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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: scrounger on November 29, 2012, 07:16:14 pm

Title: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on November 29, 2012, 07:16:14 pm
It is an 86 Jetta 1.6 TD. 5 speed. It is in good shape and stock.
I have not put a boost gauge in it but am planning on doing it.

Have done a few searches but nothing comes up.
Thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: vanbcguy on November 29, 2012, 07:16:57 pm
Stock boost is 9 PSI.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on November 30, 2012, 02:30:53 pm
Thanks for the prompt response, 9.
Any thoughts on how much will it stand for a long time?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: CrazyAndy on November 30, 2012, 03:41:14 pm
Depends on what turbo.  K24?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on November 30, 2012, 04:02:42 pm
Oh sorry, I thought that I had mentioned, it is stock. I have had the car for 2 years and never checked the boost level or even looked at the turbo.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: CrazyAndy on November 30, 2012, 04:45:23 pm
If you can get a pic, I or somebody else could tell which turbo it was.  M

y money is on the K24, though.  On that turbo, you can make up to around 24 psi reliably, but expect your EGTs to rise in time with the boost pressure.

If it is a T3, however, you are better off.  EGTs are less since it has less hot side restrictions, and you can even swap a more efficient 80's Volvo T3 compressor housing and wheel so the boost comes in sooner.  Trev0rbr told me this, but I might have fudged the reason; but that's what I want to do, and I hope he chimes in on this thread.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: RabbitJockey on November 30, 2012, 07:21:59 pm
Stock boost is 9-12psi.  Reason for a compressor upgrade is more efficiency and more flow, I can't say whether it would spool faster or not
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 06:48:04 am
Thanks much for the info and edjumacation. I am going to get my boost gauge installed.
Would this small line from the manifold to the fuel injection pump be a good one to cut into?
(http://veloliner.com/vw/pressureline.JPG)
Thanks.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: theman53 on December 03, 2012, 06:49:12 am
That line works. You can T into it right by the fuel pump.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 04:09:54 pm
Thanks I Tee'd into that tube and fished in a tube into the dash area. I get 3 psi at 60 and can make it go to 9 with full throttle.
 
It is a bit sluggish IMO. I have a 85 Mercedes Benz 300 TD and it runs 5 psi at 60 and can get to 14. When you push it down it jumps right up in maybe a second or two. the vw has to let the RPM build.

Guess that is why many switch turbos on their vw's.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: RabbitJockey on December 03, 2012, 04:40:36 pm
Increasing your fueling will make it spool alot faster, combine that with a boost controller and I think you'll be surprised.  The mbc holds the wastegate shut longer instead of opening it progressively with boost
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 04:50:36 pm
Trev
Questions?
MBC, I made one on my Merc.
(http://www.veloliner.com/mb/finishedboostcontroller.JPG)

(http://www.veloliner.com/mb/manualboostcontroller.JPG)
It jumped my boost from 9 to 14. Nice feel.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2012, 04:51:22 pm
A better exhaust will make a nice improvement as well.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 04:57:47 pm
I have to re-engineer the brass T fitting to accept the metal lines. Anyone have pictures of their mbc.

My engine revs just like a gas one. My MB turns up like my tractor almost. It does put out the boost with a very quiet sound.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: RabbitJockey on December 03, 2012, 05:12:19 pm
Metal lines so u have a k24.  You can just cut the metal lines and slide rubber hose over them, put a zip tie around them to help keep things from popping apart.  K24s spool up pretty nice,  they're not an instant shot but once u put a mbc on and increase fuel it won't disappoint
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 05:14:47 pm
Cool I have a k24. How many PSI should I shoot for?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: RabbitJockey on December 03, 2012, 05:19:42 pm
15 is safe if u want more get an egt gauge, intercooler, and a bigger exhaust.  Or I'll end up breaking stuff or melting stuff eventually.
Title: increasing fueling?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 05:22:21 pm
Increasing fueling? Can I turn in the diaphragm adjuster on top of the IP?

About the only adjustment that I have made is turn down the idle. It would just take off in reverse. I have it bottomed out and I think it is still too fast. That is a different topic.

Thanks for the advice on max. I don't want to burn or melt anything.
Title: Re: increasing fueling?
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2012, 05:26:32 pm
About the only adjustment that I have made is turn down the idle. It would just take off in reverse. I have it bottomed out and I think it is still too fast. That is a different topic.

