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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: Rising on September 16, 2012, 06:53:32 pm
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Okay I tried searching for this info but I didn't come up with anything.
I'm pulling the rabbits engine tomorrow/this week and I wanted some tips/advice.
I know the basics of "disconnect everything". And I have a copy of an mk2 Bentley manual.
But I was more curious about weather I should take the trans and engine out as one piece or just remove the engine? Out the bottom or out the top?
And would it make it easier to pull the head first since I'll probably be doing that once the engine is out?
And since this engine will be coming out and I have some opportunity are there any things I should do while its out? Maintenance or modifications?
Thanks!
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I believe this is a personal perference deal. I have never pulled an engine in a MK1, but in the MK2 I like pulling both at the same time. It doesn't matter either way for me, but I usally leave the head on. There are little spots to hook to for pulling the engine and I don't trust the old headbolts sticking out of the block as much as the bolted head.
On another forum they have a mk1 engine pull thread...
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/motori.htm
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I second that. One piece is much easier/faster, also use the hooks on the head to lift the entire assembly.
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Don't disconnect the tranny. I did that once, what a waste of time.
On a MK1 if you are able to lift the car high enough I would definitely drop the engine.
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take off tranny mount and front mount and pull it straight up. if you have a charged ac system carefully twist the lines and compressor into the battery tray.
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What the last 2 posts said....
mk1,get it high enuf,go out the bottom,as an assembly
on a mk2 thats what my dad did to ol sooty,removed the front rad support,moved the charged ac mess to the side,and up and out.as an assembly
itll take 15 mins to pull the trans while its in the air.better than 45 mins in the car.....
hey i also like to get some blown out outer cv joints and put em back and tighten the nut...i remember the european car article years ago.
basically: if you dont put some stubs back,no the wheel wont fall off or somethin like that,but give it 15-20k miles and you will get a rumbly bearing.
thats if you have to put the car back on the ground and move it.
if you can leave it in the air dont sweat it
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Same as last 2 posts. If you can lift it up high enough, out the bottom, throught the d/s wheel well if you have to. My jack stands dodn't go high enough, so I yanked the head.
I'd definitely recommend going out the top if you can rent/borrow a hoist, though. Stupid Advance gave me one box of the hoist ckd kit and I didn't realise it until later. >:(
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I have done my last.. 4 or 5? engine pulls using a hoist at the shop my brother works at.. mk1, mk2 and mk3's.. I am never using a cherry picker again!
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so did you get the engine out. was wondering.. I take them out the top, goes quicker. even with an engine hoist. I just remove all the bolts from the axles, shifter, exhaust. tape and label all that isnt obvious.
remove the hoses.. then hook up your chain.to the hoist, give it a small amount of slack...with tension on chain, engine having a slight upward tug. remove all engine mount bolts. and hoist away.
hope this helps, good luck
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Hey thanks everyone for the advice. I was planning to start this project a couple days ago but life got in the way as usual. : (
As it is I don't have anyway to get my hands on a hoist so I'm guessing its going to be going out the bottom. I wish I knew somebody nearby.. anyway it looks like at this rate it might be next week before I can start this build. Might have a little bit of time tomorrow to label and disconnect some things. But I think lll need an extra body around to drop the motor out.
I'm going to go pick up a new td block and head this weekend ;)
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If you plan on dropping it out the bottom then drive it up on ramps and get the extra lift you will need to clear the car later. I have heard and seen the engine on the ground and lift the car up and drag the engine out from under it. Once all the weight is on the ground that front end is really light in comparison.
I just did the transmission out of the car a couple of weeks ago and I remember the Bentley suggesting that both the engine and tranny come out as a unit if you had more than just the clutch work to do. If the car isn't A/C then you just have to worry about a few connections for the electric, fuel and water systems. Pretty simple actually. That is the reason I love that 81 Rabbit over any other high mileage over priced Hybrid.
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If the car isn't A/C then you just have to worry about a few connections for the electric, fuel and water systems. Pretty simple actually. That is the reason I love that 81 Rabbit over any other high mileage over price Hybrid.
So so true! Yep! No a/c here... which is a blessing and a curse. Virginia gets sticky and gross in the summers. Not actually that hot. Just humid and oppressive.
I have some electrical connections I need to sort out anyway. So this will be a good opportunity. And to go ahead and clean up the engine bay.
