VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.
Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: Henk on May 08, 2012, 11:38:46 am
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I'm sorry if this has been asked before, probably a lot. I have been looking on here for the past few hours and have a pretty good idea. Engine is an AHU, aiming to make about 150hp
Fuel pump will be off a Land Rover, 200 or 300tdi, is there any difference?
And all I have to do is modify the pump bracket is that true?
As for the turbo, I'm aware there is no bolt-on manifold, but what's the nearest? I don't mind making an adaptor, have use of a lathe and mills at work. Would like to have the turbo help up behind the intake so it's visible too ideally
Finally, controlling the VNT, the age old question. Have read about the small electronic control on dmn.kuulalaakeri.org but got told mechanical was better. have see various mechanical designs, ideally I want something tidy and hidden as I'm going for a show-quality engine bay, hopefully. Also partly the reason for not going e-tdi. Have also seen vacuum controlled VNT's by modifying the actuator
Just trying to clear this all up so I know what I'm up against, with a reasonably clear idea on how to go about it.
Also please bear in mind I've very little experience with cars, never had a pump or turbo in pieces so no doubt I'll be asking more.
Thank You!
-Henk
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i have the landy 300 pump on a ahu..
yes the pump bracket needs opened up for the larger snout..
now mods..
throttle linkage/cable holder for vw cable..
rear mount under the lines needs built.. i took the stock and landy one.. cut welded the lower ear on..
govener mod
my timming is set to 118
pump gear... most use a alh set up.. doing a search here, you will find my looking for educatioon thread in which has a link to how to fit a alh pump on a ahu.. people shim the pump via washers and such, the gear needs shaved down so on... think of landy pump as its this conversion..
what i did.... had the stock ahu pump gear modded into a adjustable one much like how they make adjustable cam gears for a gasser vw... no shimming/thinning so on.. like the other option requires..
with the stock ahu turbo, set to 18-21psi and gov mod im pulling 6200rpm till there is no more pull.. stock tdi tranny ~78mph in 3rd via gps.. i am guessing 150ish hp.. will hold its own no issue with stock vr6/1.8t..
so the turbo you think of should put you much more then 150... the people over the pond say t3 is good for 200hp on this set up.. i just have not found one to bolt on mine yet.. the stock little turbo works.. but makes it hard to drive in under 50*f if wet out.. boost too soon lets my tires rip free with ease if you use the go pedal spiritedly.. id prefer some lag to be honest..
the stock t3 style turbo from a old 1.6td puts the turbo up top like you seek... so that manifold is the one you seek to build the vnt20 onto.. or just try the t3 1st..
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Re vane control, you want the vanes to close based on load or demand for power. You want them to open to maintain your max boost pressure. I've done quite a few different mechanical vane controls (was actually working on an updated design this morning). The simplest and least effective control would be to keep the vanes stationary. Really no point to that as an appropriately sized wastegated turbo will do better. Next up would be a boost can acting on the vanes. The issue there is that there is no load input. Vanes always revert to closed; and so excess back pressure is created in a slew of circumstances like idle, cruise and decel, basically any time you are not at your max boost. Next up is where you have a link to the pedal and close the vanes based on pedal position and have a boost input that opens them back up again for your max boost. That's the style I've been building for a while. One caveat is to make sure the pedal can return from full pedal even if the boost input has opened the vanes up. Another design goal would be to minimize the impact on the feel of the pedal. FWIW, 150hp with a VNT20 on an AHU would be an easy goal for me to reach. Good luck with the project. Pics are always fun to look at.
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great reply, thank you very much.
Opening out the bracket shouldn't be too hard, clock up and bore out. wasn't aware of the rear pump mount, d'you weld it onto the aluminium pump bracket? I'm sure I'll find out in good time, just trying to find a decent pump for cheapish (skint apprentice :()
Gov mod i was going to have a go at, read the how-to on vwcaddy.com and doesn't seem too hard
Yup was reading that thread earlier today in fact, will search for a pulley after i get the pump. Was it hard to do the mod? There's a guy in work who's just made one of them out of aluminium for his kit car, does it work well then?
