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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: shwak23 on June 27, 2012, 06:50:19 pm
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I am still trying to start my 1.6 Diesel. I have got it to cough and sputter but not start. When I push the go pedal to the floor it instantly stops sputtering and when I lift my foot off it goes back to sputtering. WTF Mate?
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Have you tried loosening the locknut, 13mm one on the fuel screw and giving the smaller one a 1/4 twist in? Almost sounds like it isn't catching the fuel curve at idle.
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Yeah, I'd say turn the fuel screw in a solid turn to start.
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Thank you
I will give that a try.
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I would go so far as to have it running and gradually run the max fuel screw in until the idle starts to rise. Take care during this process to not touch the stop solenoid with any tools as you can make a nasty short. Also be fully prepared to pull the wire off the solenoid in case it starts to rev uncontrollably. In other words, beforehand make sure the solenoid has the spade style connector and not just a loop fastened on with the solenoid nut. Depending on the history of the pump, you may need to remove the lock sleeve on the max fuel screw and turn it in further than the lock sleeve will let you. Once the idle starts to rise, you know you're in the ballpark for the max fuel.
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I tried turning it about 1.5 times. .5x at a time. It got closer to starting but moving the throttle seems to be cutting the fuel or something.
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Did this pump have the accelerator arms removed? There is a problem when that happens. But there is also a correction.
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I assume it did when the kid resealed it.
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Time to mark where it is at and adjust accordingly. Normally an index mark is on the top of the shaft some direction. Note that position or better yet photo it. Then remove the tension on the top spring and remove the 10 mm nut and lock washer. Raise the spring keeper off the shaft and set to the side. Without the tension of the springs you can feel the movement of the governor assembly. And maybe when the mechanism is pushing back on the springs of it. I turned the idle stop all the way in and rotated the arm until I could just feel tension starting on the governor. Then I looked where that index mark was at. I pulled up on the accelerator arm and released the shaft from the arm. Then I rotated the shaft one click counterclockwise from the initial index position. I lowered the arm and reassembled it.
There may be a better description here someplace from Libby but I have to find it. If I do then I will edit the post with that link. otherwise good luck. It may take two clicks but sounds like you are not positioned correctly at this point in time.
later, on to the archives. DAS
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(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-28_23-12-20_179.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-28_23-12-56_487.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-28_23-13-12_551.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-28_23-14-24_777.jpg)
So here are some photos I took. Both for my own reference and for yours. Where my knife is pointing there seems to be a faint line that I though may have to line up with the line on the arm shaft that I scratched to be more visible. But I assume it wont be that easy. Let me know if this changes your instructions or helps at all. Thanks!
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Well the pics have me wondering what the heck is with that accelerator arm. Why is it bent 90 degrees up in the air like that? Never saw that before. Could this have been running like that in the past?
That mark across the shaft in the middle of the nut is what I use to focus on when rotating the arm around it. The marks you scribed will help you orient the shaft to the arm.
And honestly is that pink paint? or just my monitor out of whack.
I grab the ends of the springs with a pair of vice grip needle nose pliers. Then I push back against the spring tension and slip the spring down and under the tab and release the tension that way.
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What you describe is how it will be with the max fuel screw out way too far still. Post a picture of it.
I would do just what ORCoaster described as a good starting place for the lever to shaft orientation. You may have to adjust that a spline or two as you get the max fuel and idle screws tuned to where they should be.
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It does look like your arm is bent, that needs to go down 90 degrees so that when your accelerator cable comes around it will be in line with the throw and the ip bracket.
Also did your fuel screw have a locknut on it before messing around with it? If so I would put it back to where it was, if not then I feel your pain because every pump I have come across with messed up settings, I never could tune "right"
Also every pump that I have with that governor arm has had the index marks like mine below. If somebody messed with the other stuff something may have changed but that spot always made sense on mine as far as throw of the lever and where the stoppers were.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kellyass/P6281447.jpg)
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(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-29_01-30-31_79.jpg)
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/shwak23/2012-06-29_01-30-51_283.jpg)
Here is a picture of the fuel screw. I removed the safety collar yesterday. Also here is a picture of my ballet slipper and celery motor. It was for my girlfriend but now sure doesn't want it so now I just don't care.
Now you can say you've seen a pink (ballet slipper) diesel.
Edit and as far as I know that throttle arm has been like that. Maybe it isn't stock but it still works. Well actually lol this entire thread is about how it doesn't work.
Sent from my DROID X2
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Well based on the colors of the motor I would say you have bigger problems than just sputtering. We will be sending black and silver paint out today.
