of a rear spoiler. Just not that kind. I see lots of the new stuff is very curvy has several different angles blended into the up or down areas. Time to mod up an old surfboard I think. Those cores are easy to sand to form.
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Take a look at almost any newer SUV. They all have a wing extending above the back window. Just imitate. Your surfboard experience is exactly what you need for the project. The drawing of your wing was great just tip it down a tiny bit rather than up.
Good luck.
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Take a look at almost any newer SUV. They all have a wing extending above the back window. Just imitate. Your surfboard experience is exactly what you need for the project. The drawing of your wing was great just tip it down a tiny bit rather than up.
Good luck.
Excellent yes! I will definitely take this into account for my next draft. It seems from some of the information i've gathered that I need to actually raise the wing up some more to effect any real downforce and lower it some more to get the diesel savings i was hoping for. So what do you think about making an adjustable wing? I don't think it would be that hard. I know tons of wings are adjustable. You basically just make the side sections and center sections separately and join them with some hardware that has a couple positions it can lock into. It might be a neat concept to provide street gas savings and track performance. Although tracking isn't exactly what I'm after for my diesel rabbit. I know there are alot of people with GTI's who track their cars and it might be worth making a few of these.
I'm still considering things. But for mine I may just make a down turned eco wing.
The shell looks like it's in good shape. ::envy::
55mpg is pretty damn good, my 86 has gotten close... maybe this year, after a swap.
If you have a strong interest in aerodynamics, openFOAM is a free CFD linux program. Not simple or easy.
(http://unicluster.fis.unical.it/images/stories/fluid-dynamics.jpg)
http://www.openfoam.com/
Affordable CAD (that plays well with others) http://www.alibre.com/
I'm an end-user, not a company shill.
This is exactly the kind of thing i've been looking for and I'm a linux user anyway ;)
I'll try to see if it's possible to convert my model over to something like that and run some testing and i'd be interested to see a baseline for the rabbits anyway. Possibly even compare the effects of lowering/front air dam in combination with some sort of drag reducing spoiler. Should be interesting anyway!
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I'll try to see if it's possible to convert my model over to something like that and run some testing and i'd be interested to see a baseline for the rabbits anyway.
AIUI, models should be in the stl format. Got a link to that model?... I'l see if I can open it and convert it.
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Since about 1960 race cars have gone away from streamlining, except Bonneville type cars. The emphasis has been on down-force. Specifically how to get the maximum downforce for the minimum drag penalty. Simply downforce increases drag. Formula cars are all about pushing the car down to the road as efficiently as possible. Their coefficient of drag is pretty high. You want to minimize drag which is to get the air to leave you with the smallest wake as possible.
Read about the Kamm effect.
I am not convinced that my trunk lid park bench offers much help I think I should redesign it. My vw will coast in neutral for a half mile on the flat and decrease from 60 to 40 or 45.
The parts that I have added to my car weigh about 8 pounds.
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I'll try to see if it's possible to convert my model over to something like that and run some testing and i'd be interested to see a baseline for the rabbits anyway.
AIUI, models should be in the stl format. Got a link to that model?... I'l see if I can open it and convert it.
This is the model I used for the design:
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=b698d2a9e5e59cea8bb31546cc8ae90e
Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2
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Cool.
It seems I won't need to do the conversion, if you can use the free and open-source skp ->stl plugin:
"This is a plugin script for Google's free 3D design program Sketchup. The free version of Sketchup has limited file export options and many CAM programs will not recognise the native Sketchup (SKP) file format. This plugin allows you to export your Sketchup model as a DXF or STL files readable by most CAM and 3D printer software."
http://www.guitar-list.com/download-software/convert-sketchup-skp-files-dxf-or-stl
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A few of the members have mentioned the "tip-down" style. In my teens my parents had a Dodge Aspen station wagon with one of these (http://www.gluck.net/paul/carhistory/79DodgeAspenWagon.jpg (http://www.gluck.net/paul/carhistory/79DodgeAspenWagon.jpg)) and it did an amazing job of keeping the rear window clean. It pulls some air down and forces it across the window glass. I think in the real world that might have a more usefull application for a Golf than the downforce you would gain from a raised lip style.
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Take a look at the newest Acura RDX, I think a slightly scaled down model would be perfect.