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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Smokey Eddy on May 20, 2012, 05:55:38 pm
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020 transmission from what i think was a 1990 1.6td.
Went for a really long drive on a whim. 1,000km nonstop in 5th the whole time. When I turned the car back on to drive home it wouldn't shift into gears. I could rpm match all the gears and jam it into all gears but first gear and reverse. Grinds into reverse. Drives fine but its as if the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. So I pulled the cover off to take a look and everything look ed fine. I had a spare push rod bearing so I replaced it. I measured the rod which looks very worn. and its 344.4 mm long. Everything seemed to move just fine. I peered down the hole with a bright light and the plate looks centered.
I took off the fill plug and only if I stuck m y fingers way in there could I find gear oil. Should it be filled right up to that fill hole on the side?
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Also what weight oil should I use in there? I contact remember what I put in it before but I remember it was expensive and was like 45-75w or so
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It maybe the finger that pushes on the pushrod. It can have a crack in it and not get full power. See brokevw's site on that. Also in the 5th housing usually you have the car jacked up on the drivers side when you access it, so you will find no fluid coming out.
75w-90 GL-4 rated, usually GL-5 rated is too slippery, Red Line and Royal Purple do well same with the new dealer stuff but all are around 20.00 per quart here.
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The finger looked totally fine. Its the original one from what I can tell. Has a bit of wear on it but the replacement one I was given was really cheap feeling and thin. And was $35...
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But could you see those symptoms from having low gear oil?
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I just purchased a new push rod. Ill add some gear oil and see if either of those do anything. I really hope this clutch isn't pooped again! Its barely 15,000km old.
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Manual or self adjusting clutch cable? If it's auto replace it with a manual and if it's manual then adjust it
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I hear ya Tyler. As far as I can tell it travels all the way...(its auto)
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as far as i can tell, the clutch was not fully disengaging..
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as far as i can tell, the clutch was not fully disengaging..
So you reckon its gotta be that lever or?
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as far as i can tell, the clutch was not fully disengaging..
So you reckon its gotta be that lever or?
ive even seen the pressure plate be at fault..
your clutch finger is good? relay rod inside the trans is the right length?
how old is the clutch? whats the clutch cable like? manual/auto?
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The clutch was new in November and was barely driven during the winter.
Auto cable. Finger looks good. Rod is worn so I'm replacing it. Is there any way I can adjust an auto adjusting clutch cable?
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Is there any way I can adjust an auto adjusting clutch cable?
Disconnect cable at both ends Remove and throw it in the dustbin. Buy a manual cable. It really feels a lot better and I like the fact that the tranny has no pressure on the arm when the clutch is not depressed.
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Is there any way I can adjust an auto adjusting clutch cable?
Disconnect cable at both ends Remove and throw it in the dustbin. Buy a manual cable. It really feels a lot better and I like the fact that the tranny has no pressure on the arm when the clutch is not depressed.
FWIW, mk1 clutch cables work in mk2 cars.. i have an 84 rabbit cable in my 92 Jetta.. the auto cable SUCKS..
throw the auto cable away. it never FULLY releases pressure on the clutch or throw out bearing..
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Ok ill do that
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No, I don't think Mk I and Mk2 cables are the same length. I tried to swap a Mk1 cable that I had and it was too short or too long and I either was too lazy or stupid at the time to make it work . I had to buy an early mk 2 cable . Maybe ROR figured out a way to modify it?
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I believe the mk1 cables are 800mm long... with what I can't imagine to be more than a few mm of adjustment. It shouldn't matter if its too long right? It will still work the same... perhaps its time for Kevin(ROR) to chime in.
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MKI cable will fit on MK2 if you don't have the rubber piece on the trans. If you do it is too short...I got mine on but had 0 adjustment. Took the rubber off the trans support and had tons of adjustment.
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maybe its that i used an 84 cable.. ive found that the 84 rabbit (ONLY 84) shares alot of cables and things that interchange to the mk2.
maybe the 83 and older cables are slightly different? it worked fine, with all the correct hardware, on my Jetta..
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Mine was off of an 83 GTI???
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It sounds like they will all work. That rubber piece aforementioned I believe is specific to the auto adjusting cable.
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It sounds like they will all work. That rubber piece aforementioned I believe is specific to the auto adjusting cable.
theres a THICK rubber bushing for the cable, and a THIN bushing as well. i cant remember what combo i used.. but i can fully adjust my cable no problem..