Impressive boost from that teeny little turbo, I thought they maxed out at about 18PSI? Maybe you have different turbos over there... anyway that's damn impressive! You using standard injectors too?
aye if you stock turbo can see 150 I might see 180 at the crank with a bit more work. Would be nice to double the original power of the engine 8)
I do like the idea of a VNT with the less lag and whatnot, and my GT2052V should be here tomorrow, off an A6 2.5 V6 TDi so pretty settled on which turbo to use :p only cost me about $80
Yeah it seems like the accelerator actuated VNT is best, then having the max boost over-ride the pedal actuation, am i right there?
Maybe i should have a go at the electronic boost controller then?
regcheeseman advised me to just not bother with the vanes and run it as-is
As for photos i have a thread in the User Rides bit, she'll be something a bit out of the ordinary :)
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Running a VNT without taking advantage of the vanes is worse than using an appropriately sized wastegated turbo.
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the mk4 pully set up. alh is like 10lbs... so i just used steel on the stock ahu pully.. simple in design.. and no shimming/messing around.. get plate.. drill holes.. slot outter holes on plate.. i slotted it for 2 teeth of adjustment. and then split the pully... loctite inner perameter bolts.. and lock washers and such on outter adjustment bolts..
now i did screw up and forgot to drill a hole for a lock pin (will be alh style as the big round hole is taken up with pump snout.. ).. was not 100% positive #1 was where it is (people said this but seemed unpositive).. but its same place the AHU is aka 11'o'clockish position via the keyway.. and when/if i ever have my pully off ill drill it then..
rear bolt mount.. i removed thefactory steel plate mount.. the landy plate mount.. over lapped them.. marked where the stock one needed cut.. then welded to the bottom of landy one.. real easy.. bolt plate back on.. when you have 2 pumps in hand you will see..
for the throttle linkage... i used a old 1.6na idi cable holder.. modded to fit via welding.. and lenghtened the stock arm on the pump..
all that stuff is easy.. if you got a mig/tig..
most landy pumps have a throttle position piece ontop of the throttle stuff.. if you go electric on the vnt it canbe used..
the little stock turbo.. it will push 28psi pretty easy... i just backed it down and the wastegate opens between 18-21psi.. lower then that i was getting a surge at say 70mph on the road.. aka it starting to open/close too soon.. i have mine mounted where i can play with it as i drive.. if i crank it up to 28psi.. it gets really silly.. :D
yep i do have bigger nozzles in it.. but sadly not positive what they are... had myke_w get me the parts.. and he got me upgradedded ones.. just not positive what size.. i have little soot.. enough to blacken my rear wheel... but not a cloud you cannot see thru.. i have not even messed with my mixture screw as im so happy with how it is as it is.. except id prefer more lag..
any questions feel free to ask.. i used 8v's guid on here for the gov mod.. its 90% on.. but there is a strange linkage piece inside you gotta deal with that it does not discuss.. but easy enough to figure out.. cover does not come off so easy due to it.. so do not force.. look to see why..
i had seen people say 130ish for setting inital pump timming (was breaking in the engine due to full rebuild and such so figured it would be better at a lower#).. i tried 118 and like it.. figured id try 130.. just have not.. happy as is.. why screw with it.. :D one day ill get use of a dyno.. then ill see what it does.. kinda want some base line #s to start and see what fuel screw and timming will do... while on dyno.. maybe this summer.. not top of priority list
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yeah i did think it'd be a bit pointless. fair size difference between the VNT20 and the pathetic wee turbo that was on there before!
As for the fuel pump, i'll sort the pulley, mount etc and such when i get it. got ripped off on tax this month so I have about £50 left to last the rest of the month :( bracket modifying seems fairly simple, have a MIG welder and access to TIG in work.
Will hopefully be able to do some funky hidden cable routing for the accelerator :)
Interesting, wouldn't have to use a pedal mounted TPS then, can't imagine i'll go E- if I can get a machanical VNT control sorted. bought a boost actuator thing for £10 posted so sounds like I need a TPS activated vane control, over-ridden by boost. right? ???
Crazy stuff, hoping to see about 30psi with mine.
Sounds sensible, not sure where to get new injectors from though over here, the auro 151bhp transporters with the .216s are ideal nut there's a lot of cheap chinese rubbish around too.
ah okay, thanks for all the pump info, will check it all when I come to set the pump up, still have to strip and paint the engine block...
sneaky turbo picture :)
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af322/43655/IMG_3562_800x598.jpg)
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Running a VNT without taking advantage of the vanes is worse than using an appropriately sized wastegated turbo.
my VNT made more/better boost than a K24 did...
you always said that a VNT would be SIMILAR to a K24/T3...
well, its NOT.. the VNT had WAY MORE top end pull. the K24/T3 turbos seem choked up around 5000rpms/25psi..
where as the VNT would pull until the pump rollers would skip..
