VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: vwroadkill on November 10, 2012, 05:32:57 am
-
here we go.. again I am new to diesels. I recently set my timing. ambient temps those days was in the mid 90's, now as the weather has the temp dropping in my area to the low 30's at night, I am having a difficult time starting and stay running . unless I pull cold start out wait for glow plug light to go out, attempt to start. it catches and dies. do this two or three time and then maybe. at the fifth attempt it will catch and run. but I cant figure why.. do I need to reset timing. plug in engine warmer.. is there some vodoo I am missing.. chicken bones .. maybe slaughter the neighbors cat to pay homage{ will do that anyways} lol.. thoughts ideas..
Dan
-
Cover the basics:
Clean fuel filter
No air bubbles in the lines (use clear line in/out)
Fast cranking (good starter & bushing, battery, heavy cables)
~48A draw on glowplugs (indicates all good)
>300psi on all cylinders
-
thanks the basics are covered.. Iam just skeptical that I timed the engine for one temperature. and will have to time it for another.. cause it wont start like it did before..
Dan
-
Any white/grey smoke?
Colder ambient temps can exacerbate tuning issues; an engine tuned for easy starting in the cold should not need re-tuning for warmer seasons.
There are folks who assert that older (non-rebuilt) engines can benefit from additional advance.
I time "by ear", turning the IP to the cusp of increased clatter (@idle, engine warm), then back-off a hair.
-
white smoke.yes..it does this ALOT. Does this mean I have it to fat.. heavy fuel.. should I lean it out... most of my experience is on aircraft engines, jets mostly.. so I am getting it just not like I want ..
I hear the clatter as it starts and then is smoothes out..
would I benefit from getting my injectors replaced... think vw installed these.. only 137k on the clock but the car was sitting before I bought it and I have driven it maybe one tankful at best.
pump is new
-
White smoke usually indicates retarded timing. Dark smoke usually means overfueling.
I distinctly hear clatter until the engine is up to temperature.
Injectors have to be pretty bad to significantly effect starting.
-
Part of the cold start process when very cold is to have the pedal floored. I use this, get it started, pull the cold start, and still feather the throttle for a while as it warms up. Same on both my cars.
-
most of my experience is on aircraft engines, jets mostly.. so I am getting it just not like I want ..
Do you happen to work for us airways? I notice you live near charlotte.
-
Part of the cold start process when very cold is to have the pedal floored. I use this, get it started, pull the cold start, and still feather the throttle for a while as it warms up. Same on both my cars.
THIS is a great tip. But i only find it neccesary down below 15 f. Sounds like you could advance your timing a hair and it would be good.
-
I don't understand this phrase:
I am having a difficult time starting and stay running . unless I pull cold start out wait for glow plug light to go out, attempt to start. it catches and dies.
It's not an unless. That is the procedure for starting in cold weather. If you do not pull the cold start and wait for the glow plug light to go out, it will be difficult to start.
-
On my mom's 84 Jetta I advance the timing for the winter. I like the quietness of the retarded timing but it just doesn't cut it in the winter.
-
ok.. lot of questions and input, I will answer.
the normal range of temps here in the southeast US get down to a bismal 20f at worst... so I didnt think I would have to worry about cold weather procedures. noted.. I will use the plug that is hanging off the back of the engine to warm it up. lol.
I do not work for USAIRWAY's. would like to. but I work for the AirForce and have for the last 28 years. Im a C-130 mech.
I will try the pedal floored method to start and use the cold start knob to keep it running method,
as well as add some advance to the IP.
thanks for the info..
I will post some pictures of the upgrades to my truck. new front sheetmetal. floor pans , wheels tires , interior coil overs.
Dan
-
I used the same method on my 86 TD with shot rings... Heater, floored, glow, crank and pull CS when the engine catches. The cranking would bog-down if the CS were pulled beforehand.
All my other 1.6 require the CS pulled to light-off quickly. I'm pretty sure they all have good compression.