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Out the bottom is easy. If you don't get the car high enough you can tilt the engine back and still drag it out.
If you are going to be doing suspension work an easy out way is to unbolt the struts at the top, hang the calipers, unbolt the tie rod ends and remove the bolts on the lower control arms. Then everything drops as a unit.
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not in a mk1....
top vs bottom............ easy... hows the exhaust look? out bottom down pipe in way... top never is....
only mk1 i drop out bottom is autotragic.. rest from top...
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not in a mk1....
top vs bottom............ easy... hows the exhaust look? out bottom down pipe in way... top never is....
only mk1 i drop out bottom is autotragic.. rest from top...
I just had an idea about this... buy cheap engine hoist on Craigslist and then sell it afterwards? = 0 or very low dollar rental? Haha.
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not in a mk1....
top vs bottom............ easy... hows the exhaust look? out bottom down pipe in way... top never is....
only mk1 i drop out bottom is autotragic.. rest from top...
I just had an idea about this... buy cheap engine hoist on Craigslist and then sell it afterwards? = 0 or very low dollar rental? Haha.
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This. Or buy one and return it. lol
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This. Or buy one and return it. lol
Isn't this what HF is best used for? Seems the equipment is only a one user deal anyway.
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We bought a hoist from HF, and its actually a pretty good one. Pretty sturdy and folds up. Used it on our TDI. They have some surprisingly good quality stuff in there these days. Their tool carts are really really nice...better quality than the Craftsman one we have :o
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We bought a hoist from HF, and its actually a pretty good one. Pretty sturdy and folds up. Used it on our TDI. They have some surprisingly good quality stuff in there these days. Their tool carts are really really nice...better quality than the Craftsman one we have :o
It's the big stuff from HF that's passable. The SMALLER tools, however, don't hold up as good as Craftsman. CM seem to be the other way around than HF, and they have the SEARS guarantee if you buy them from there.
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:o This is what i used when i replaced my tranmission ::)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img254/8341/1001432kq.jpg)
GHETTO!
but for pulling the whole motor just remove the front end, raise the car then lower the engine onto a dolly with supports where needed. remove mounts and roll the motor right out. easy, fast and 100% free
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remove mounts and roll the motor right out. easy, fast and 100% free
Not so easy when you are working on an mk1.. lloll. If I had an mk2 or mk3 I'd remove my engine for fun on weekends its so damn easy. lol!
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I find HF is a mixed bag, most of my 1/2" non impact sockets were from there in '93, and have been used hand and impact pretty well daily since. Refurb Milwaukee cordless sawzall is nearly as old.I got 'impact sockets and broke the first 3 without removing a single bolt. Horizontal/vertical bandsaw couldnt cut its way out of a paper bag....
oh, and who needs a hoist?
http://www.youtube.com/embed/e5MZcxZdZdw?rel=0
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(http://images.orgill.com/200x200/6385959.jpg)
this and some chain attached to the head was what I used to put mine in, but it was an 86. Being MK1 you could set it on the ground and pick up the car and walk it back I would think. Once the engine is out the suspension is all the way up, so you wouldn't have to lift it far. Depends if you have a friend to help or if you are pretty strong and don't mind a sore back.
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(http://images.orgill.com/200x200/6385959.jpg)
this and some chain attached to the head was what I used to put mine in, but it was an 86. Being MK1 you could set it on the ground and pick up the car and walk it back I would think. Once the engine is out the suspension is all the way up, so you wouldn't have to lift it far. Depends if you have a friend to help or if you are pretty strong and don't mind a sore back.
Did you use it horizontally or vertically?
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remove mounts and roll the motor right out. easy, fast and 100% free
Not so easy when you are working on an mk1.. lloll. If I had an mk2 or mk3 I'd remove my engine for fun on weekends its so damn easy. lol!
What makes a MKI not so easy?
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remove mounts and roll the motor right out. easy, fast and 100% free
Not so easy when you are working on an mk1.. lloll. If I had an mk2 or mk3 I'd remove my engine for fun on weekends its so damn easy. lol!
What makes a MKI not so easy?
The front end does not come off, you cannot simply roll the engine out on a jack or dolly. It has to come out on a cherry picker, or dropped from under the car. Its not hard by any means, but not as easy as mk2 or mk3.
