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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: fdnyguy on April 17, 2012, 06:46:49 pm
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I oddly recall a thread (upgrade a 1.6 N/A, maybe??) where pics of different air intakes were shown with what some of you did to get more air in. Obviously, the stock intake with a Giles IP is contradictory, so if anyone has pics or ideas to help, I would appreciate it. And may need the 1.6 filter assembly to modify, if anyone has one.
Thanks. Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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FAQ Make your 1.6 n/a a faster car IIRC.
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FAQ Make your 1.6 n/a a faster car IIRC.
Thank you, Sir......
I've put 4k on the rebuilt, just did a 1500 mile r/t from NYC to Toronto/Montreal and back, and while the Giles IP has held up on hills, I had to downshift about 6x going up hills. I am not complaining, for the car has run great on other hills, I tend to think I-87 in upper NY state has higher grades than I-81 in lower NY State. So I really do think the pump is working its magic. But my best mileage has only been about 40-41, so I am wondering if more air would improve that (obviously), or I may need a few more thousand miles under it's belt to really break in. Where/who else but to ask but you guys, right?
As for the car, the rebuilt 1.6, Giles IP, 1,8 gasser exhaust manifold and d/p from techtronics, and a 2.25" exhaust, running 195/60R14 on the Mk3 'flyer' wheels.
Again, many thanks. I like the PVC pipe setup a little more, but nice jobs by all.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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I have a stock plastic air filter cover, four clips, and I do have an intake but as weird as this sounds, it looks like the clips wore through the intake, I could mig weld it up tho, Im not sure if Im going to run N/A, turbo, or custom ram... but doubt I will run the stock intake
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I have a stock plastic air filter cover, four clips, and I do have an intake but as weird as this sounds, it looks like the clips wore through the intake, I could mig weld it up tho, Im not sure if Im going to run N/A, turbo, or custom ram... but doubt I will run the stock intake
the stock clips DO WEAR INTO THE MANIFOLD..
and the stock intake is really not as restrictive as everyone thinks..
its the air box/intake snorkel that is the restrictive part. if you hook some 3" or bigger pipe up to the stock air box, it works great..
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I have a stock plastic air filter cover, four clips, and I do have an intake but as weird as this sounds, it looks like the clips wore through the intake, I could mig weld it up tho, Im not sure if Im going to run N/A, turbo, or custom ram... but doubt I will run the stock intake
the stock clips DO WEAR INTO THE MANIFOLD..
and the stock intake is really not as restrictive as everyone thinks..
its the air box/intake snorkel that is the restrictive part. if you hook some 3" or bigger pipe up to the stock air box, it works great..
I saw that with the pics under 'air'. So cutting a 3" hole into the front clip top or side (where air intake is now) and running the PVC or 3" hose to the original air intake on fender will make a difference? Or leaving the original size and running a bigger hose/pipe should work as well, correct? And if the stock clips wear into the manifold, should I just run a nut and bolt in their places to seal? Thanks.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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I have a stock plastic air filter cover, four clips, and I do have an intake but as weird as this sounds, it looks like the clips wore through the intake, I could mig weld it up tho, Im not sure if Im going to run N/A, turbo, or custom ram... but doubt I will run the stock intake
the stock clips DO WEAR INTO THE MANIFOLD..
and the stock intake is really not as restrictive as everyone thinks..
its the air box/intake snorkel that is the restrictive part. if you hook some 3" or bigger pipe up to the stock air box, it works great..
I saw that with the pics under 'air'. So cutting a 3" hole into the front clip top or side (where air intake is now) and running the PVC or 3" hose to the original air intake on fender will make a difference? Or leaving the original size and running a bigger hose/pipe should work as well, correct? And if the stock clips wear into the manifold, should I just run a nut and bolt in their places to seal? Thanks.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
no, leave the clips on the box, dont try and rig something up yourself. just because the stainless wears on the aluminum a little, doesnt mean its gonna hurt a thing..
and yes, get rid of that stock intake snorkel coming off your air box..
mk1 had a long snorkel out the FRONT of the air box..
mk2 had a short, right angle snorkel out the PASSENGER SIDE of the air box.
if it were me, i would REMOVE THE SNORKEL COMPLETELY. the snorkel is the BIGGEST restriction. you could have a 12" air intake all the way to the snorkel, and its still only gonna flow what that snorkel will let thru..
if you wanna get rid of your intake restrictions, then remove the snorkel, and throw it as far as you can.
