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General Information => General => Topic started by: srgtlord on September 21, 2012, 08:23:09 am
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It has been a few thousand miles since I replaced my timing belt. I go to inspect the belt last night and to my horror its covered in oil and part of it is chewed up. Now lets backtrack, I replaced the cam seal, the intermediate shaft seal and upgraded the valve cover gasket to the single peice rubber with studs. Needless to say the valve cover still leaked. My question is what happened? Any ideas? For starters I tensioned the belt too tight.
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Did you put a dot of silicon in the corners of the VC gasket on the timing belt end?
I'd check the IM shaft bearings and seal first.
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I put a little bit more than a dot. I had the proper tension on the belt the first time, but I spent soo much time trying to time my darn pump plus I replaced the timing belt in below freezing weather I was about to push the car off a cliff. I think this is the final straw before I retire this POS. After I get paid Im putting my gasoholic cabriolet on the road with it's 2bbl holley carb and 3speed slushbox.
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I think you might have had it misaligned between the pulleys when you put it all back together and it snagged one of the covers when you started the engine.
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Mind you the belt was fine 3 months ago the first time i checked. . I replaced the belt in march
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Well I just pulled apart the timing cover and found oil caked on near the crankshaft and near the tensioner. The belt actually seems to be tensioned correctly and there is a light coat on the timing belt. I guess I made it worse in my head .
I noticed when I was turning the engine over by hand the timing belt was slightly riding side to side on the cam and injection pump. Maybe the pump shaft is slightly bent? The belt is lighty frayed in some areas and at one particular area there is a quarter of an inch wide chunk by about 2 inches long dangling from the belt.
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Good thing the Germans over-engineered just about everything on these engines
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Is it possible that I had the belt off centered on one of the pullies and over time it wore out because of the error? Im still curious as to what happened to the belt.
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Is it the outside edge that is chewed? Do you have the intermediate pulley that has got the raised edges.
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It is the flat version of the pulley
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Can we get pictures of how it is tracking on each pulley? It should make it easier to tell what is misaligned. My guess is on the pump bracket though as it is usually what the problem is.
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From looking at it its definitely the pump bracket that needs adjusrting because the belt is tracking to the edge of the injection pump pulley and by the time it gets to the intermediate shaft it is riding off a tadbit.
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That has happened to me but not as bad as your situation. There is a L shaped bracket that ties the pump mounting plate to the block and one of the bolt holes is a slot. You have to loosen the bolt in the slotted hole and pull the bracket to make the pump pulley parallel to the others. You can use a straight edge or just eyeball it then tighten it down and spin the crank over a few times to check if the belt walks over.
Easy as pie.
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Do you happen to know which hole in the bracket is slotted?
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I'd have to look. I can check tomorrow but I think you can spot it. It is a ~3/4" flat bar bent 90degs with 1" legs or so and is in front of the pump bolted to the pump bracket and the block. I'll get out of bed and look.......ok it is bolted to the AC bracket vertical hole downward and to the pump plate horizontal to the pass side. The vertical hole is a slot. And the legs have a gusset. It is just in front of the pump a bit low.
I should learn to post picks.
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Well this past tuesday i retired the red golf due to rust...lots of rust and a very scary steering issue. I might swap the diesel into the backup gasser mk2 im driving currently. Both cars are CE2.The only thing that is preventing me from doing this is the fact that nothing is wrong with the gasser right now, and with my new job I cant mess around like I have been for the past 4 years. The diesel has become a backburner project...
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So tonight I am finally going to have a chance to pull off the timing belt and take a look at what went wrong. What should I be looking for in the intermediate shaft area, play? Is it also possible I ruined my injection pump shaft bearing in the few thousand miles I drove the car?
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in might have a bit of in and out play but should have no side to side play. Its pretty easy to removed inless engine is in the the car then its a little tougher.
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Wow I really forked up.... The injection pump shaft bearing is now ruined I was able to rock the pulley from side to side. I was able to wiggle the intermediate shaft very slightly side to side. This goes to show that you can have all the right tools parts and manuals and still screw up.....