Well it looks like you have the screw in a good amount and I think you took our advice on running it in a bit more. I would undo the fuel solenoind screw and jumper that wire to the post so that you could pull it in a hurry when you try and fire it up.
I would work on dropping that arm down 90 degrees as well. It may work but it is all wrong.
Pink and Celery? Was this car built in the 50's NO. Very ahh, unique you might say.
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You should have painted the accelerator lever and cable holder celery.
Fix the accel lever. You belt is not tracking very well. To fix it, loosen the bolts behind the pump and raise the bracket at the rear by the 4th pump bolt. You are missing the bracket that goes between the alt bracket and injection pump bracket.
How is the fuel flow in the lines?
Glow plugs are all working properly?
Compression is good?
Battery and starter are tip top and crank the car in a whirrr?
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Fuel good. Compression good. Glow Plugs all tested pre install this month. Starter and battery good. I have the bracket for the timing belt cover but this is just a preliminary start just for laughs.
After it starts I plan on neatening everything up.
I only wound it in 1.5 times from what it was set at. It is getting fuel but as soon as I pull the throttle it seems like fueling is.instantly cut until I let it go. It very nearly starts but I think it needs a nice rev to get it there.
I plan on redoing the timing one more time tonight just to be 200% sure it is perfect.
Sent from my DROID X2
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I have started several pumps without the accelerator lever even connected and the max fuel screw out so far the idle was no longer affected by it. They will start and run that way, but it takes a fair bit of cranking.
Did you confirm that the injection pump is not out 180° internally? You can do so by removing the metal lines and rotating the crank by hand while watching the delivery valve squirt when the cam lobes for #1 are up.
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How can the injection pump be 180 degrees out if it is a keyed pulley?
Sent from my DROID X2
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I will take a video when I get home of what happens when I crank it over.
Sent from my DROID X2
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The camplate inside the pump can be installed two ways. One of them results in correct timing. The other results in the timing being 180° out. The easy way to be sure is to check the squirt from the delivery valve.
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The camplate inside the pump can be installed two ways.
You really have to wonder why they didn't build that part of the pump to be put together one way and only one way. Like one side of that fork larger than the other or some kind of extra metal tab that would mate up to the end of the driving shaft.
Oh, that is right, WE are not supposed to be rebuilding them pumps. Bosch Boys only.
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Fixed. Hold for explanation and more.
Sent from my DROID X2
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Where is the suspense music on this forum? Should be playing now.
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You should have painted the accelerator lever and cable holder celery.
Fix the accel lever. You belt is not tracking very well. To fix it, loosen the bolts behind the pump and raise the bracket at the rear by the 4th pump bolt. You are missing the bracket that goes between the alt bracket and injection pump bracket.
The throttle lever was the issue. We ended up messing with that and turning the fuel back down to where it was originally.
Basically we ended up lining the top mark on the throttle shaft with the center line of the array of lines that is on the lever.
It's like those lines were put there for a reason...
Also my celery mistake was fixed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rxWDNwF0wA&feature=plcp
I tried but I can't for the life of me get this thing to embed. Which is annoying. But w.e. here it is.
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what the heck dude, i told ya to do that and posted a pic of my pump so you could see the index marks :)
if you had the lid off and no springs you can tell that there isn't enough throw with the stoppers set to go through the right range of motion with stock fuel settings so thats why you sometimes hear people mention marking that lever and how getting it a couple spots off can be the difference between starting or having the engine run away.
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what the heck dude, i told ya to do that and posted a pic of my pump so you could see the index marks :)
if you had the lid off and no springs you can tell that there isn't enough throw with the stoppers set to go through the right range of motion with stock fuel settings so thats why you sometimes hear people mention marking that lever and how getting it a couple spots off can be the difference between starting or having the engine run away.
Oh yah you were totally right and I used your pictures and the other two pumps I had laying around as a reference. It just took me some time to get to it. I was a little nervous about taking those springs off the throttle arm. The other style throttle arm is the only one I have taken apart and it is such a *** to get back together. This one was really easy though.
Sent from my DROID X2
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Good to have resolution. Now where was that picture of the cervasa? Drive responsibly now that you have the power. Great that all is well in VW land. Glad to have added to the discussion. Not sure I actually helped on this one.
later DAS
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Good to have resolution. Now where was that picture of the cervasa? Drive responsibly now that you have the power. Great that all is well in VW land. Glad to have added to the discussion. Not sure I actually helped on this one.
later DAS
I believe you were one of the first to suggest throttle arm. Def appreciate any help or advice whether needed or not.