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Hood scoop, Subaru style :P
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Hood scoop, Subaru style :P
Like.
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cut the factory intake manifold and have that full factor air fillter sticking out the hood pointing into the wind, lol, trim the black plastic to where its just enough to hold the air filter in ;D
ok, so please dont REALLY do this based on my advice, although it would probably force a lot of air in, there are probably better ways.
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13514.0
once again the stupid myspace site won't keep pics going. I will get one and post it up. I think the most important deal with my setup was the forced air part. It really rocked going down the highway when the highway speed air was running into it.
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/3e63f71130b6624fc71d88fa713f4d86/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/2553829da9db7d2be1bd7bf2a0780f38/l.jpg)
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/11/9c1d854984f3564512bce9fe5d1c5fd4/l.jpg)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/7603fbec512c6c1dfe2073996a600f7c/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/28/856e67419a86f1b20097649c8db98302/l.jpg)
It all could have been done with aluminum intercooler tubing and if I did it again that is what I would do, but this rocked the Flat Maroon Bunny.
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whats better the td stock airbox setup into fender or one of these ram air things through the grill?
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They are 2 completely different intake manifolds.
You cant use the NA manifold on a TD afaik
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They are 2 completely different intake manifolds.
You cant use the NA manifold on a TD afaik
yep..
and you cant use a TD air box on a n/a either..
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Utilizing the description by Damac, I think that "one of these ram air things through the grill" will help induce at least a messed up/mushed out air filter element, and possibly even "hydrolock" if used during a nice rainstorm! Otherwise, go for it.
Sorry... haven't found the 'good & cheap' answer yet, but haven't given up yet either. The tube really needs a rain-dump curve & pre-drain.
J.R.
SoCal
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you have to consider that a certain amount of water would be fine, if not a good thing. while on the flip side yes, too much could be instantly horrible. gassers have used water injection to increase power. I think that in small quantities water could have similar effects as an intercooler and turbo in one, it would increase the compression ratio, and provide cooler air, as well as take more heat OUT the exhaust. Just my opinion though as I havent tested anything like this
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I did put a screen in mine after that as I was cleaning the filter alot. I now have UNI FILTER...the mesh they use to make their filters and would zip tie it over the end to keep stuff out now.
We had some great storms and above the bumper where I had it the element never even felt wet. I would think you would have to get around a tbsp in one hole to hydro lock it. In my case I really don't see how you could get that much to one hole past the filter. I am sure somehow it could but I think it would be the perfect storm. It seemed like the faster you went with this setup the less got in there. Bumper, wind, grill, and screen really busted stuff up.
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Utilizing the description by Damac, I think that "one of these ram air things through the grill" will help induce at least a messed up/mushed out air filter element, and possibly even "hydrolock" if used during a nice rainstorm! Otherwise, go for it.
Sorry... haven't found the 'good & cheap' answer yet, but haven't given up yet either. The tube really needs a rain-dump curve & pre-drain.
J.R.
SoCal
dude, if its approved for use in oregon, then it will work ANYWHERE..
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dude, if its approved for use in oregon, then it will work ANYWHERE..
LOL ;D. Sig'd 4 truth.
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http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=13514.0
once again the stupid myspace site won't keep pics going. I will get one and post it up. I think the most important deal with my setup was the forced air part. It really rocked going down the highway when the highway speed air was running into it.
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/3e63f71130b6624fc71d88fa713f4d86/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/50/2553829da9db7d2be1bd7bf2a0780f38/l.jpg)
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/11/9c1d854984f3564512bce9fe5d1c5fd4/l.jpg)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/17/7603fbec512c6c1dfe2073996a600f7c/l.jpg)
(http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/28/856e67419a86f1b20097649c8db98302/l.jpg)
It all could have been done with aluminum intercooler tubing and if I did it again that is what I would do, but this rocked the Flat Maroon Bunny.