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remove mounts and roll the motor right out. easy, fast and 100% free
Not so easy when you are working on an mk1.. lloll. If I had an mk2 or mk3 I'd remove my engine for fun on weekends its so damn easy. lol!
What makes a MKI not so easy?
The front end does not come off, you cannot simply roll the engine out on a jack or dolly. It has to come out on a cherry picker, or dropped from under the car. Its not hard by any means, but not as easy as mk2 or mk3.
You mean the front subframe is not removable on a MKI?
I am stripping a 91 Ecodiesel parts car w 60k when it was wrecked right side (part of a 3 car package deal with a no rust 81 1.6 Caddy, other parts car is a 92 cabriolet).
Here's a pic of the eng/tran almost ready to come down. I supported the eng/tran, unbolted the front and rear sunframe and lowered the eng/tran to the ground. First time doing this it was fun, now I'll have lot's of low miles parts for my 92 Eco.
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120920_141434_zps5e0e270a.jpg)
Anyone interested in a 92 cabrio parts car good engine tranny missing rear seats and a few other parts?
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120831_111144-1.jpg)
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x480/Ecodiesel92/IMG_20120831_111232.jpg)
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(http://images.orgill.com/200x200/6385959.jpg)
this and some chain attached to the head was what I used to put mine in, but it was an 86. Being MK1 you could set it on the ground and pick up the car and walk it back I would think. Once the engine is out the suspension is all the way up, so you wouldn't have to lift it far. Depends if you have a friend to help or if you are pretty strong and don't mind a sore back.
Did you use it horizontally or vertically?
Horizontally with the chain hanging down.
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WOAH!!!
on a mk2, the engine out the bottom is WAY HARD.. there isnt a big enough hole..
its possble, but hard as hell.. out the top is way easier..
especially when you have an electric hoist in your shop!
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out the top is way easier.. especially when you have an electric hoist in your shop!
I have a cheap HF 1T electric winch, but I don't know if it needs to be on a beam that can move fore/aft or left/right. I'm also wondering if a "leveler" is required?
Plus: When removing out the top, how much stuff do most people remove from the MK2 engine or bay to do the job conveniently? (Starter, alt, shifter bits, radiator/fan, manifolds, etc?)
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i only have experience on mk2 shells thus far but will do my first mk1 within a couple weeks. on my jetta i used a harbor freight hoist out the top and it was pretty darn easy. i zip tied the axles right away so nothing would fall out and then also up and out of the way. also drained the oils.
i did have the alternator off for another reason which isn't a big deal, and i also took out the radiator which isn't a big deal just because i was afraid i would do something really dumb. i probably popped off the starter and mount while unbolting things as well because that is easy to.
i also used some foam anti slip pads from harbor freight around the engine to take away the hard edges from catching. then it just was a game of slowly pumping and positioning the angle with the tranny side pointing down until i could clear things enough to go for it. pretty smooth and this is with the turbo and all of that stuff on, and it went back in pretty easy to.
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On a MK2 I remove the rad, grill and rad support. Everything else stays in and I just lift the engine out. Similar for MK3 actually.
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Thanks folks!
If I may hijack this a bit further...
As easy-peasy as described. I already had the radiator & condenser out, so the rest was a treat.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-68iEJQammgQ/UGMbVCT51xI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/2eiNQLgk2ow/s800/IMG_9112_med.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NVaKBcFP0bQ/UGMbVDXCUyI/AAAAAAAAAvM/CO8pJcsTrUc/s800/IMG_9111_med.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6hm_SRNDxC4/UGMbVd9u4RI/AAAAAAAAAvU/KnAQWZcG64k/s800/IMG_9113_med.jpg)
Having the radiator & condenser out made the job super easy. The lift did not need to be very high. The HF hoist is adequate and the cheap leveler is dicey, but very helpful.
Hoses off
Cables off
Exhaust off
Intake duct off
PS pump & bracket off block (hoses still attached to pump)
Axles off (at the flanges)
Shift linkage disconnected at the link-rods
It took me about ten minutes to actually lift the engine out.
It took much longer to clean most of the crap off the block & tranny.
Now I can see some possible problems: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=32157.0
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I find HF is a mixed bag, most of my 1/2" non impact sockets were from there in '93, and have been used hand and impact pretty well daily since. Refurb Milwaukee cordless sawzall is nearly as old.I got 'impact sockets and broke the first 3 without removing a single bolt. Horizontal/vertical bandsaw couldnt cut its way out of a paper bag....
