VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
General Information => General => Topic started by: wdkingery on November 12, 2012, 09:58:16 am
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i think it mentions it in the owners manual (so i've heard anyway)
but i'd like to know, by volume or percent, how much gas are you adding?
as you know, i'm running a between 50 and 60% motor oil, with the remainder being diesel.
and i've been adding 1/2 a gallon of 93 octane on the fill up, and it seems to like it. this is roughly 5% of the fill up, maybe a little more.
i'm thinking of upping the percentage to about 10% total, or 20% of the motor oil i add (so 5 gallons motor oil, 1 gallon gasoline, remainder diesel)
thoughts?
how will i know when i've gone too far?
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It's no longer recommended to run ANY gasoline with your diesel. It used to be ok (Up to 10% I think) when the diesel had more lubrication in it. These days everyone should be adding some lube to their fuel.
Since you are running a crazy mixture of fuel, add as much gas as you want. Eventually it will lower the cetane so much that the car will just quit. The other risk is not enough lubrication to the pump and injectors.
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I would think that running motor oil as the main fuel, you are probably set on lubrication. It is not recommended at all to add any gasoline to diesel anymore because of the lack of lubrication in ULSD as it is.
How have you found it has been running on the WMO??
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I would think that running motor oil as the main fuel, you are probably set on lubrication.
I am willing to go on this same assumption, and begin to up the gasoline quantity.. that will drive my cost down even more, as gas in my area is considerably cheaper than diesel right now.
How have you found it has been running on the WMO??
oooh excellent question! the WMO has actually been very good.
I have had one major issue this whole time.. i actually started a thread about it. it seems the water (water is inevitable) mixes with the motor oil.. I always thought it would just sink to the bottomm but it appears it will mix with the WMO and make mud.. some kind of polymerized mud. this clogged my intake screen in tank, and caused it to run like crap. once i threw that screen away, we have been back in business.
I found that my cost per mile is so low, that instead of driving slowly and trying to get the best MPG possible, drive as FAST AS POSSIBLE! i'm only spending 4.3 cents per mile anyway! this lead to a different realization: if you run the car harder (coupled with a 1.41 injector pump timing,) it causes a much more complete burn, and you end up consuming about the same amount of fuel. and you smoke a lot less. i have reasoned this is because the injectors foul from stop and go and slow driving, and you tend to get the smokes..which gets about 40 mpg. well, on the 75+ MPH long stints with the skinny pedal floored, i still get upper 30's to 40 MPG anyway. so you spend less time in the car, and get the same output. and it likes it better.
the car has done really well on WMO.. better than i anticipated. a turbo would help a lot. i can see from the black smoke i pull away with that i could use more oxygen.
also i was unable to get my valves adjusted exactly correct, as i had a very limited amount of shims (basically all i had was the ones i scavenged from the junkyard.. and they are never the right ones.) so this could be limited air intake as well.
i had to pull the tank to get the screen out, and i found some shiny metals in the bottom of the tank. but the tank appeared to have never been down since 1985 so.. i don't know if i'm steadily wiping my IP out or not. we will see with time.
thanks for askin!
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Thank you for going in to so much detail! With both my brother and myself being in the mechanical trade we both have thousands of gallons of WMO available to us.. Most of which has sat a good long time. So your polymerized mud experience should be all at the bottom. From my readings however it doesnt seem to be the metal or particles in the engine oil that causes a problem, but the additives in it that were never meant to be burnt. Have you noticed any symptoms of lost compression? Also iirc you have been at this a long time.
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I would recommend using the lowest octane fuel available instead of the highest octane. Octane is pretty much the exact opposite of cetane so they counteract each other. The best thing to use to thin your fuel in my opinion is heptane, better known as Naptha or coleman fuel. Heptane has a very low octane rating but the problem is finding a cheap source. I have an old Mercedes manual that mentioned using up to 5% gas in diesel for colder climates. It also mentions using up to a liter of engine oil in the fuel to reduce black smoke under load.
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Yesterday I viewed a Youtube video about using a centrifuge to clean oil. I was skeptical before watching, however I was amazed at how clean the oil looked after the process. It was mentioned that it cleans down to 1/2 micron, which is pretty damn small, and it saves a bunch of other messy steps to get clean oil. For as much as it's costing me to get this engine in my Caddy, I'll be doing that process for cleaning any of the used oils, if I'm inclined to go that route.
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Was it pabiodieselsupply? If not, I suggest checking them out. They supply an extremely affordable full kit that has EVERYTHING.
It is not the "dirtiness" of motor oil that is necessarily the problem with running it.. it is the additives that are in motor oil for motor oil, that weren't meant to be burnt.
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The compression.
I had just re-ringed this spring, and quite honestly I don't think the rings finally settled until this high speed driving I've been doing. I have a prothe compression tester, and it ain't worth a damn. But it said I was in the 150's before the ring job, and 300 psi after :-( but I only tested once, and it was shortly after the rebuild. So maybe it went.. Up. It does seem to cold start better; in fact, we got a 29f the other night here in Virginia, and it fired up quickly. The wmo does make a cold start considerably tougher. And if it does fire and you don't rev it, it might cut off on you. During this time injector coking is prevalent. So it's best to get up to rpm straight away. I actually start it and go straight to 3k rpm when it's real cold. I know it seems mean to the motor.
The centrifuge.