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you always said that a VNT would be SIMILAR to a K24/T3...
Does it not depend on the size of the VNT? Weren't you using a 17?
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Running a VNT with the vanes stationary is the same a running a wastegated turbo with the wategate blocked. There is a very limited window where it is both producing boost and efficient. With stationary geometry and an operational wastegate, the turbo can be in it's efficiency for a much wider range of rpm/load. The only advantage to a VNT with stationary is that you could choose a reasonable middle road. The VNT15 on a 1.6TD with vanes closed responds faster than a K03. With vanes fully open it responds slower than a K24 or T3. Said another way, vanes closed is better low-end than a tiny turbo, vanes open is better high-end than a big one. I don't recall ever saying that a VNT was similar to a K24 or T3. If I did, then it was a miscommunication.
WRT this particular build, the VNT20 should be a really nice match to a 1.9TDI if an appropriate vane control is used. Having currently only used a VNT15 and 17 on my 1.9 mTDI, my guess is that it would give low-end response similar to a K14 with excellent high boost potential.
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Have very little turbo unlike you guys, but i'm sure this will be fine, it cost me like £66 so wouldn't have been much of a loss compared to a VNT17 which is about £200 over here. silly.
Anyway glad you think it'll be a good match, hoping to see some nice numbers out of the turbo and engine ;D
as for running it with stationary vanes i was never planning on doing that, as you say stupid and worse than a WG'd turbo
Well I've come up with a pretty decent design that i'm happy with for the VNT control anyway.
All mechanical, and pretty tidy/compact which is good because I'm planning on making it a show-worthy bay
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af322/43655/VNTBrainwave.png)
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af322/43655/gickrcom_461b9bdd-9d72-0ae4-71ed-f4494eb3e499.gif)
Throttle pulls the vanes shut as soon as you mash the pedal to the floor for the epic low end boosting, then as soon as the boost comes up it pressurizes the actuator, pushing the vanes back open again
I should probably spring-load the accelerator as the cable would just hang loose when I come off the accelerator again. Still she's amost there, and i'm damn chuffed! :)
Thoughts?
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I've been using that design concept for a couple/few years and it is highly effective.
http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11042
There is one issue you have not accounted for. If you have the accelerator floored and boost rises to the point that the vanes are pushed fully by the boost can, then the accelerator will be held in the fully floored position.
I've actually recently developed a better design than that one even. At some point I'll share the details. ;)
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have read your thread at least twice before :P
I think it's the same kind of idea isn't it? throttle would be on a cable, not on a solid rod so off the throttle would just slacken it. (no easy the show in MS Paint!)
Would probably re-design it with a spring in to take up the slack, although would have to be pretty soft i guess. hmm
Oh and bought a new fuel pump today, off a Land Rover 300TDi, for £40 ;D (about $60)
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If you add a return spring to the vanes, your foot will always be pulling against it. My initial designs were that way and I didn't care for the way it affected the feel of the pedal. With the linked design the pump lever return spring is also the vane return spring and so the pedal feel is unaffected unless the vanes stick.
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take the vnt out and just run the gt15 untill you get your pump ,injectors etc sorted out , then when it is running spot on fit the vnt and make up your vnt linkage , to many things to go wrong at first
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Good idea, yeah could do that. trying to re-design it to be a little tidier, got a manifold now so will make an adaptor in work when I can
No GT15, that's on the MK4 PD engines, mine was a K03 I think, but 'twas shagged, started scoring the housing on the cold side.
The whole engine has been stripped to be cleaned, painted and hopefully re-assembled. except now all the bolts have rusted :(
So I guess either it will work, or I'll realise i was never destined to be a mechanic after all :P
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electronic VGT controller > mechanical controller...
see my sig for a cheap standalone controller, can even do LDA control if you want ;)
8x8 map for VNT & LDA control
Use N75 solenoid based actuators
Live configuration via USB interface and graphical map editor (no special software needed)
Two VNT control modes:
* Duty Cycle map - Uses RPM/TPS info to set VNT actuator position. Additional dampening can be added to improve engine response. No map sensor needed for this setup.
* Target Pressure map - Specify requested pressure value on each control point. Vnt-lda will automatically move actuator until required pressure level is reached.