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Well my auto cable has a thick one on it... maybe 3/4 of an inch? Ill go with no bushing and see what happens when I get the cable.
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Well my auto cable has a thick one on it... maybe 3/4 of an inch? Ill go with no bushing and see what happens when I get the cable.
well, if you have to get a cable, then get a mk2 cable and be done with it..
they fit RIGHT..
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I got an mk2 cable that is almost at the Max for length adjustment. Did not fix the problem. :(
I'm going to try replacing the pushrod and adding an arbitrary amount of gear oil to it. Basically ill add oil until it comes out of the fill hole. Plus maybe a cup or so since it will be tilted. I have a feeling its been leaking through the speedo cable hole. Despite my best efforts to seal it with new parts :-(
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Replaced the pushrod, bearing, cable and checked gear oil. Still almost impossible to shift gears...
I changed the gear oil relatively recently (within a year) and it's already brown... should I be looking at that as the potential problem? The fluid doesn't seem the least bit grainy or anything. but it's definitely dark. I think I'll swap it out as 75w-90 gl-5 gear oil is on special right now.
I'm open to ideas/suggestions though?
Upon close inspection, with the car NOT running it's still a little hard to go through the gears regardless of the clutch being engaged or disengaged. It always felt a little clunky but now something is definitely wrong.
It's something that happened at one time. not a gradual thing. All the linkage outside the tranny looks okay? how many moving parts are inside it?
should i ask brokeVW?
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One suggestion is that you NOT use GL-5 oil. You might try Pennzoil Synchomesh or Redline MTL Sounds like you were quite a bit underfilled. Level should be at fill hole (running out) plus some amout ( I forgot how much- look at Broke's site). I spent considerable time trying to fix my linkage, but it's still sloppy compared to the Mk1s I have. I think you have linkage issues.
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Have you ever replaced the shifter ball in the tunnel? If there is slop in the linkage it will shift hard. Also, on mine before the missing linkz shifter parts kit, the plastic white pieces were cracked and allowing for more travel yet not falling off.
Check out brokevw's site and see if you don't get some ideas. Is this the same trans that ate the speedo gear???
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^^ yeah, the stuff buried in the tunnel is pretty important. The bushing going out of the box really needs to be in good shape. I swear, they built the damn car around that box....
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DO NOT RUN GL5 OIL!!!
GL4 is the proper oil...
it wont shift right without the right GL4 oil..
or, if your trans is worn enough to shift with GL5, then GL4 will make it leaps and bounds better..
i thought the trans in my GTI worked good, till i changed the oil, put real GL4 in it, and its 100% better working/quieter..
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I haven't put any oil in it yet as it seemed pretty full. Upon removing the fill plug it came gushing out so I quickly put it back on. This is the transfer that ate the speedometers gear. Ive replaced both plastic capped arms on the shift linkage. I have a new ball I can put in.
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How much play do you have in the clutch cable right now? Do you have that bushing in the clutch pedal?
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I would wonder if the ate up gear, GL-5 oil, and the relay ball couldn't all be coming into one big problem for you.
I spent a ton of money on the AGS of mine broke vw did for me. It still didn't shift that good. Put the missing linkz kit on it, and it got better, but still was way off from what it should have been even at the 50% reduction. When I put the relay ball kit in and backed it to stock throw it was a shorter shift than before with the 50% reduction and tight as a new mustang for the first month or two.
On the other hand, the reason it was down long enough was because the pp diaphram spring was 1/4 broke off and not letting the clutch disengage. It was the 400+ dollar brand new clutchnet setup that was less than 35,000 miles old. They fixed it for me no charge, but I still had to do all the work and the car was down.
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I never put gl5 oil in it. The bottle says, meets gl4 and gl5 specifications ?
I asked brokevw about the speedometer gear when it happened and he said it didn't matter. It was very sudden like ... stoped for diesel and when I went to leave I couldn't shift it into first. I can shift gears easily by matching rpm and I can shift with a lot of force on the stick except for first and reverse grinds into gear.
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Cable is snug because I just put the manual one on a d I kept the rubber bushing. I don't think its clutch related. Its still hard to shift thru the gears with the engine not running. But definitely easier to do so.
