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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Rising on November 02, 2012, 05:21:45 pm
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Okay so here's the question I'm having:
Stock times listed for a N/A diesel rabbit is 21.3 0-60 and 1/4 mile in 22.2 listed at: http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60_Quarter_Mile_Times/T_Z-60times.html
(Turbo Diesel is 17.9 and 21.0 respectfully)
Now that seems about right to me personally. I tested my rabbit before I swapped in this engine and I got right at around 21.00 0-60. Considering the 1979 rabbit listed on that site was a 1.5 diesel and considering my less than perfect driving skill and lame tires and not perfect drag strip i'd say that is a fair estimated 0-60.
So here's the thing. I swapped in a turbo diesel block which I am running N/A. Turbo Diesel injectors, fuel screw unadjusted and max throttle screw turned out a few turns... The car feels alot faster than my old n/a diesel. It seems to run much smoother and starts so much easier. All in all I love the way this thing feels. And I attributed the feeling of being faster to being just a butt dyno misconception thing. HOWEVER:
Today I went out and timed my car. I timed it multiple times and returned right at about a 16.00 0-60 every time. SO I'm curious how this is possible? What do your N/A Diesels run? Is this unreasonable? I'm going to go do some more tests tomorrow since my phone died halfway through my tests, but I want to know if a N/A rabbit could be that .... "Fast"? ;D
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My 1.5 N/A ran 17.5 seconds by the speedometer running 0-100km/h yesterday morning. Probably slower in the afternoon. That was loaded down with crap too. Empty, it feels almost as peppy as it did with the tired 1.6 gasser, which used to run around 13 seconds. More tests must be done.
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Out of a 1.5! Excellent! Stock fueling? Also I should've noted my rabbit was packed to the ceiling with junk... I'll empty it tomorrow
;D
Also the back is gutted...
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I'm scared to know how long mine would take, 20secs sounds about right though... 0-45 seems fast though, probably under 10secs.... Then another 10 to hit 60 ;D
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I agree the 0-45 is pretty good after that I think the weight of the car stops brig and factor and it's all wind resistance. Here's a move of my old automatic I forget what I did electing I think I didn't have the pedal jammed down the whole way so it shifted to third early
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys6jVBWt3ms&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Did vw change the fueling on na pumps on 1.6 engines between all the different mk1 and mk2 chasis?
I am now daily driving my 85 jetta and threw a non turbo setup on it and it has been a hell of a downgrade. I have to worry about merging now and 5th gear is terrible except cruising on flat ground.
Then I see factory non turbo cars say heavier than a rabbit with power steering and ac and it makes me wonder because my jetta has niether! Its a dog now, I keep trying to rev it out like the turbo was still in it but nothing happens :)
I can't wait to get my 79 rabbit going here in a couple weeks with a fresh turbo motor :)
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JSeely: go time yours! We need information!
Trevor: i used the youtube timeline and it seemed like yours took about 24 or 25 seconds to get to 60. Of course that wasn't full throttle and "missing" the shift to third. Seems about right.
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Damac: I'm unaware of any changes to fuelling but that would be interesting to find out. They certainly should have done something to account for the extra weight of a mk2.
I'm running a mk2 engine with a mk1 pump. But I also realized I don't have AC or power steering. So if we assume the worst about that time posted. That it was a 1.5 and AC and powersteering and a slush box. Then significantly faster times could be expected from a manual base model.
However that still doesn't explain why my old car was so much slower... unless it was just a bad motor with low compression from the start...
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OK, My car is really loving this cool, damp air. I emptied all the excess crap out of it, and managed 14 seconds off the line to 100km/h.
Not stock fueling. I'm running a dual outlet exhaust manifold, a cold air pipe into my airbox, 3/4 turn of the fuel screw, and an early GC 4-speed. I don't shift into 4th until over 100km/h. I think early rabbits are lighter than the westy's though. In any case, I'm really enjoying this low powered performance driving.
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OK, My car is really loving this cool, damp air. I emptied all the excess crap out of it, and managed 14 seconds off the line to 100km/h.
Not stock fueling. I'm running a dual outlet exhaust manifold, a cold air pipe into my airbox, 3/4 turn of the fuel screw, and an early GC 4-speed. I don't shift into 4th until over 100km/h. I think early rabbits are lighter than the westy's though. In any case, I'm really enjoying this low powered performance driving.
OMG...
you dont shift 4th gear till 60mph? (4450 rpm)
WOW.. you must really like revving the guts out of that poor thing...
you are aware that if you shifted 4th gear by ~30-40 mph, you would get MUCH better mileage..
the early GC was the lowest geared trans VW ever produced (020 type atleast)
why do you rev your engine that high? you arent driving a honda, you know?
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OK, My car is really loving this cool, damp air. I emptied all the excess crap out of it, and managed 14 seconds off the line to 100km/h.