LDA table can be used to fine tune soot emissions and torque limiting on certain RPM-range.
Cheap and free :-)
* RPM Engine speed sensor, use Honeywell GT101DC or alternator W-output as a source.
* TPS Throttle position sensor (like Bosch "001")
* MAP Manifold absolute pressure sensor for detecting amount of boost, for example 4bar Freescale MPX6400
* Arduino AVR-microcontroller board, servos, n75 (or similiar) solenoid & vacuum actuators
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Lord verminaard and I have been over this a long time ago, we might have even recommended the link to you, but this is NOT a stand alone controller. As quoted you have to buy lots of pieces to do the mechanical bidding, and the Arduino board. That site only gives you the program that is ready to run in the board. You will have several hundred dollars buying all new parts and then you have to make them work. You can't just buy a servo and bolt it on to the stock bracket...there is no stock bracket on these older cars.
It is a good start what you have but the picture painted makes it seem like it would be easier/cheaper than making a mechanical setup and I don't see how it is.
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Lord verminaard and I have been over this a long time ago, we might have even recommended the link to you, but this is NOT a stand alone controller. As quoted you have to buy lots of pieces to do the mechanical bidding, and the Arduino board. That site only gives you the program that is ready to run in the board. You will have several hundred dollars buying all new parts and then you have to make them work. You can't just buy a servo and bolt it on to the stock bracket...there is no stock bracket on these older cars.
It is a good start what you have but the picture painted makes it seem like it would be easier/cheaper than making a mechanical setup and I don't see how it is.
::)
that is just not right...
I was trying to make a standalone VGT controller and found this. not several hundred dollars to implement, your just wrong.
arduino = $35
Power FET = $4
LM317 (5v reg) = $2-6
Map sensor (not required) = $15 (or junk yard)
TPS=... junk yard...
RPM =... $40 brand new... or junk yard (BMWs) or alternator mod
N75 valve = junk yard... or brand new...
proto board = $2
software = free
vacuum actuator = already on the Turbo...
so how do you come up with several hundred dollars if you already bought the VGT and have the Vanes fixed or using a spring & boost can?
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TPS and N75 and vac can are all used in your deal above. I did state for new parts. IF I go to all the trouble of doing this I would not buy used stuff and have to trouble shoot after hours of fab work when one of the used parts is acting up. I will provide links and not just any links with the highest prices possible, but the most economical links I found when I was going to do this.
http://octopart.com/1gt101dc-honeywell-7370636 Hall sender 23.00
http://www.thepartsbin.com/repsite/bosch~throttle_position_sensor~reparts.html Bosch TPS 47.00
http://compare.ebay.com/like/290481934963?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y N75 valve 55.00
http://metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=352&categoryId=52 Vacuum can 105.00
Still have to buy arduino too 35.00 .... BTW we are over 200.00....
and the linked site you gave says to have a map sensor to "Target Pressure map - Specify requested pressure value on each control point. Vnt-lda will automatically move actuator until required pressure level is reached" and they recommend a "4bar Freescale MPX6400" which to my knowledge is NLA but they have a replacement and they are fairly cheap but I don't have a link for that sorry.
Now the fact that I have bought over 200.00 in parts and now I CANNOT just bolt it onto the car I have to fab up the control system as they didn't come with this stuff factory I add in a factor that isn't cheap for me...my time. This is how I came to the several hundred dollar conclusion. If I were going to get all used stuff I could do that with used all thread, used springs, and used hiems joints and have less than 20.00 in a mechanical setup. Probably just as much setup time.
Also, I have 2 VNT turbos, both had the Vac can robbed off of them, so you cannot assume that all VNTs will have them on when delieverd.
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im far from sold on the electronic control methods..
i still think the mechanical methods are better for the mechanical engines..
you can do a mechanical setup for ALOT cheaper than 200 bucks. plus, you wont spend near the time building the linkage setup..
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I find the electronic controls interesting but if going electronic I do not think I would take the approach linked above. The vac actuator and n75 valve was a kluge from the factory and the primary cause of the bad rap VNT turbos often get. If going electronic I would use a stepper motor actuator from a Sprinter.