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Pop the linkage off the tranny and try and shift it through the gears by the lever on the tranny. If it's easy then you know the tranny isn't to blame. If you are brave and have a helper you could do it with the car running and the clutch pushed in.
Has bad motor mounts been suggested yet?
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(http://a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/115/0229ec674969450a9721f4861291106f/l.jpg)
This is what happend to my 400.00 plus dollar clutchnet ^. It happened with around 30,000 miles. I have no idea why, but it would not let things shift well. I could push the clutch in no change, then rev the piss out of frustration and it would give a bit. It would RPM match and shift fine. It also shifted fine after I replaced it all :D
I hope better results for you sir.
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Great info guys. Really appreciate it. I have nexer changed the motor mounts... that could effect shifting Tyler?
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Could be mounts if they are really bad, I suppose.
Sort of a tangent, but is there an engine alignment procedure/spec on the Mk2 as there is on a Mk1? I don't have a Mk2 Bentley....
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I found out the previous owner (my brother) replaced the rear mount once with a used one. But that was >190,000km ago. I'll try popping off the linkage like Tyler suggested. If the linkage is off I see how that would make it hard to go through the gears but why would it grind into reverse? it never would grind before? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't understand fully how the insides all work.
Could mounts cause an imediate problem though? Like I said, it was like something broke and now something is wrong. It wasnt gradual.
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The linkage is not the problem so I took the plug off the top of the shift linkage inside the transmission (where the arm goes in) and that carrier bearing was completely worn to the point where the ball was floating about inside. I got a used but free one (in excellent condition) and it fixed the hard shifting but with the car in the air i noticed that the wheels would spin when in gear with the clutch depressed.
The clutch isn't disengaging for some frustrating reason. This clutch was new in November and the car was driven at most once a week until april. There must be less than 15,000km on this clutch. I'll hopefully get the trans off now without killing my self and see if the place i bought the clutch from can do anything for me. I'm quite sure there is a 24 month warrenty on it or something. It wasn't cheap :( ($260)
I also flushed the trans and put in new gl4.
This is the furthest i can get the arm to travel. It goes all the way until it hits that thing that juts out of the tranny on the front
(the car is experiencing what i can only imagine is multiple oil leaks which is coating everything in oil which is why its all so dirty - happy Jeremy? I remember once you told me to splash some oil on my clean engine :P
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/IMG_20120530_173303.jpg)
This is the plug hole im talking about. It's also a great place to fill the trans from.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/IMG_20120530_151428.jpg)
This is what was causing the hard shifting
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/IMG_20120530_151358.jpg)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/IMG_20120530_151352.jpg)
The ball isn't supposed to come out...
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f279/edmcclung/IMG_20120530_151413.jpg)
On a side note, does anyone know how to remove the ball that the shifter sits in that is between the floor and the exhaust tunnel? (and how to get the stick out of the ball?)
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Contact brokevw. That arm is not supposed to go past 9:00 position.
The shifter relay ball in the tunnel is tough. I think with stock sized exhaust it could be done without dropping the exhaust, with my 3" I had to drop the exhaust. Then mark everything and take it loose at the pinch bolt, 4 bolts hold the shift tower, I pulled it out as one unit. Once out you see that there is a little spring roll pin or something holding the ball and spring on. Really self explanitory after that.
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lol, i do believe that the little detent assembly is supposed to also have a spring inside the cap holding some tension on the ball..
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I had replaced the spring loaded ball thing at the time of this photo.
The clutch pedal is being pressed in this photo. The arm doesn't sit like that normally. Sits at about 8:59 otherwise :-)
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If you pull up with your arm not the clutch pedal it shouldn't go past 9:00 position, If it does Brokevw says something inside is bad.
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Oh I know. It doesnt. The problem now is 100% for sure the pressure plate or the pusgrod plate.
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I have got to examine my ball and plug thing. I thing mine may need replacing. Just unscrews? no surprises?
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Yes, it just unscrews but make sure you are not in any gears and the stick is right in the middle of neutral. If you have one, i would put a very strong magnet on it or on your ratchet in precaution. The ball inside mine had completely come out and I would imagine can possibly get loose in there. I saw mine luckily and plucked it out with needle nose pliers.
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Here is a short clip of the travel on my push rod. Does this seem normal? the clicking has since gone away. This video was taken after the manual cable and new pushrod/bearing had been installed.
Here (http://youtu.be/FR9Tdmb6ECc)
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So the pushrod had gone through the plate.