Not stock fueling. I'm running a dual outlet exhaust manifold, a cold air pipe into my airbox, 3/4 turn of the fuel screw, and an early GC 4-speed. I don't shift into 4th until over 100km/h. I think early rabbits are lighter than the westy's though. In any case, I'm really enjoying this low powered performance driving.
OMG...
you dont shift 4th gear till 60mph? (4450 rpm)
WOW.. you must really like revving the guts out of that poor thing...
you are aware that if you shifted 4th gear by ~30-40 mph, you would get MUCH better mileage..
the early GC was the lowest geared trans VW ever produced (020 type atleast)
why do you rev your engine that high? you arent driving a honda, you know?
Lmao, what are you talking about!? These 1.6 engine make their 54bhp at 4800rpm! Hardly considered Honda revving lol.
4450rpm is not revving the guts out of it, come on K3v0 you should know better than most what these engines are capable of spinning. They will spin 5300 (wot in neutral) all day long, they were designed to.
That shift only drops you in to 4th at 3350, and you are almost too low at that point even to be back in the power. I am sorry, but without a turbo charger... these are diesel fueled gas engines.. they like to spin and have ZERO balls down low.
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OK, My car is really loving this cool, damp air. I emptied all the excess crap out of it, and managed 14 seconds off the line to 100km/h.
Not stock fueling. I'm running a dual outlet exhaust manifold, a cold air pipe into my airbox, 3/4 turn of the fuel screw, and an early GC 4-speed. I don't shift into 4th until over 100km/h. I think early rabbits are lighter than the westy's though. In any case, I'm really enjoying this low powered performance driving.
OMG...
you dont shift 4th gear till 60mph? (4450 rpm)
WOW.. you must really like revving the guts out of that poor thing...
you are aware that if you shifted 4th gear by ~30-40 mph, you would get MUCH better mileage..
the early GC was the lowest geared trans VW ever produced (020 type atleast)
why do you rev your engine that high? you arent driving a honda, you know?
Lmao, what are you talking about!? These 1.6 engine make their 54bhp at 4800rpm! Hardly considered Honda revving lol.
4450rpm is not revving the guts out of it, come on K3v0 you should know better than most what these engines are capable of spinning. They will spin 5300 (wot in neutral) all day long, they were designed to.
That shift only drops you in to 4th at 3350, and you are almost too low at that point even to be back in the power. I am sorry, but without a turbo charger... these are diesel fueled gas engines.. they like to spin and have ZERO balls down low.
dude, there is NO REASON to rev a n/a diesel that high.. modified or not...
they just make more noise, as you rev them higher...
im not saying the engine wont take the abuse, cause they will..
but economy will be better, shifting at a lower RPM..
there isnt any power to be had up that high anyways..
sure, max POWER is at 4800, but max torque isnt...
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Max torque is 2000rpms.. Absolutely no balls at 2000rpms.. I can damn well gurantee that.
Max seat of the pants feeling of power will be directly in the middle of those two spots.. Do the math where does that put you?? 3400. Where does shifting the GC at 4500 put you for 4th gear?? 3360, BAM.. Right dead center of the power.
So yea there is a reason to rev them that high.. To grab the next gear above the "Dog Zone" of the rpm range.
Who shifts that high for economy?? Lol
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U feeling ok
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This is the only forum I know of that someone would bring economy into a discussion of best shift points for 0-60. Lol. I can honestly say that's a first. :D
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Its why we all drive diesels isn't it?! lol
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This is the only forum I know of that someone would bring economy into a discussion of best shift points for 0-60. Lol. I can honestly say that's a first. :D
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if were talking 0-60 times, there should be no discussion if you arent running a turbo..
the 0-60 time is the exact same on every single n/a out there..... SLOW!
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Haha fine then. Open it up to all cars! Turbo or non. List your cars info and time. Fastest idi I've seen on youtube was in the 7-8 second range. What are some of the guys on this forum running?
But I think its still interesting to see what n/a cars are running. I especially want to know mines so I can compare when I finally get my vnt on in a little while. (Just need to make a trip to the junkyard to try and find some cheap charge piping and maybe an intercooler.)
But I always find some kind of baseline for every car I own before I start modding.
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Haahaa wanna talk about a short gearbox? Try sootys
its a 91 na jetta,i" think" the trans code is awy maybe?
well whatever it is its short as hell.
i think its the same ratios as a rabbit gti box.
revs? I got alot of em.
try 4000 rpm at 65 indicated on my gps in 5th
i can cruise at 30mph on main street in 5th,and by the time im thru an intersection leaving a light im in 3rd by the time im thru
one day il get off my lazy butt,and hook in my gtech and see what itll do.
id estimate it would haveta be an easy 16 sec 0-60.those close gears keep the hamster wheel goin at full tilt!
i still get over 40mpg too,i dont really check it but when its over 40 and it looks this good,who cares?
Thanks for this theman53!!
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/21795_10151279378471963_918640664_n.jpg)
Sooty the barhopper.