Are you sure you turned the idle screw and not the residual fuel screw?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 05:40:11 pm
I turned the screw that the linkage presses against when at idle. It had a 10 mm lock nut on it.  It is on the side of the IP that is toward the engine. Not sure but if on a gas engine it looked right.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2012, 05:48:28 pm
Does your pump have fast idle? Basically a rod up the back of the pump (closest to the engine block) that goes from the cold start lever to a lever on the back of the top of the pump.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 06:03:41 pm
Hi burn,
It has a fine wire on the engine side of the pump that runs to a yoke.
I usually just keep the "choke" lever pulled out all the time.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2012, 06:08:01 pm
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v603/burnyourmoney/?action=view&current=P1150246.jpg

See the metal rod that is almost vertical? Do you have that?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 06:31:45 pm
I just went out and started it. It seems to make not difference in idle speed with the start cable pulled out.
....
Just saw your post showing the idle speed up linkage. Mine doesn't have that. Just the cable at the bottom at an angle and the throttle at the top. No other arms or linkages.
thanks
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: burn_your_money on December 03, 2012, 06:40:00 pm
Alright, you adjusted the correct thing then.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 03, 2012, 06:47:08 pm
Thanks to you and others. The linkage just bottoms out and leaves clearance on the bolt adjuster. Every gas engine that I have worked on would idle so low that it would die if I set it so.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: smutts on December 06, 2012, 04:43:05 am
Your gauge will likely buzz like a mad hornet, easiest fix is stuffing cigarette filter wadding into the gauge tube at the end you tee it into that little boost pipe, keep stuffing until satisfied. ;D
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 06, 2012, 04:58:59 am
Hi Smutts
I don't get a twinkle of a vibration surprisingly.
I used 6 feet of vinyl tubing.The tubing is 1/8" heavy wall  and with only 9 psi I wouldn't think it to be flexible enough to dampen things out.

The gauge cost 15 the tubing was another $1.25 for the length, Oh and a couple for the tee. Adding a pack of ciggys might put my project over the top  :)
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: vanbcguy on December 06, 2012, 10:00:03 pm
It really depends if your gauge has a hard stop at zero or not... Mine is actually a vacuum / boost gauge meant for a gasser, so it doesn't have a stop at zero, and as a result it doesn't buzz even without a buffer.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: bbob203 on December 07, 2012, 05:09:12 am
Hi Smutts
I don't get a twinkle of a vibration surprisingly.
I used 6 feet of vinyl tubing.The tubing is 1/8" heavy wall  and with only 9 psi I wouldn't think it to be flexible enough to dampen things out.

The gauge cost 15 the tubing was another $1.25 for the length, Oh and a couple for the tee. Adding a pack of ciggys might put my project over the top  :)

Where did you get the cheap guage?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 07, 2012, 06:35:21 am
Hi
I got it on ebay. It looks new but it was advertised as vintage. The name on it (and the price) made me just have to have this one. I installed it on my 300D and thought that I would like to see it on my vw too. So I moved it. It is attached with industrial velcro I am probably going to need a second unit.
(http://veloliner.com/mb/boostgauge.JPG)
Title: Re: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: vanbcguy on December 07, 2012, 07:56:52 am
My gauge was about $15 at Princess Auto... Same type as the one above though a different make. Mine can light up in about 6 different colours should I ever want it to do such a thing.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: hillfolk'r on December 07, 2012, 07:55:20 pm
For your" lag" issue,thats fueling.
someone post the pump tuning link
you want to adjust your" starwheel",turn it clockwise.mark it and count your turns.start with one :)
note you will see more smoke on spoolup,or when you hit the throttle before the boost comes on.but it will spool faster.keep adjusting till ya like the haze and response.
every time i turned in the" smoke screw"it killed mileage.
you can also turn the diaphram/fuel pin for more fuel...mark this item so you can put it back,because you usually gotta remove it to adjust the starwheel.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 07, 2012, 08:20:04 pm
Hi Hill
That makes sense. Boost comes from heat and heat comes from combustion. I am getting over 50 mpg and sacrificing it for more power makes me wonder. I guess if I don't use the power It probably doesn't hurt.

I think after I saw the comment on needing more fueling after researching the comment here. I don't really like the idea of digging in the the IP. It has been running since new.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 09, 2012, 02:31:38 pm
Opening the top of the IP to make star wheel or boost pin adjustments will not screw anything up internally. There is no fuel up there or anything to affect the pump internals.

All you will do with that is change how boost affects when the fueling comes on (star-wheel down equals less spring pressure), and how much you limit the fueling on boost (position of the boost pins slope).
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: bbob203 on December 09, 2012, 02:40:48 pm
Opening the top of the IP to make star wheel or boost pin adjustments will not screw anything up internally. There is no fuel up there or anything to affect the pump internals.

All you will do with that is change how boost affects when the fueling comes on (star-wheel down equals less spring pressure), and how much you limit the fueling on boost (position of the boost pins slope).

Ok so turn starwheel down boost fueling sooner. steeper pin setting more fuel sooner?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 09, 2012, 02:47:28 pm
Ok so turn starwheel down boost fueling sooner. steeper pin setting more fuel sooner?

Yes, and Yes.

The star-wheel decreases (down) or increases (up) the amount of spring tension on the boost pin wanting to be pushed down by boost pressure.

The boost pins slope, is the same slope all the way around so it will still come on in the same linear manner as before.. but the slop is an off centered cone, thus allowing less fuel restriction and eventually more fuel at the end of the boost pin because it alows the limiter pin to stick out further.