Moving off the aluminum intercooler tubing, would it be crazy to maybe have one of your Amish buddies build a custom intake(s), either with a 3" opening or complete aluminum pipe running to the original air intake on the RF fender? If not aluminum,go with PVC or a 3" intake hose(??) I have looked into machine shops near me here, but you guys have tons of knowledge with these setups more than I do, and besides adding clip holders, I would also guess that some sort of foam rubber seal would have to be glued to possibly fit as well(???) No doubt you can describe it better, and I tend to think Amish labor will be cheaper than NYC labor......
Just an idea, maybe you guys can carry the ball from here...
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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dude, if its approved for use in oregon, then it will work ANYWHERE..
LOL ;D. Sig'd 4 truth.
the whole quote never made it to your sig tho...
i really appreciate it when people find the things i say, to be humorous..
there are quite a few people around the forums with quotes from me, as there sig's..
maybe ive just been around too long?! ::)
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I wouldn't say you have been around too long but there are other statistics that are more telling.
Name: R.O.R-2.0
Posts: 5182 (8.579 per day) This may have everything to do with it
Position: Veteran
Date Registered: August 27, 2010, 12:53:40
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He had been on for more than that. The Rabbit on Roids original acount was banned lol
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And we know why don't we?
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dude, if its approved for use in oregon, then it will work ANYWHERE..
LOL ;D. Sig'd 4 truth.
the whole quote never made it to your sig tho...
i really appreciate it when people find the things i say, to be humorous..
there are quite a few people around the forums with quotes from me, as there sig's..
maybe ive just been around too long?! ::)
Oops, thanks for noting that; fixed.
And the frequency of your quotes shows a consensus among users of acceptance your opinions and humor. A kind of online measure of respect, I guess. Count me on that list. :)
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I'm trying to solve a leaky vcg and installed a G60 cast valve cover. Took a long time b/c I had to clearance the lip of the inner timing belt cover (yes, I *know* some folks have posted theirs bolted right up, but this was absolutely fouling), then I had to drive to the store and get a different gasket b/c the one I got from GAP didn't fit right. Finally got it bolted on, went to put on the stock snorkel thing (upgrading that to a larger diameter intake is on the soon-to-do list) and HEY! You can't put the stock airbox lid back on with the G60 there! It's too tall--the snorkel outlet is pretty much straight into the back of the valve cover. Even if I pull the snorkel off, the nipple that the snorkel mounts to fouls by about an inch. Christ.
So now what? I think a MK2 airbox lid exits out the side, but that would be right into the fuel filter, right? I'm willing to fab something up, but not sure how to go about it... with the lack of clearance against the G60 cover the intake is going to have a pretty severe turn in it SOMEWHERE, and utilizing the OEM snout location (modified or otherwise) is pretty much out of the question.
Anyone done this?
Luke
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I'm trying to solve a leaky vcg and installed a G60 cast valve cover. Took a long time b/c I had to clearance the lip of the inner timing belt cover (yes, I *know* some folks have posted theirs bolted right up, but this was absolutely fouling), then I had to drive to the store and get a different gasket b/c the one I got from GAP didn't fit right. Finally got it bolted on, went to put on the stock snorkel thing (upgrading that to a larger diameter intake is on the soon-to-do list) and HEY! You can't put the stock air box lid back on with the G60 there! It's too tall--the snorkel outlet is pretty much straight into the back of the valve cover. Even if I pull the snorkel off, the nipple that the snorkel mounts to fouls by about an inch. Christ.
So now what? I think a MK2 air box lid exits out the side, but that would be right into the fuel filter, right? I'm willing to fab something up, but not sure how to go about it... with the lack of clearance against the G60 cover the intake is going to have a pretty severe turn in it SOMEWHERE, and utilizing the OEM snout location (modified or otherwise) is pretty much out of the question.
Anyone done this?
Luke
I'm in the same boat, but with different oars. However, even with my limited mechanical skills, I'm thinking about going off the center and try to plug up the snorkel intake on the right side. While a 3" PVC might be TOO big for a Mk2, anything is better than the snorkel intake there now (Hell, 2" may do the trick...Gentlemen???). Should there be no room off the center, I've inquired on here about having one made out of sheet metal, then running the air intake off the side into the RF fender, where the original hose was hooked up to. FWIW, trying to make the snorkel intake bigger may not work out well. But then again, my skills are not good to begin with, and someone may be able to.