I did want to get a centrifuge. I even got a power steering pump from the bone yard, and even got a washing machine motor out of the trailer behind home Depot (where they store all the used appliances.. They rarely lock it.. Just walk up in there and steal a motor!) but, the centrifuge is like $160, and a 1 micron bag filter shipped is $5. And it's like Jeremy said; it doesn't appear to be the ***tle that's in the oil, it's the additives and the water/goat vomit that is the problem. I propose you could probably just pour the oil in straight from the source and let the fuel filter on the car do the work.. Probably would work fine.
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-I propose you could probably just pour the oil in straight from the source and let the fuel filter on the car do the work.. Probably would work fine.
Never,never do that,centrifuge is must for wmo.
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I dont know the clearances of the internals of the pump.. But they seem to go hundreds of thousands of miles with just the 15 micron filter protecting them..
A fuel filter when you change your oil would probably be a good enough change interval.. And arent they like $8 a pop for a filter?? Stupid cheap.
I do like your way of the power steering pump and the washer motor... But that $700 kit includes that the centrifuge and every necessary fitting and hose to make it all ready to go.
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Yeah but the whole point of me driving this car, and further the whole point of the wmo is to save money. Then I need a $700 filter? So I am cutting every corner possible lol. The power steering pump and washer motor were free, and the centrifuge would have been $160 at pabiodiesel. So that's a large cut. I chose to cut it a whole lot more and just get a $5 bag filter (good to a micron!)
But if you youtube the ps pump/washer motor/centrifuge assembly its definitely possible.
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Oh yeah, its possible. but with all the screwing around the full kit seems tantalizing.
It is not a $700 filter, it is a $700 centrifuge kit. Put 55g of old oil in, walk away for 6 hours and when you come back you have oil that has been filtered to less than half a micron.
Now the filter bags work as well, how well? I have no idea. Do you have to clean them out?
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No when they start getting slow I throw them away considering they are five bucks a pop.
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I was starting a several (55 gal) drum stock pile when I came across evidence leading to the extreme loss of compression due to running on WMO. It seems the additives in motor oil will in fact coke the rings and piston tops making for hot spots and loss of compression.
I have since reconsidered running WMO.. and it sucks because I have huge supply
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Oh wow. I am unaware of these hot spots. Coking injectors and rings.. Seems probable. I just put in new rings, so if mine become coked then it's the wmo at fault. If the tops of the pistons coke up well.. I can use all the extra compression I can get. :-)
But what do the hot spots do? How does this work against you? Please go on.
Maybe mtrans will light up and say it's not true ;-)
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Why not mist some water into the intake to help clean out the combustion chamber as you drive?
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Why not mist some water into the intake to help clean out the combustion chamber as you drive?
where do i pick up the heat necessary to make steam? if i drip it into the intake, will the intake be hot enough to vaporize the water?
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The steam will come once the water is in the combustion chamber. In the intake tract it will be a mist. There are quite a few threads about it on this forum, usually pertaining to turbos though.
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Genius Tyler.. An old Carb trick i once learned! I see no reason why it wouldnt do the same job here.
You gotta remember it will be flash boiled as soon as it hits the intake runner and valve head.. They both have to sit way over 100c.. Not to mention the sevral hundred dehree cyl temps eh.
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any WASTE fuel is bad for our engines...
WVO builds coke, because it was never meant to be burnt..
WMO, same deal, crap in it that aint supposed to burn..
idk if water injection will do squat against coke...
coke is basically plastic built up under the compression rings..
me personally, i dont mind buying diesel..
our cars already get ~50mpg.. fuel is cheap, even when its 2x more than gasoline..
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any WASTE fuel is bad for our engines...
WVO builds coke, because it was never meant to be burnt..
WMO, same deal, crap in it that aint supposed to burn..
idk if water injection will do squat against coke...
coke is basically plastic built up under the compression rings..
me personally, i dont mind buying diesel..
our cars already get ~50mpg.. fuel is cheap, even when its 2x more than gasoline..
yep. the original reason I bought a diesel vw was to run on waste fuel then I realized its not so worth it. to me its just good to know in case of an emergency. ie what just happened on the east coast I can fuel my vehicle on other things.
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I wouldn't say diesel is cheap though. Cheap would be >$2.00 a gallon what it should be.
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I wouldn't say diesel is cheap though. Cheap would be >$2.00 a gallon what it should be.
when you drive a VW, diesel is cheap, because that $4 gallon just got you 50 miles..
where as the same $4 gallon gets you about 9-12 miles in a diesel pickup..
or you could be like Catlin, and have that gallon of diesel get you 1.7 miles... LOL..
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I am still going to try and pursue free fuel. When my car was N/A I ran a ton of WMO just right in to my fuel tank, engine ran great on it. But now that its TDI, and a $$ Rover pump.. I gotta make sure first lol.
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...where as the same $4 gallon gets you about 9-12 miles in a diesel pickup..
or you could be like Catlin, and have that gallon of diesel get you 1.7 miles... LOL..
Ehhhh... My 3 speed 4x4 7500 LB beast does better than that no matter how I drive.
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...where as the same $4 gallon gets you about 9-12 miles in a diesel pickup..
or you could be like Catlin, and have that gallon of diesel get you 1.7 miles... LOL..
Ehhhh... My 3 speed 4x4 7500 LB beast does better than that no matter how I drive.
well, most people dont know how to drive a diesel and get good economy..
most people i know with diesel pickups, dont get more than 15mpg..
20mpg is almost unheard of anymore.. not saying it doesnt happen, but most people just cant do it..
usually when someone says they get 20mpg out of their diesel, i call BS..
because they have lift, big wide tires, and lots of crap in the bed..
i was talking about the MAJORITY of diesel pickup owners, who are complete idiots, and get terrible mileage with their EFFICIENT DIESEL..