Turning in the small screw on top of the lid (as we have discussed before, bbob) changes pre-boost fueling. By pushing the boost pin down before the boost does it, allows the limiter pin to stick out further and thus fuel more before boost picks up to push the diaphragm down.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: bbob203 on December 09, 2012, 02:52:33 pm
So theoretically i could have set so its a dog without boost but if i go heavy on the pedal it quickly transforms into something more powerful?
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 09, 2012, 02:54:24 pm
The Bosch VE pump like the one that came on the Volkswagen 1.6 Turbo Diesel, is virtually infinitely adjustable.

I go balls to the walls on all my pumps, want less power? Give less pedal ;).
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on December 09, 2012, 05:23:49 pm
The Bosch VE pump like the one that came on the Volkswagen 1.6 Turbo Diesel, is virtually infinitely adjustable.

I go balls to the walls on all my pumps, want less power? Give less pedal ;).

never understood why you WOULDNT adjust your pump for max power? its not like it kills your mileage.. your right foot being at the floor \more often, from the increased power, is what kills the mileage..

less power/better economy = less pedal
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 09, 2012, 06:08:15 pm
I have swapped the radio to below the dash board. I want to make room in the space once occupied by the radio. It looks like I should have room for at least 3 gauges in the original space occupied by the radio.

Guess I should fill the hole in.

Previously I had removed  the center console,

To be honest the radio was aftermarket and had a lot of glare off the digital display. Having it down is much better for night driving.

It would be nice to have increased fueling on demand rather than just waiting for the turbo to build. I doubt if I would use it but who knows.

Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 09, 2012, 07:10:48 pm
It would be nice to have increased fueling on demand rather than just waiting for the turbo to build. I doubt if I would use it but who knows.

Adjust for it, you don't actually use any extra fueling unless you put your foot in to it more. This is why all these big power diesels still can maintain the same if not more mileage ;).
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 13, 2012, 10:35:53 am
I see so many extensive projects and I just try and keep my car together.

Here is my latest iteration of my dashboard modification that allows for mounting of my boost gauge and two other gauges that have not been purchased yet.

(http://veloliner.com/vw/vwdash2.JPG)

I have used a piece of vinyl flooring. They are kind of a dense closed cell foam. Some of the deluxe patterns are about 1/8" thick and easy to cut with a razer blade. I have used some vinyl from an eyeglass case and it works too but is not as structural. Many places will give you samples that are about 3x the size that you need to fit it in.  We installed some floor and this was a sample.

I think some 2" PVC pipe might be used cutting very thin wedges to angle the gauge. A bit of black paint.

I am going to make a mini console to box in the radio.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: justiz00 on December 13, 2012, 12:27:45 pm
Here is where I had my oil pressure, coolant temp and voltage gauges when the radio was in the glovebox. The dash had already been cut by the PO. They are now in a GTI console and an old 2-shaft radio back in the dash.

(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i100/justiz00/catfish/mods03-1.jpg)
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: RabbitJockey on December 13, 2012, 01:10:28 pm
they actually make a plate for that i have one in my mk1 jetta, except i put it where the ash tray/center air vents normally are.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 13, 2012, 03:01:21 pm
Hi again
 I seldom ever play the radio so I thought that mounting it lower was not going to affect much. I wanted my gauges somewhere near the line of sight. Obviously the dash cover in my car is bad and something should be done with it.

My marble dash insert is subject to paint but I kind of like it.
(http://veloliner.com/vw/vwdash3.JPG)

I made some tabs on the ends to hold it in place and  I want to make it easily removable as it is still in development. In order to minimize parallax, I glue gunned in the gauge along with a piece of two inch diameter plastic water pipe to angle it.  I didn't have a light for it so I took a white LED out of a small flashlight and soldered a 2k resistor in series with it.
 (http://veloliner.com/vw/vwdash3b.JPG)
Instead of fishing for a wire controlled by the lighting system I just tinned the leads and stuck them through the dashboard switch of the rear window defogger.  The light should turn on and off with the ignition It only draws about 7 milliamps.
Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on December 13, 2012, 04:14:50 pm
There is a light stuck in the back of the climate control that is dash light switch controlled. Just for future reference. lol. I'm sure the defrost circuit won't mind 7 milliamps considering the defroster is on its own 20a fuse. haha

Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 13, 2012, 06:04:21 pm
That would be a good location to hook it up. Once it got dark I realized that 7 ma was not going to make it bright enough. I started reducing the ballast resistance and got acceptable brightness once I got to 60 ma. My LED is quite generic so it might not hold up to long. Should probably science it out with a better LED.

I would like to get a set of VDO gauges so this might be temporary.

Title: Re: How much boost pressure should my 1.6 TD have?
Post by: scrounger on December 14, 2012, 01:59:51 pm
Here is another photo showing a closeup of the wedge I put in it.
(http://veloliner.com/vw/vwboostgaugeangle.JPG)
Also bought a set of VDO gauges on Ebay. Will be mounting them similarly.