At the same time, I would not assume that the mechanical controls are easy or quick to build. The parts are fairly inexpensive, but it is a fair bit of time/effort to get it set up exactly right. Without everything moving just right, one will end up with vane sticking issues or inaccurate max boost control
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TPS and N75 and vac can are all used in your deal above. I did state for new parts. IF I go to all the trouble of doing this I would not buy used stuff and have to trouble shoot after hours of fab work when one of the used parts is acting up. I will provide links and not just any links with the highest prices possible, but the most economical links I found when I was going to do this.
http://octopart.com/1gt101dc-honeywell-7370636 Hall sender 23.00
http://www.thepartsbin.com/repsite/bosch~throttle_position_sensor~reparts.html Bosch TPS 47.00
http://compare.ebay.com/like/290481934963?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y N75 valve 55.00
http://metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=352&categoryId=52 Vacuum can 105.00
Still have to buy arduino too 35.00 .... BTW we are over 200.00....
and the linked site you gave says to have a map sensor to "Target Pressure map - Specify requested pressure value on each control point. Vnt-lda will automatically move actuator until required pressure level is reached" and they recommend a "4bar Freescale MPX6400" which to my knowledge is NLA but they have a replacement and they are fairly cheap but I don't have a link for that sorry.
Now the fact that I have bought over 200.00 in parts and now I CANNOT just bolt it onto the car I have to fab up the control system as they didn't come with this stuff factory I add in a factor that isn't cheap for me...my time. This is how I came to the several hundred dollar conclusion. If I were going to get all used stuff I could do that with used all thread, used springs, and used hiems joints and have less than 20.00 in a mechanical setup. Probably just as much setup time.
Also, I have 2 VNT turbos, both had the Vac can robbed off of them, so you cannot assume that all VNTs will have them on when delieverd.
sounds like your not very resourceful and lazy. you will go to all the effort to swap a TDI into car, spend the time to convert an injection pump form electronic to manual ( usually taking an IDI IP and a TDI e-IP and making one) then complain about having to make a bracket or 2. you will also claim that its SSOOO expensive to do... lets see, a "$200" control system to prevent blowing motor or head gasket. how long does it take to replace a head gasket? material cost? now you claim your time is expensive, you can just guess a $/hr rate and do the math and then add that to the cost for your head gasket replacement...
if you want to make this super cheap you can get a Atmega238p with the arduino boot loader programmed into for $5 + shipping, so no need for a $35 dollar board, you then need some caps, a crystal a few resistors ($10 total)....
the MPX 6400 is still available for ~$10
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?vendor=0&keywords=mpx+6400
you can also go to freescales site and request an engineering sample for free. again only needed for target boost mode, not needed for duty cycle mode...
you can also use other analog map sensors, just some calibration is required & 99% of the time the math profile is given in the datasheet.
you can also go to Honeywell's site and request an engineering sample again, for free. or you can use the W-post mod to the alternator ~$2(wire) & 1hr
you don't need a Bosh 101 TPS, a 10k pot will do the exact same thing, or go to a junkyard and pull a TPS off any 3/5 series BMW form 1992-1999 with pigtail for maybe $5-$10 ( never seen one go bad, doesn't mean they don't)
if you need to buy a vacuum can, spend the few extra dollars and get the post 2000 on so you get a linear 10k pot for feed back and wire that into ATmega328p on an analog port for feed back... just gotta add about 6 lines of code. you can even add the PID library (free) and 10 lines of code...
again, this is an afternoon to build & mount, & a day or 2 to fine tuning.
your still gonna spend time tuning the spring, threaded rod(s), and vacuum can. electronic version I can change is minutes... gotta go to emission testing, slap a new map in there so you don't smoke, then go right back to a power tune map...
if you event want to get carried away you can add a LCD and mount it to the dash for live feed back for $3-$20 if you know where to look and what you want...
http://www.bgmicro.com/24x2lcd.aspx
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/709
(I have both of these, the Black on white one is very nice)
im far from sold on the electronic control methods..
i still think the mechanical methods are better for the mechanical engines..
you can do a mechanical setup for ALOT cheaper than 200 bucks. plus, you wont spend near the time building the linkage setup..
all engines are mechanical.
time is minimal. soldering is not that hard or time consuming
200 or less vs a new motor... your right, electronic feedback controls are inferior
I find the electronic controls interesting but if going electronic I do not think I would take the approach linked above. The vac actuator and n75 valve was a kluge from the factory and the primary cause of the bad rap VNT turbos often get. If going electronic I would use a stepper motor actuator from a Sprinter.