-
I could be wrong about many things this included but I thought to start a cold engine regardless of ambient temps you first want to pull the cold start handle, burn the glow plugs until the indicator light goes out then start the engine. Drive normally for a few minutes and push the cold start lever back in as soon as the temps gauge begins to move off the resting position. I'm fortunate never to have to start in temps below the high 20's F so don't have any experience starting in truly cold weather.
-
I could be wrong about many things this included but I thought to start a cold engine regardless of ambient temps you first want to pull the cold start handle, burn the glow plugs until the indicator light goes out then start the engine. Drive normally for a few minutes and push the cold start lever back in as soon as the temps gauge begins to move off the resting position. I'm fortunate never to have to start in temps below the high 20's F so don't have any experience starting in truly cold weather.
Yeah you can pull it ahead of time but like Tyler said, if its very cold it will bog down. To be honest I didnt even run a cold start cable last winter and just spent a few more seconds feathering the throttle before running back in the house for 5 minutes...
-
Quite frankly, it's like you are "inventing" problems.
Make sure all 4 of the glow plugs are working properly. A diesel engine requires HEAT to combust it's fuel....simple as that. There are no spark plugs or magic fairies that provide ignition. So, the glow plugs provide the very important initial heat to begin combustion in these non-direct injected engines.
It is actually a good practice to cycle the glow plugs twice (or even more) in colder temps, especially if your engine is not well over 400 psi in compression. Personally, I prefer to remove the glow plug relay and run my plugs with a push-button switch.
And, as already noted: open that throttle to the max while turning over the engine when engine is cold.
-
yep I cycle mine several times if I'm not in a hurry or even if I am an extra 20 seconds everytime you start your car will save so much wear and tear on the engine. Wire the relay to an e 350 solemoid and run that off your battery. it get a lot more juice to your plugs. see www.vincewaldon.com click on the pimp your glowplugs link.
-
You shouldn't really need the block heater here in NC. We installed one in our TD when we did our rebuild in early 2011 and have never used it. Heck, we did the first start after our rebuild when it was in the 30's outside with no problems. Granted, with everything refreshed it helped a lot I'm sure, but the starter was worn for sure.
Temps aren't that cold here. Pulling the cold start cable before you turn on the car and waiting for the glows *should* be all you really need during the winter. Cycling the glows another time may also help...we were doing that before the rebuild. But still never needed a block heater. But I would check your timing for sure. It never hurts to verify that when you have running or starting problems.
-
again thank you for the input. I have fixed the problem.. two of the four glow plugs where shot.. have installed new ones, rechecked timing, set more advance in and I am rolling down the road... will be delivering it to the body shop tomorrow for some needed work.
thank you again...
Dan
-
Coldest I ever had to start one was -20c or -4f and done it a few times at -15c or 5f. First motor wouldn't handle it sure to bad compression ad took over half hour to get it going. The next motor was good and it was the one that started in -20c. Cycled the glow plugs a few times and pulle the cold start and turned the key. Took an extra crank or two but it fired up. White smoke like a mother out the exhaust. Ran inside and stood by the fire for 5-10 min then back out to the car to leave. Smoke was pretty much gone at that point. Tuned the pump by ear in warmer weather so I have no idea what it was set at.
-
You guys in the cold climates are really crazy! Coldest i`ve ever experienced is negative 5 and that was an industrial warehouse freezer, lol.
-
I dont like the cold... hate snow.. and feel bad for anybody stuck out in it..
.now I understand a little more about these engines.. really pretty easy to work on once you get a feel for this.
thanks again for the input..
Dan
-
You guys in the cold climates are really crazy! Coldest i`ve ever experienced is negative 5 and that was an industrial warehouse freezer, lol.
Lol my friend lived in upper Alberta for a while. He was starting in -35 Celsius. The odd night he'd leave it running though when it was forecast to be colder.
-
California sucks, I've never had a working cold start device!
Ehh I guess one of the pumps on my Caddy had a cable, but I never pulled it.
-
On my mom's 84 Jetta I advance the timing for the winter. I like the quietness of the retarded timing but it just doesn't cut it in the winter.
i love the diesel rattle, so i dont mind a little more clatter...
i also like the extra power 8)