If anyone knows what will and not work, it's the members on here. Even ideas on how to modify your Mk2 snorkel. Good luck. Let me know. I'd love to hear it.
Stay safe, stay well. Jimmy.
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I had to drive 10,000km before my mileage went back up.
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Necessity being the mother of... something... I went out and made it happen. I noticed that if you flip the mk1 intake cover upside down, it presents you with a nice square, handily angled at a 45 degree angle. It still won't fit with the G60 cover-- in fact, upside down it doesn't fit by an even larger margin--but a plan was born. I cut off the snout, then proceeded to grind more and more off until it would fit between the G60 cover and the airbox. Turns out, you can grind it down flat and it STILL won't fit. So I got out the heat gun and melted the front of the box a bit and smushed it until it fit. Then I realized that the filter sticks out a hair, and you can't get it in position with the filter unless you smush it more. So I did. It looks like hell in this pic, but I don't think it's smushed much more than a half inch. Then I dremel'd a hole in it in the aforementioned square spot:
(http://ldeikis.smugmug.com/Other/Misc-motorcycle-images/i-2hHJjtL/0/L/IMG0148-L.jpg)
I got the suction hose off an old shopvac and fit that into the hole just perfect, then closed up the opening where the original snout was with some plastic from a bucket, a couple screws and some RTV. Used more RTV to seal up the hose entrance. Here's a pic before the RTV:
(http://ldeikis.smugmug.com/Other/Misc-motorcycle-images/i-f5XMVT8/0/M/IMG0152-M.jpg)
and
(http://ldeikis.smugmug.com/Other/Misc-motorcycle-images/i-56ZLcGZ/0/M/IMG0150-M.jpg)
The hose is only a hair more than 2" ID, but I measured the tip of the snorkel at about 1.5", so that's a full double the cross section if I did my Pi R squared right. Unfortunately the shop vac hose is corrugated inside, which isn't doing anything great for turbulence, but so it goes. My initial thought was to use suction hose from an irrigation pump, but the only 2" line I have around can't be cut up for the car. With the extra height of the G60 cover I don't think I could close the hood on much more than 2"--maybe 2.5 if it was run just perfectly tight. Right now it just sort of sits behind the right headlight, we'll see how that works. I can't tell any appreciable difference in sound or performance, but I've got a huge crack in my exhaust at the moment, so it would have to be pretty outrageous to notice the sound. New exhaust (and homemade downpipe) are on the way.
If nothing else, the G60 cover seems to have solved the damn leak.
Luke
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heat gun to thinwall PVC? you could bend, shape, and FLATTEN it
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That's what I will try over the weekend. Thanks for the tip there Billybob. I went to Home Depot last weekend looking for something other than the 3 inch bendable dryer vent hose that I have been using up till now. It sort of met it's death on the drive up last week as it came off the oval at the airbox and got sucked into the fins of the alternator. Well a good part of it did anyway. So I thought they might have some 3 inch pipe I could use. Well not like I thought but the guy gave me a piece of that black thinwalled drainage pipe for free. So I am going to heat that up and see if I can make the oval and the flat over the VC and get past the IP front and to the 4 inch adapter I have in the grill. If I can do that I will have RAM air from 4 inch down the oval at the airbox. Should be a bit better that what I have now.
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If your drainage line fails you, take a look at irrigation pump suction hose. It's smooth inside, available in a bunch of sizes, won't crush, and flexible but not noodley. You can usually buy it by the foot for a couple buck a foot from any place that sells irrigation parts, or over the phone if you're not in that kind of neighborhood. It's soft enough you could squish it into an oval with a vice I think.
Luke
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That is the type of hose I was after. Smooth bore but kind of squishy. I need to make the oval to round change to avoid hacking on the airbox. I don't think that is necessary for extra air to get in there. Just need the bigger diameter at the front end. The rest takes care of itself.
Time to hit the Grange.