At the same time, I would not assume that the mechanical controls are easy or quick to build. The parts are fairly inexpensive, but it is a fair bit of time/effort to get it set up exactly right. Without everything moving just right, one will end up with vane sticking issues or inaccurate max boost control
these is a added line of code that sweeps from open to close to open once upon start up.
the stepper is a nice option but requires more hardware (both electrical and mechanical).
I guess you cant please them all, this is kind of a retrofit kit using the existing vacuum can.
if you got a source of sprinter actuators (for free) i can help break into the protocols that move it... there are some CAN BUS ones out there that should be very easy for me to break into as i have done lots of work with CAN BUS and the protocols.
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When I laid it all out as I did I hit over 200.00 with more to buy, and you had no comment on that. I wasn't saying the electronic option wasn't doable or a bad option. I stated it wasn't bolt and go and that is wasn't as cheap/easy as you are portraying. I was giving a different view of your perception, not knocking it.
This is in the TDI section, but you posted it everywhere. I am more thinking about the IDI's. Even the M-TDI, I guess. If you have the option to run the ECU and the setup exactly like it was factory then I wouldn't build another electric controller to reinvent the wheel. That is just me, personally I would rather run mechanical controls if I have a non ECU car.
You can call me names like lazy and not very resourceful, but my point was proven. You look less credible by doing that and that wasn't what I was trying to accomplish.
Oh yeah...this is your first warning, More name calling*me or others* and you will take a weeks vacation. If it continues you will get banned for longer. Have a nice day ;D
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When I laid it all out as I did I hit over 200.00 with more to buy, and you had no comment on that. I wasn't saying the electronic option wasn't doable or a bad option. I stated it wasn't bolt and go and that is wasn't as cheap/easy as you are portraying. I was giving a different view of your perception, not knocking it.
This is in the TDI section, but you posted it everywhere. I am more thinking about the IDI's. Even the M-TDI, I guess. If you have the option to run the ECU and the setup exactly like it was factory then I wouldn't build another electric controller to reinvent the wheel. That is just me, personally I would rather run mechanical controls if I have a non ECU car.
You can call me names like lazy and not very resourceful, but my point was prove. You look less credible by doing that and that wasn't what I was trying to accomplish.
I did comment on your price layout, and told you where and how to get the parts cheaper. Engineering samples, I get them all the time for work, personal designs, and tinkering.
its fine, don't use it. I really don't care. using the argument of not "bolting on", having to make bracket(s) and it costs money is silly.. clearly the AHU with its fixed gate turbo and putting a VNT is just a bolt on out of a kit...
clearly, see the OEM welds on the IP throttle bracket, see the OEM cut metal with the bolt for a pivot point
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a269/libbybapa/100_1365.jpg)
yes I posted it in several place, not many people know about it. if not many people know about it then it, then its hard to use as on option...
Oh yeah...this is your first warning, More name calling*me or others* and you will take a weeks vacation. If it continues you will get banned for longer. Have a nice day ;D
sorry I upset what seems to be sensitive feelings over the internet (http://images.bimmerforums.com/smilies/wink.gif)
The thought that an electronic control is required to prevent engine damage is nonsensical. The only situation that would cause damage to the engine is vanes stuck in the closed position which is actually more likely due to the crappy vac can/n75 control.
electronic control is required to prevent engine damage is nonsensical? really? talk about nonsensical.... companies wouldn't spend millions in the electronic control systems if they didn't prevent damage... ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v30q6VkphbE
thank you grammar police
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Quote from: libbydiesel
The thought that an electronic control is required to prevent engine damage is nonsensical. The only situation that would cause damage to the engine is vanes stuck in the closed position which is actually more likely due to the crappy vac can/n75 control.
electronic control is required to prevent engine damage is nonsensical? really? talk about nonsensical.... companies wouldn't spend millions in the electronic control systems if they didn't prevent damage..
I think what he is saying is the "electrical" part of that...not the vane control part of that.
I would lock this thread, but your intelligence is too awesome to keep locked up.
P.S. I did not get "upset" by your comments. I have many threads on this site if I needed to prove that I can make stuff. I am just letting you know as I have Mark, Toby, and several others the forum rules and the way things go around here. I don't ban first offense or perma ban after second as a general rule as some have done. Look in the General and FAQ sections, I think Vince posted something like : if you wouldn't talk to a child or grandparent like that then don't click post. I am just calling you on that. I wasn't the only one that noticed either.