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Now hopefully that fixes it.
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Because the clutch I bought in November was under warranty the place I bought it gave me one that is $100 less and they claim better quality. So I got an entirely new clutch and $100 refunded on my visa! Unfortunately not all stories are fairy tales and with the transfer apart I decided I would use the final. Drive seal kits I have and tear the thing apart. Not by choice, I ignorantly pulled out a shaft that holds the shifting forks together so I've got the split the trans in half. I'm almost there, just the 5th gear wont come free so I need a puller with hooks on it. The steering wheel puller I was loaned wont do.
Brian at brokevw.com is a VW hero. Even for those not wanting to do any work on their transmission I suggest looking at his site. Incredibly educational.
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yeah broke is awesome. If you email him he will get back to you very fast and usually has the correct answer first shot. Good luck with your trans.
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I would have been in the clear if I had my own gear puller but RadoTD is coming to my rescue tomorrow. Due time for some hang out anyways I reckon!
So my mistake will be relatively costless since i already had bought the seals about 2 years ago and all the special tools I was able to borrow.
OH! I lied... today i had to buy a 6mm triple square for $9 and I broke a circlip ill likely have to buy from the stealership - and I also donated $25 to brokevw.com which i thought was pretty stingy of me considering a shop was going to charge around $600 just to take the trans apart...
I'm also looking forward to pulling all the red bits from past speedo gears out. I've already pulled about a nickle amount out just froom what was lying around behind the 5th gear housing.
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broke says for whatever reason most grime and deposits are left in that 5th housing/green cap area. Hopefully the rest of your quest continues as cheap as it has been going.
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From the design I can't imagine that area sees too much flow of oil... im sure oil gets in there (clearly it does) but i dont really see an in/out system.
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I got a used replacement clip for free from the local private VW shop (not stealership) and the casing is all back together with the gears shifting beautifully. Now I just need to find a shim for the final drive spring (only on one side!). Does anyone have any sources or ideas to use for a shim for say a 20% (30ft.lbs) increase? It would have to be pretty high grade. There is a ton of spring tension in there...
Just to boast my efforts and make my self feel better for having such filthy hands for the last few days, I changed the intermediate shaft seals, the cam shaft seal that had been stuck on there (due to not having a gear puller to get the sprocket off) for many years, water pump gasket which was leaking like CRAZY! and I put in an 80 degree T-stat instead of my 87 that I like to use in the winter. I had loads of fun testing them on the stove :)
Im also changing the timing belt but i can't time it until i have the bellhousing back on to set the flywheel to TDC. I'm not looking forward to the bench press fight with that thing trying to get it back in there.
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dont bench press it then. stick it under the car, then reach thru the bay from above, pick up the trans off the ground, then slide it on the engine. its way simple..
bench pressing the trans is a royal ***. lifting it up to the flywheel is much easier. i do it that way on all mk1/2/3 cars..
when all my cars were still 4spd, i did the bench press method because the trannies were alot lighter. the 5 spd was considerably harder to bench press, thats why i came up with the method of setting it under the car, and lifting it to the engine.
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Wow don't you just shred your back doing that?
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Wow don't you just shred your back doing that?
not even the slightest..
i have a bad back to begin with, so im all about doing things the easiest way possible..
doing it the way i described, is the easiest method on my back..
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Thanks for the tip kev
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Anyone have any tips for getting those clips on the final drive flanges? I've spent the last 90 minutes firing them across the garage and I'm finally fed up. Considering just bending them open more...
I'm using nice pliers but the openings aren't flat on the clips for what ever reason.
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Anyone have any tips for getting those clips on the final drive flanges? I've spent the last 90 minutes firing them across the garage and I'm finally fed up. Considering just bending them open more...
I'm using nice pliers but the openings aren't flat on the clips for what ever reason.
hold the clip on the end of the stub, pushing down on them towards the groove. then with the clip positioned over the stub, stick your pliers in the opening of the clip, and slowly open it just enough to slide it over the stub shaft.. then tap it into place with a screw driver..
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Worked like a charm and she is all back together. Successssssss!!!!!!! I've changed the entire clutch, push rod, TO bearing, seals and have put the manual cable in there. Is it normal to seem much easier to depress the clutch?
Also, I can hear what sounds like the rod spinning on the plate when I push the cough in.