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General Information => General => Topic started by: smutts on December 04, 2012, 10:50:33 am

Title: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: smutts on December 04, 2012, 10:50:33 am
Subject says it all really, hopefully 20+ years of heat soak and 220k miles explains it. Given the shaft a wiggle and seems .25mm ish! axial play, and less than .1mm radial so hopefully will be okay. The seal itself is easy enough as it is the same size as the cam and crank, but rotates the other way, so check the seal isn't a one way jobby. Harder to get in the U.K. is the green viton 56x2 o-ring, vw part no. N90353501, as none of the motor factors stock it, so off to VW £7 +vat for a 50p part. >:( so get one off Ebay before you need it from an o-ring stockist for lots less.
Trickiest bit is undoing the 60lbft bolt that holds the fragile, easily dented aluminium pulley as there is no good way to do it without ingenuity, or a very big "f" spanner like the ones my granddad used to use engaged in the sproket holes.
So far so good, just need the rain to stop, ..............how does it know?  ::)
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: CRSMP5 on December 04, 2012, 11:53:06 am
stick a deep wall 13mm socket on the bolt for the seal holder thru the im shaft pully.. that locks it to loosen/tighten the im pully bolt..

next pushed out = oil pressure too high..

2 ways this happens to commoin folk...

1.) too thick a oil for cold months.. aka 15w40 in diesel needs to be 5w30 or 10w30 in cold months if you do nuumber 2

2.) you burry your go pedal right on start up 1st thing of day.. to let the oil temps get up to 50-60*c first this seal will never blow out..

but ive done this seal on a fri before, just to repeat on monday due to #1 and #2 rules being broken and the drver just no get it..
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: srgtlord on December 04, 2012, 12:09:59 pm
Maybe thats what happened to my car... I run 15w-40 year round and put pedal to the metal right after start up...
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: TylerDurden on December 04, 2012, 12:39:10 pm
Trickiest bit is undoing the 60lbft bolt that holds the fragile, easily dented aluminium pulley as there is no good way to do it without ingenuity, or a very big "f" spanner like the ones my granddad used to use engaged in the sproket holes.
I use a rubber strap-wrench:
(http://s.shld.net/is/image/Sears/9990000037223911)
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 04, 2012, 12:44:14 pm
I take my I shaft pulleys off with a socket extension jammed in a hole to a recess in the block. Havent broken any *** yet ;)
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: fatmobile on December 04, 2012, 05:37:37 pm
Must be a MK2 NA..
Drill out the restrictors in the intake.
 Probably a groove in the I-shaft where the seal rides, the pressure does it.


 Pull the I-shaft out a little ways and check the bearings,
side-to-side play won't tell you anything,
they chip out.
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: bajacalal on December 04, 2012, 07:25:24 pm
I have a "universal pulley holder."

I bought it, but it looks really easy to make with a couple pieces of flat stock and a couple bolts.

The flat stock is like a pair of scissors, bolted together at the bottom and at the other end, bolts protrude so you can stick it into a pulley with holes or gaps however you want.
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: smutts on December 06, 2012, 04:00:19 am
The oil ....... was Asda's finest 5W40 "synthetic", apologies for all those people behind me who discovered what a gallon of this stuff does on a mile of wet road, :o, I didn't see too much wreckage when I got towed home by the AA later on, so fingers crossed. Anyway, not too thick, the seal fell out after 25 miles, and I am very gentle with engines until they warm up, this saves a lot of cracked heads. Well, I will stick it all back together and hope for the best. Glad I bought two seals as I buggered up the first one. And thanks for your thoughts. Big bang about 2 o'clock G.M.T. ;D
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: smutts on December 11, 2012, 01:46:17 pm
 :)All is now a pukka job! Thanks for your thoughts.
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: rs899 on December 11, 2012, 04:11:26 pm
Quote
All is now a pukka job!

Please translate.  I have worked with Brits quite a lot over the years but have never heard this one.  Does this mean you had a positive outcome? :)
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: ORCoaster on December 11, 2012, 07:48:39 pm
Could it be this?

pukka, pucka [ˈpʌkə]
adj (esp in India)
1. properly or perfectly done, constructed, etc. a pukka road
2. genuine pukka sahib
[from Hindi pakkā firm, from Sanskrit pakva]
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 19, 2012, 06:57:32 pm
Gotta be.

;)
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: rs899 on October 14, 2013, 04:00:33 am
Quote
:)All is now a pukka job!

Still not exactly sure what this means...

I had to fix this seal myself this weekend.

I had noticed a bit of an oil leak lately.

I was changing the timing belt and water pump anyway, as it happened, so this was not a big deal at all. 

I am a bit more concerned with why it happened...

Quote
Must be a MK2 NA..
Drill out the restrictors in the intake.

What's this about?

Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: libbydiesel on October 14, 2013, 07:14:13 am
Torque spec is 33 ft-lbs or 45 NM.  Where did 60 ft-lbs come from?
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: bbob203 on October 14, 2013, 09:00:57 am
Torque spec is 33 ft-lbs or 45 NM.  Where did 60 ft-lbs come from?

60ft lbs way to tight...
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: fatmobile on October 14, 2013, 10:51:19 pm
Must be a MK2 NA..
Drill out the restrictors in the intake.
 Probably a groove in the I-shaft where the seal rides, the pressure does it.


 Pull the I-shaft out a little ways and check the bearings,
side-to-side play won't tell you anything,
they chip out.
I think this guy figured it out, I wonder if he was right about it being a MK2?
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: smutts on October 29, 2013, 03:18:20 pm
Mk2 GTD with SB engine.
now 230K miles, so the new seal hasn't blown.........yet.
One thing that might have helped it to go, the night before, Plymouth disappeared beneath a total deluge. Deluge is the default weather for Plymouth. So a Plymouth deluge has Noah building boats. Lots of driving through miles of 18" water, sewage, s, h, one, tee, and rags and debris. So can that help dislodge a seal?
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: fatmobile on October 30, 2013, 12:25:48 am
 So have you drilled out the intake restrictors?
 Is oil coming out the dipstick?
 I don't see how water from outside the engine could cause it. Doesn't mean it can't happen.
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: smutts on November 03, 2013, 10:36:04 am
No problem with blowby yet. Engine doesn't leak a drop, and only burns about a litre in 5000 miles of 80 mph plus commute. (Gentle warm up first.) But so far so good. Just curious, which or what are these intake restrictors? Sounds like something for an old Yamaha RD350 Elsie, not an old Golf. ;D
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: rs899 on November 05, 2013, 05:33:10 am
Quote
So have you drilled out the intake restrictors?

Please tell us what this means....
Title: Re: Oh Joy! The intermediate shaft seal has fallen out.
Post by: vanbcguy on November 05, 2013, 02:07:02 pm
Quote
So have you drilled out the intake restrictors?

Please tell us what this means....

The NA engines had a restrictor on the CCV hose from the valve cover to the intake.  They were probably originally intended to help reduce the chances of runaway (engine running on its own oil sucked up the CCV hose).  The "better" fix for that problem is making sure the plastic splash shield is installed inside the valve cover and that the "hockey puck" oil separator on the valve cover is in good condition. 

Problem with the restrictor is that as the engine wears and blowby increases, it becomes too small to handle the volume of blowby gasses produced by the engine.  This means the block gets pressurized and then all kinds of weird things happen - seals blow out, dipstick jumps out of its tube, oil leaks everywhere, etc.