I still never said it was a HORRIBLE IDEA...I said it is more work and cost than what you laid out. I know you "could" find some cheaper parts, but I have found in my bass guitar that using a pot made in some 3rd world country only lasts about 4 years of playing, and I don't use the tone knob that often. I would rather just buy a nice bosch part that was made for that kind of abuse.---- Again, my personal preference.
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Keaton, nice engine pic! Beautiful.
Do you have links to some threads/blogs of functional completed projects using the electronic control? I'd love to see pics of your vehicles that are running that control method and the details on which turbos, which parts you used, the necessary fabrication, etc, etc... I'd also be interested in hearing how you monitor the vane motion. Do you have one of the actuators with the potentiometer? How many miles have you been running it and what issues have you seen?
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Keaton, nice engine pic! Beautiful.
you should know, you posted the link ;)
Do you have links to some threads/blogs of functional completed projects using the electronic control?
nope
I'd love to see pics of your vehicles that are running that control method and the details on which turbos, which parts you used, the necessary fabrication, etc, etc...
well I guess I cant answer you, because I don't own a diesel or a mechanically governed one. I put one on a Benz 300D that my friend owns.
I even went to the point of laying out a PCB, etching it and soldering it so it plugs right into an arduino. I don't have pics of the build and i'm at work right now... but when I get home I can post up the pics & gerbes of the "sheild" with the schematic. put it in a fried ECU after removing the PCB ( water proof box and connector to harness)
TPS: used a left over BMW Throttle body and TPS.
RPM: cam sensor BMW 93-95, it creates a pulse that goes to in interrupt (pin2)
as an engineer and a person who truly enjoys designing electronics, system designs, building them and programming them I did all the electrical work and my buddy did most of the mechanical (doesn't mean i can't do it).
I'd also be interested in hearing how you monitor the vane motion. Do you have one of the actuators with the potentiometer? How many miles have you been running it and what issues have you seen?
information is sent to a 24x2 LCD that sits on the dash. The actuator has the vacuum nipple on the side and the 3 pin electronic plug on the top, and i preform an analog read on he feed back..
issues: I'm always wanting to tweak the code and tune and he doesn't want me to touch the car because he is happy with how it works.....
miles on the setup ~10-12k
working on writing a EGT protection setup, user sets max EGT and when hit, the vanes go full open and fires a 2nd N75/N18 valve that cuts the pressure to the LDA/ boost enrichment (goes to open atmosphere= no enrichment )
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The beautiful engine comment was tongue in cheek.
Do anyone know of an inexpensive source for the smart vane actuators? The least I've seen them new so far is $240 from IDparts and they're hard to find used.
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http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com/ is who id call libby..
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wow, this... kicked off a little since i was last on here!
I did look at your electronic controller ages ago. Still have it saved in my bookmarks. the main turn-off was not understanding it anywhere near enough to be confident in making it. To someone with very little electrical knowledge it seems a bit mind blowing! all these electric gidget-gadgets and it's not really a step by step build for beginners kinda thing, so settled on mech setup. with my design i'm happy with how it'll work, just needs building, and the engine re-assembling. am going to make myself a bias pedal box too and throw away the servo, so will have both (maybe) accelerator cables mounted on that for any necessary tweaking.
also have my 300TDi fuel pump for like £40, bit grubby though. any advice on cleaning it up, the thought of stripping it scares me a bit but i'd like it to look tidy, paint it up a bit. will be gov-modding it too, somehow. that should be interesting
Edit, another question. Now that i have my turbo, how do i split it? i've undone the bolts on the hot side, but it doesn't seem to want to come apart at all. 90% sure i'll have to re-clock it to get the oil lines vertical-ish, as the exhaust manifold is ~45deg, with a homebrew adaptor. cold side can be turbed around the 'core' part too i think?
(http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af322/43655/TurboAdaptor.png?t=1339277186)
Calm down now y'all :)
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The beautiful engine comment was tongue in cheek.
Do anyone know of an inexpensive source for the smart vane actuators? The least I've seen them new so far is $240 from IDparts and they're hard to find used.
isnt that YOUR vanagon engine compartment that he posted?!
lol...
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Yes. 8)
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Yes. 8)
thats what i thought..
i knew it was your engine setup based on the linkage setup, and the placement of the blackstone intercooler.