(http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii563/hillfolkvwdude/Unknown.jpg)
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Yeah. I'm going to clarify that isn't how I always drive: just when I'm pushing for 0-62 times. And this engine seems to pull well right to over 4500, and drops off quickly above 4700rpm. Yes, I know it's a diesel, but it does rev like a push-rod gasser.
I think the point of this thread was to find out what an N/A would do. It wasn't meant to be impressive times, just interesting for anyone who drives an N/A car.
And ROR, there is a point in revving these engines that high: because you rev to where the torque curve falls off, not where it peaks. And I know the GC is the worst transmission ever made in the history of the world. It's just what came attached to the engine, and it works fine as long as I don't want to go faster than 130km/h, which is well over any legal limit around here.
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And ROR, there is a point in revving these engines that high: because you rev to where the torque curve falls off, not where it peaks.
Yes.
So you hit the next gear in the torque again.
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well, even my old n/a, i wouldnt rev that high unless i was trying to make my passenger giggle..
and my old n/a was FAST.. it would go 100+mph on flat ground, GPS verified..
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3200-3500 to keep up with freeway traffic, I can't imagine shifting much lower.
Thinking back to my NA days, I'm pretty sure SOP was;
foot to the floor
clutch in
shift gear
clutch out
Never had any problem related to that.
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3200-3500 to keep up with freeway traffic, I can't imagine shifting much lower.
Thinking back to my NA days, I'm pretty sure SOP was;
foot to the floor
clutch in
shift gear
clutch out
Never had any problem related to that.
oh yea, for sure.. you dont ever take your foot off the go pedal when you drive an n/a, even when shifting..
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Flat foot shifting? Seriously? Won't that like instantly destroy my engine/transmission?
Guess I have a lot to learn about these little diesels. The only flatfoot shifting I've ever heard of is when you have a rev limiter cut spark at a lower rpm (ie your 4500 or wherever your gears usually drop back in) when your clutch is in. Makes some wicked sounds and flames out the exhaust on gassers...
Could something similar be done with our fuel shut off valve? Especially for those with the governor mod who could float valves shifting like that?
Back on topic: more times people!
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I love this thread. It makes me feel better about having an under-powered little smoke machine.
Flat foot shifting works if you haven't governor mod'd your pump, and you still have a functioning governor. If you've messed with the max fuel stop or the fuel screw, your governor is probably not going to work right either. I haven't driven it that way on mine, but I'm guessing it'll probably over-rev.
For now, I'll just drive the piss out of it, and if anything breaks, I'll fix or upgrade it.
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Yeah, the gov keeps you well below dangerous RPM for the engine, and you still don't make enough torque to hurt anything.
The faster you do it the less speed is lost, and every 0.5MPH matters.
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I love this thread. It makes me feel better about having an under-powered little smoke machine...
For now, I'll just drive the piss out of it, and if anything breaks, I'll fix or upgrade it.
Honestly my old car was much much faster. But there is something about driving this little beast that is so satisfying. Even though my mind knows 15 second 0-60 is miserable, it is so satisfying to see the change the little things add up to a couple seconds of performance change.
Someone has said before: Its more fun to drive a slow car fast then to drive a fast car slow.
That being said I can't wait to add some boost and run it again haha.
745: sounds reasonable ... I'd try it but with my throttle screw being out I know I can rev higher... I wish I had a tach : (
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Yeah, the gov keeps you well below dangerous RPM for the engine, and you still don't make enough torque to hurt anything.
The faster you do it the less speed is lost, and every 0.5MPH matters.
i used to shift it fast enough that it barely came up in RPM..
either that, or it was already on the governor.. lol
and they dont have enough power to worry about burning a clutch disk.. lol.
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While shifting quickly might help your 0-60 time, it's he11 for the synchros in your transmission.
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You are probably right, but the transmission/clutch is the only part that I never broke.
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Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
Shifting fast is for losers lol. Its probably the reason so many of your trannies fail kev lol.
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Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
Shifting fast is for losers lol. Its probably the reason so many of your trannies fail kev lol.
i dont shift like that in my TD..
i can be nice to a trans, and the bearings still die..
when decelerating, the gears change directions of thrust..
when accelerating, you use the bigger set of bearings to take care of the thrust..
and when you decelerate, the other set (smaller ones) takes the thrust..
and i down shift ALOT to slow down.. thats my main means of slowing down.
my trannies all still work fine.. all 5 gears work. reverse is trashed in a couple of them, but ALL of them are extremely noisy going down the road, and at idle..
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Oops my recent trip made me realize i was off a smidgen.
65 mph verified gps is actually 43-4400.shoot,mines so close ratio that id have to skip gears if i rev out say 2nd it feels faster if id skip to 4th to get back in the tq nicely.it doesnt really hurt my mileage,i wasnt counting and it was def over 40.so i let it sing on the hiway at 65 for a couple hours no biggie wear earplugs!