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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: james277553 on December 01, 2012, 08:42:38 am
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Just had head gasket go on my Golf GTD after running 20psi for too long on standard gasket and bolts. oops.
When I took head off I noticed the pistons don't look in great shape. What do people think about the damage to the lower edge? there all like it a bit but middles are the worst. I also noticed I have valve marks on the pistons looks like they made contact at some point. The engine was running fine before head gasket blew, (I had exhaust gasses blowing though the coolant side), its always been a little lumpy on start-up but I put this down to running advanced timing.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/james277553/pistonstwoup.jpg)
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(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm99/james277553/20121201_155434.jpg)
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Get some new injectors so it doesn't get worse and run it.
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I the injectors were rebuilt and calibrated 25,000 miles ago (March 2009). so I would have thought there ok. I am now thinking it might be caused by me running the car on SVO (cooking oil) for a bit, I didn't like the way the car ran on the stuff so stopped it. Looks like it might have cause the damage. :(
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The SVO might have trashed your injectors. I'd get em checked.
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thats from bad spray pattern..
i run over 20psi, and likely more fuel, and my pistons are in fine shape..
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cheers for the info ppl. I'll get the injectors tested and make sure there ok.I also found out tonight after some measuring I was sold the wrong head gasket last time I put a new one in. when I got gasket from parts place they sent me a 3 holed gasket instead of 1 like the old one that came off. I sent it back and argued that it should be the same number of holes. the bloke told me that was the only one they list so can't be any other thicknesses so will be ok. this time I ordered gasket from the same place the bloke asks me which one I needed as there's three to choose from !! the lesson there is that I should have read more on this forum to find out the differences in gaskets and it's effects. anyway thanks again for the info this forum is a life saver at times.
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Neither of those is the right way to choose you HG, measure the stickup of all the pistons.
what kind of EGT's were you running? That too can cause erosion over time.
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like above you can measure piston protrusion for right h/g
being you have head off, you could consider new pistons right about now.
solving (and correcting)why you have problems like you have with the pistons would be better than just getting new pistons though
that 1 valve is gone, if that happened since you did head last then that valve needs to be replaced
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Yet, MORE reasons NOT to purchase stuff from Parts Place....yes?
Talk about a business nose-diving over the course of a decade or so. ::)
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Yet, MORE reasons NOT to purchase stuff from Parts Place....yes?
Talk about a business nose-diving over the course of a decade or so. ::)
??? OPs in the UK, I doubt he bought from Parts Place.
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I did exactly that to work out which gasket this time, I measured all the pistons protrusions and they stand between 0.65-0.80 above the block, so from what it says in my manual I need the one hole gasket.
I am seriously considering replacing the pistons while its in this state just really tight on funds at the mo, I will get them priced up and go from there. I've also never attempted this before so don't know how hard it is. I would also need to hone the bores as they look quite polished. This area of mechanics is unknown to me so could do with some pointers. e.g measuring and selecting which oversize pistons to go for. anyway i'll start pricing up and see what it adds up to.
As to the damage I think it must be from cooking oil, my EGT's get up to about 600oC at worst and only if i'm racing up a really steep hill. normally running 200oC on the motorway. is that too much? from what i've read its within the safe zone. I've got a massive intercooler to help keep themps down, it was removed from a subaru impreza, it is a bit ott but was a very good price and came with loads of alloy tubing.
The parts place where I get my parts is a small company in Devon uk. There normally pretty good I think what happened is they have changed computer systems and parts suppliers so have better info on correct parts. The reason I stick with them is my partners dad works there delivering parts so I get 50% off most parts service parts. This saves me a fortune on keeping my car running.
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The cylinders/ring can be fine even when the bores are smooth. My 1.6td bores are smooth & shiny and the compression was >420psi in all holes.
If the SVO was not de-watered, the injector pintles could have gotten corroded and sprayed poorly.
I would spend the funds on testing/repairing the injectors and maybe testing the IP. Re-ring/overbore is prolly not needed, unless you were detecting some evidence of wear before the HG blew.
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It never let me down but was breathing quite heavy from rocker cover in the last year. I'd done the valve stem seals so think its rings. It still doesn't seem to use much oil but not doing that many miles.
As the engine was running ok before gasket blew I am tempted to bolt it all back together and drive till it goes bang, I just haven't got the funds, we've just had a baby and Christmas is round the corner. in the mean time i'll source another engine or parts and rebuilt it ready to drop in, I'm only doing 4,500 miles a year so might last couple more years.
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There is barely anything missing from your pistons. Nothing was hurt too bad. Just replace the injectors or have new nozzles and recalibrated. It will be fine, there is nothing to be worried about.
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How many total miles on the rings/pistons?
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184,000 miles ;D
Never been touch from what I know of the Car.
Its decided, the full rebuild is going to wait till next year, i'm going to stick head back on and drive till it dies by then I hope to put some money aside. I also need a car on the road again as its my daily drive. Thanks for all the advice.