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Jesus.
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Because I was barely able to wiggle the intermediate bearing shaft as in less than the thickness of a fingernail, as in no visible movement would the intermediate bearings be ok? I do not want to pull out the shaft if I do not have to. I just finished reading a post about proper tension of the belt using the 45 degree twist method and apparently Im not the only one who has done this.
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Bearings are gone if you have any radial play.
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Craptastic. With the engine out how the heck to you remove and install the outer bearing?
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Craptastic. With the engine out how the heck to you remove and install the outer bearing?
Much easier than if it was in the car.
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What tools would I have to use? Where can I find a new outer bearing?
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The bearings (sold in pairs: inner/outer) are readily available.
IM shaft outer bearing is not too difficult:
- Remove the IM pulley & vacuum pump.
- Remove the IM shaft seal-carrier.
- Support the rear of the IM shaft (has the helical gear) through the vacuum pump hole, using your index finger, while sliding the shaft out about 2" and *gently* letting it rest on the bearings.
- Remove the shaft entirely, by holding the hub and drawing the shaft out. Avoid bashing the inner bearing with the tail/gear of the shaft. Threading the pulley-bolt back into the hub will give you more to hang onto, to keep the shaft level while removing it.
- Observe that the old bearing has a hole aligned to allow oil supply from a port in the boss.
- Put a rag, long screwdriver or wood dowel through the outer bearing to keep it from falling into the oil-pan, while you punch the bearing into the crankcase. I use the butt of a 3/8" extension as a punch (a narrow punch will only carve into the soft bearing).
- Pull the bearing out through the opening with narrow pliers; it will deform enough to easily pull out.
- Position the new bearing in the opening (it will likely have a chamfer to help hold it). Ensure the hole in the bearing is aligned with the oil-port in the opening.
- I use the seal-carrier as a press, turning the bolts 1/4 turn each at a time, to keep the retainer and bearing aligned to the bearing boss. Remove the retainer and add a large washer in the seal retainer's recess, then replace the retainer and press the bearing flush to the boss.
- Replace the IM shaft, using care to not bash the bearings in the process.
- The IM shaft should have about 1mm axial play and no radial play.
You might want to replace the seal too. I use a large bolt and washers as a press.
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I double checked the intermediate shaft for play and there was none.... and the injection pump seems to have a normal amount of play..... soooo I figured for ***s and giggles I would also attempt to move the pump bracket and install a new timing belt. After moving the bracket I noticed the belt began to track and ride off the back of the pulley instead of riding off the front. The never ending saga continues...
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Well I think I figured out my error for the belt tracking issue. It occurred when I assembled the pump to the block. I never checked to see if the pulleys were straight. So I performed the service bulliten pump task.
If you take the 2 bolts fastening the bracket behind the pump to the bracket on the pulley side of the pump you can perform the service bulletin task and over correct so the belt rides off the back of the pump. My solution, was to leave the 2 bolts on the left side of the bracket loosley threaded while performing the task of re-positioning the bracket. Now the Timing belt rides on the center of all the pulleys.
Plus tensioning the Belt to the VW spec of 13 helped too ;)
Now onto timing the pump , then its rust busting time
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I'll assume the belt was running off the outer edge originally.
This can cause the I-shaft to bang up against it's thrust surface
as the belt is dragged from the outside (coming off the pump)
to the inside (heading toward the crank)
until it breaks.
The I-shaft normally pushes outward as it works against the vacuum pump gear.
The belt constantly shoveing it back inward, only to have it shove itself back out against the "fragile" thrust surface.
You mentioned changing the I-shaft seal, you didn't mention changing the O-ring.
Sometimes it's so brittle and black it looks like metal.
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Well Im not going to lie, I havent checked the IM shaft bearings like I said I would. The O-ring and seal was replaced when I did the timing belt the first time a year ago. I needed to make sure the pump was not worn out from having the belt too tight. I still need to slap an oil gauge on the head to see if I did in fact Fu-bar something.