Yup. Most smaller tools that may be specialty but we will only use once usually come from HF. We also bought a bunch of wrenches, etc. to make emergency tool kits for each of our 3 cars. Socket sets are Kobalt, but I think most everything else is HF, even the mutli-meter. Just stuff to get us by on the side of the road really. Bigger stuff, we do some research on before buying it, but my hubby's work has a few of their tool carts in their shop and are really, really nice. He's contemplating selling the Craftsman one he has at home to snag one from HF. I didn't believe him about the cars until I saw it myself...dual ball bearing and really sturdy. I was impressed.
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you did it!!
very good!
mk2s are simple!
i just did a disk brake swap last night in about 2 hours..
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Maybe its just me but the worst thing to work on with these cars are the axles. I have air, special socket and jack it up so that you can turn the axle to get access to bolt you are working on. But they get stuck and you have to put car in gear for every bolt and then the flanges are so close to axles that once you start yanking the engine they can get tweaked every which way.
I am not that smart so I never thought of tricks with the suspension like I read this last week before doing my first mk1.
All that still applied but Im replacing everything so I just yanked the control arm bolts and slid them out of the way. I plan on replacing all the suspension and leaving them out to the side before hooking axles back up. Then I can attack each side calmly guiding the axles into the flanges and starting some bolts :)
Also chose to do the rabbit from underneath after reading around. I yanked the radiator quickly just in case as well as alternator because Im replacing things. Then I jacked engine up to get rear mount out, took whole front bracket off, then with side mounts bolts loose the engine will just drop as you lift the car. I layed engine down onto a big wardrobe box on concrete floor which made for easy sliding later.
I used the harbor freight hoist attached around each bumper mount and raised the car. No problem and it didn't have to go as high as I would have thought. Then I spun engine 90 degrees so it would fit inbetween my hoist and pulled it inbetween its legs which gave me enough room to lower car. Then just hooked onto engine to get off ground and could roll it away.
It will go even quicker next time I have to yank one from a jetta and put it into a truck in a few weeks.
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Maybe its just me but the worst thing to work on with these cars are the axles. I have air, special socket and jack it up so that you can turn the axle to get access to bolt you are working on.
I recently started holding the drive axles with a big vice-grip, while turning the inner CV capscrews - the vice-grip will stop against the motor/frame/control-arm/etc. and keep the axle from turning.
True that the flanges and inner CVs are close. I'm not thrilled about finding out how irritating it may be to re-install.
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Maybe its just me but the worst thing to work on with these cars are the axles. I have air, special socket and jack it up so that you can turn the axle to get access to bolt you are working on.
I recently started holding the drive axles with a big vice-grip, while turning the inner CV capscrews - the vice-grip will stop against the motor/frame/control-arm/etc. and keep the axle from turning.
True that the flanges and inner CVs are close. I'm not thrilled about finding out how irritating it may be to re-install.
Alternatives to vice grip to hold the axle are pipe wrench and chain wrench. Pipe wrench is quicker.
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Well I pulled the engine no problem. What a breeze. The new engine is in now but when I put the engine in I didn't have the drive shafts sitting up where they needed so now it is basically impossible to get them back up where they go. I may have to lift the engine again :'(
Also has anyone else run across this problem: after putting the engine/tyranny back in and hooking everything up my shift linkage seems way off. First is where third was and second where forth was and the other two seem inaccessible since I run into the seat .. I'm not sure if the engine and tyranny could be that far off or if the linkage somehow got tweaked...
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To get the transmission gears right you have to loosen that clamp on the front of the push arm that goes between the shifter itself and the first bunch of linkage at the back of the firewall. Then you have to put the shift lever to the 3-4 side and get about 17 mm between the tongue that hangs down under the shifter and the metal plate that is up there. Then tighten the clamp. Anytime you monkey with the position of the engine you need to reset this distance. At least the Bentley seems to think so.
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Heres the quickest way to remove an engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5MZcxZdZdw&feature=em-share_video_user
;D ;D ;D
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I took the MK1 engine and transmission out the top, just like on a MK2. I removed the radiator and condenser to make some room, the only real difference from the MK2 is the MK1 engine had to be tilted up a lot more on the right side to clear the motor mount on the passenger side. Once the engine was tilted enough I could push the transmission under left wheel well to get enough space to get past the right motor mount.