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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: stewardc on October 15, 2012, 04:51:32 am

Title: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: stewardc on October 15, 2012, 04:51:32 am
Is there a "proper" way to route the small return lines that go from injector to injector. I'm replacing mine with silicon lines and want to do it right.
Any pics would be nice.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: stewardc on October 15, 2012, 08:31:40 am
Anyone ???? ???
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 15, 2012, 09:11:12 am
Daisy chain them (in series) with a cap on the last injector.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: stewardc on October 15, 2012, 11:57:30 am
Daisy chain them (in series) with a cap on the last injector.

Oh. I know that, but how do you guys route them through all the junk that's there.....or does it even matter ?
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on October 15, 2012, 02:39:36 pm
I make them all long enough to cut down on the side of the road at least once.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 15, 2012, 04:21:18 pm
...and if you want to make sure there's the least possibility of leakage, I suggest twin return lines; i.e. from both ends of the injector bank.
Then just fit a Y-connector between them and the return port on the pump.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: stewardc on October 15, 2012, 05:43:46 pm
...and if you want to make sure there's the least possibility of leakage, I suggest twin return lines; i.e. from both ends of the injector bank.
Then just fit a Y-connector between them and the return port on the pump.

Wow, I never thought of that. I think I'll try it.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: 8v-of-fury on October 15, 2012, 07:29:41 pm
I too like that idea!
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: 745 turbogreasel on October 15, 2012, 07:40:50 pm
I like to crimp my return line and launch the little  cap into orbit though...
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: ORCoaster on October 15, 2012, 08:12:23 pm
I lost several caps to an overpressure issue when I went to WVO.  Seems I had the valves wired backwards and when I expected the fuel to flow during purge switch location I would send my plug a flying someplace.  Oil would cascade all over the front of the engine and I slightly tempted to use a bad word.  Once I put a meter on the setup it was a simple switch of colored plugs to the stock black end and problem solved. 

I like the duel sided idea as well.  Why not?  Might be useful to have an alternative back route.  Escape route?

DAS
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: Gizmoman on October 16, 2012, 05:00:11 am
...and if you want to make sure there's the least possibility of leakage, I suggest twin return lines; i.e. from both ends of the injector bank.
Then just fit a Y-connector between them and the return port on the pump.

Sounds pretty slick - any photos of that set-up? Maybe it's too early in the morning, but I'm not getting a clear picture of how that works ;D
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 16, 2012, 06:59:23 am
No picture, but the idea is that you have a return hose (back to pump) from both ends of the injector bank.

From injectors #1 and #4 make the "outmost" line go back to the pump, instead of just the one from the injector #4.
Y-connect them together for the return to the pump housing, or fit a twin banjo.

It works.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TylerDurden on October 16, 2012, 07:11:02 am
Not sure how any additional lines/fittings could reduce the potential for leaking.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 16, 2012, 07:16:41 am
By easing off the pressure that builds onto the plugged return connector on the #1 injector, that's how.

This setup will reduce the pressure peaks on the injectors' return line system, especially at and near the #1 injector.
Up until, of course, your total fuel return flow exceeds the capacity of the lines altogether. Which can happen on a high-performance pump.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: 92EcoDiesel Jetta on October 16, 2012, 07:56:16 am
By easing off the pressure that builds onto the plugged return connector on the #1 injector, that's how.

This setup will reduce the pressure peaks on the injectors' return line system, especially at and near the #1 injector.
Up until, of course, your total fuel return flow exceeds the capacity of the lines altogether. Which can happen on a high-performance pump.

Do these pressure peaks on the injector return lines do any harm or affect running of the engine? It's just excess fuel that is not injected which has to go back to the tank. Why add another connection which is one more potential leak point? Another banjo? Are you kidding?
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 16, 2012, 09:31:40 am
Less pressure means less cause for leaks.

I am not kidding. Think about how the system works and you'll see what I mean.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: CarlosA on October 16, 2012, 10:21:27 am
I think it also gives the system an opportunity to bleed off some of the air that never leaves - i`ve been running clearish lines with the return route and have no bubbles in return lines for the first time.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: ORCoaster on October 16, 2012, 01:41:00 pm
Would less pressure to the #1 or balanced pressure on both sides, 1 and 4 make it clack less?
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: fatmobile on October 16, 2012, 09:18:21 pm
 I've been putting a "T" between the end lines.
 Mostly because I don't like,... or often can't find one of the end plugs.

 It allows new options for routing to the return banjo without hitting the accelerator stuff.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 17, 2012, 04:16:37 am
I don't know about this affecting the clacking noise, but trying this design can't hurt.

The comment about air escaping the return lines more easily is true.

About my comment on the extra banjo fitting: If you have a new banjo bolt and connectors, and new copper washers in there,
leaks will always happen in the rubber/silicone hoses before the banjo fittings. Those same banjos are used on EFI fuel
systems where regular fuel hoses simply burst clean in half by the pressure. So, adding a new banjo connector is not a risk by any means.

The problem with the stock arrangement is that the plugged #1 injector has to vent the overflow fuel through three other injectors (in all of which there is pressure) before it gets to the return line. #2 and #3 suffer from this same phenomenon, although less.

If you wanted to build a faultless, optimal system, you would have eight separate returns connecting straight to the fuel tank.
Obviously this would be stupid and complete overkill, but small improvements of the venting system will eliminate leaks, and help bleed
out the air much better.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: Gizmoman on October 17, 2012, 04:51:06 am
Great explanation - makes sense to me now - thanks much.
Do you have a source for the dual banjo?
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: TurboJ on October 17, 2012, 04:39:45 pm
Any hydraulics shop or a shop that carries automotive fuel system components.

Something like this should work:

http://www.blundellspeed.com/images/products/banjo_fitting_hose/double_banjo_fitting_hose.jpg
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: ORCoaster on October 17, 2012, 05:40:45 pm
That is a double for the larger return line to the tank is it not?  The dual banjo on the out bolt has two different sizes for return line to pump from injectors and out to fuel tank.  You just need a tee like mentioned earlier on the little hoses.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: libbydiesel on October 17, 2012, 06:47:20 pm
There is never any pressure at all in any of the injector jumper hoses unless there is a restriction in the return hose to the tank.  The flow is completely free between the two injector barbs of an injector and the amount of fuel that flows from the barbs is so little that the hose size is more than enough to flow it without building any pressure.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: mtrans on October 18, 2012, 10:21:15 am
x2
On my Fiat I have 50 ml of fuel for 30 minutes,I have separated line from OUT bolt and injectors for this check.
Title: Re: Fuel Line routing?
Post by: R.O.R-2.0 on October 18, 2012, 02:20:40 pm
...and if you want to make sure there's the least possibility of leakage, I suggest twin return lines; i.e. from both ends of the injector bank.
Then just fit a Y-connector between them and the return port on the pump.

Wow, I never thought of that. I think I'll try it.

i have a cap on injector 1, and injector 4

and the line between injectors 2 & 3, has a T in it, and then from there, to the inlet..

i have 3 injector jumper lines, and the middle line is split with a T in the middle.. makes it look much more clean.