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Mine looked that bad 40,000 miles ago at 230,000???Mi. You'll be fine, but he rings are probably getting long in the tooth.
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That must be some brutal heat, as the SB and RA engines have a steel insert in the crown of the piston that's why the crown is two tone. If it's been veggied, the piston rings have probably got stuck with burnt glycerine too.
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well got engine all fired and all sounded sweet as a nut, was so happy that would be able to drive my golf again rather than my other halfs Ford focus( boring ::) ) I left it ticking over for few mins and then gave engine a few revs (1500 or so), next things I know I'm getting sprayed with oil from my turbo and discover it has managed to spring a major oil leak from its shaft seal and oil sprays out of outlet all over engine, After turning engine off I discover oil has poured from exhaust side and is pouring from intake side, not a pretty site.
It seemed fine when the head came off so don't know what changed. I turned the engine over a *** loads before firing it up to ensure oil would have got to turbo and round engine, but I'm assuming it must have still been dry in the turbo and killed the seal.
Not happy not cause I've got to strip turbo off with enigne in the car and would have been so much easier with head off.
Arghhh. :'(
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P.s Is there any possible way me doing something wrong with a head gasket change would cause turbo to fail like this, just being paranoid now as I don't want to change turbo and same thing happens again. I've checked all the oil lines and water lines to turbo and everything is as it should be. Racking my brain trying to think what the hell I've done wrong.
Time to pack up and sleep on it I think :'(
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Well I learn I big lesson there, I found the problem and was my own stupid fault. What a massive twat.
When engine was being cleaned I put a piece of rag in turbo oil outlet to stop crap getting in the hole and damaging turbo! ha ha.
Of course it turned black with oil and i didn't spot it before putting head back on.
Now i've caused a major cock up and only got my self to blame.
Well if you don't mind I'm just going to go and beat my self round the head with a massive spanner whilst swearing endlessly. :'( f***************************************************************************************************k
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ooooooooh, expensive mistake that is. Its a shame.
I never put rags in anything just for this reason.. I usually never forget anything such as this while working on an engine.. but its possible as you have just witnessed. Few specs of dirt would have done much less damage, if any.
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So it leaked due to oil backpressure for 15 minutes? take the rag out and give it a shot, it's not like there is a rubber seal to blow out of place.
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^^^Agree.^^^
Maybe you just made a mess. Clearly, oil was being fed to the bearing.
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yeah I'm normally the person who takes 3 times longer to do a job on car cause I'm always checking and double checking what I'm doing. I think I did one too many evenings working on the car.
the engine was only running for 5-10mins max. I've removed rag already so tomorrow I'll fire it up and see if it still leaks got to be worth a try. cheers for u tips
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I kind of did that once. I had the turbo all bolted on and I was about to fire it up when I realized that I wasn't positive I took the rag out of the turbo. What to do, what to do. Thankfully I pulled the turbo because I most definitely did forget the rag in there. No more rags in turbos for me, unless it's a long rag with a tail that can't be missed.
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I've removed rag already so tomorrow I'll fire it up and see if it still leaks got to be worth a try. cheers for u tips
Any luck?
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Well turbo was dead after my clever stunt! ( thought it might have be oil from before but after third spraying of oil I realised was still leaking)
I fired it back up after removing rag and it was still pouring from all places. I ended up having the fun job of removing turbo from manifold with engine in the car. Luckily the turbo hadn't been on long and I used copper grease on all the bolts when I fitted it, its was tricky getting the socket onto bolts but managed it in the end.
I took the turbo apart to see what the insides were like, It was sold to me as a low mileage turbo but from the look of the shaft it had done quite a bit of work. There was also a lot of burnt oil on the inside of heat shield, I assume this shouldn't have been there and suggested it was probably leaking before just not that bad.
I have since put a T2 turbo on that I had spare, It was unknown condition but seems to be running ok atm. I took the car for a spin today and it felt good, I am running turbo at standard 10psi as i've done head gasket and want to run it all in.
I didn't turn fuel down to start with! my god it was smoking like a train with too much fuel, oops. Was interesting to see how much higher than the norm the egts got, I wasn't even putting my foot down and got 400Oc. I've now tuned fuel down to match psi and its loads better. I Will take it for a good drive tomorrow see how it goes. Now I'm on 1 notch gasket it starts loads better no lumping on start up and sounds happier.
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The cylinders/ring can be fine even when the bores are smooth. My 1.6td bores are smooth & shiny and the compression was >420psi in all holes.
as long as the rings break in properly this is not even a problem, its when you remove pistons (again) that you need to break the smoothness/shine (however you do) then this becomes a concern.
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Mine looked that bad 40,000 miles ago at 230,000???Mi. You'll be fine, but he rings are probably getting long in the tooth.
my experience with a well maintained oil and air filter the rings at 200k are not even near 1/2 thru life span.