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Engine Specific Info and Questions => TDI Engine -General Info => Topic started by: TDForNow on February 10, 2006, 04:51:23 pm
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What options are there for putting a TDI in a north/south car like my '85 Quantum TD. My alt and a/c comp are on the manifold side of the motor. No a/c not an issue, already deleted the condensor to make room for a FMIC. Radiator fan takes the space on the IP side though. Am I looking at importing a B5 1.9 non-PD motor/tranny assy from the Euro side?
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Where there is a will, there is a way... I think it'd be awesome...and very unique too! Don't see many people doing things with quantums. The only thing I'd be majorly concerned with is the max power that the v-drive of the synchro can handle. I can't remember exactly, but I think it was in the neighborhood of 200hp or so stock. Can't remember the torque figure. My dream is to do a Corrado with Synchro :) and a PD 150 motor. So much fun...
I had an email from someone that was going to do a similar setup, only, it was using an older Audi Quattro...but it'd be the same setup. The mounts, etc. should be fairly easy to do even with the longitudal setup you'll be working with (north/south). Let me see if I can dig that email up and maybe put you in touch with the guy.
Joe
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What options are there for putting a TDI in a north/south car like my '85 Quantum TD.
Your TD quantum is not Syncro though, right? So you are looking at a full driveline and TDI swap?
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the syncro trans is a5cyl bolt pattern for a quantum..so a 4cyl vw engine won't fit..buta 2.0L 5 cyl idi td or a 2.4L canadain eurovan idi or 2.5L 5cyl tdi will fit..nicely in the syncro...go back and look up posts from jack bombay he was swapping a audi 2.0L idi td into ascyncro..i wanted to do a 2.5L tdi in my quantum syncros..later
Deo
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i've seen bellhousing conversions out there...ranging from using the one from an MK2 Ralleye Golf or Golf Country to guys that are making conversion kits. The Quantum TD I had and parted was 4cyl . I'd be worried though about the initial hp/tq ratings for the factory synchro system.
Joe
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The only thing I'd be majorly concerned with is the max power that the v-drive of the synchro can handle. I can't remember exactly, but I think it was in the neighborhood of 200hp or so stock. Can't remember the torque figure.
I had an email from someone that was going to do a similar setup, only, it was using an older Audi Quattro...but it'd be the same setup. The mounts, etc. should be fairly easy to do even with the longitudal setup you'll be working with (north/south). Let me see if I can dig that email up and maybe put you in touch with the guy.
Joe
Thanks Joe, I was wondering about the power limits of Syncro system. How different is it from the Quattro system? Motor-wise, I'm looking to do the same thing that you are with your Rabbit ( makes me wish I had kept my '81 LS Diesel!!) but all that torque with just front drive has worried of getting it all down to the ground. Besides, I don't think my stock trans will handle this kind of power, besides I'd want a taller final ratio (1st would be useless with my current final) BTW, have you found a VG/VN Turbo in the size of a T3. I'd like to use something like that to help the low-end.
Your TD quantum is not Syncro though, right? So you are looking at a full driveline and TDI swap?
Right jackbombay, it's not (yet... maybe). So if I do this, I will need to do a full driveline swap in addition to the TDI swap. I'm thinking of using parts from a couple of late 80's Audi 4KQ donor cars I've got a line on. With that vintage, the two cars used the same body shell.
the syncro trans is a5cyl bolt pattern for a quantum..so a 4cyl vw engine won't fit..buta 2.0L 5 cyl idi td or a 2.4L canadain eurovan idi or 2.5L 5cyl tdi will fit..nicely in the syncro
Thanks Deo, I was hoping some one had found a way to overcome this. Do you or anyone else know if the B5 or 5.5 1.9 TDI's on the other side of the pond came available with 4Motion?, I know I couldn't use the ass-end, but the tranny might solve a lot of problems. To change mine to a 5cyl TDI in addition to the AWD conversion, I'd might as well put 5cyl TDI in a Syncro or an Audi Quattro because I'd have to change ALL my underhood stuff from 4 cyl to 5 cyl from the sub frame on up.
Having said all that, sounds like it might be easier to import a complete B5 TDI Passat! Yikes!! Even if I don't do AWD, I'd still have to upgrade the tranny some how to handle the extra power and to get a taller ratio. I still have to overcome the accy mounting and oil pan differences. Does an IDI oil pan fit a TDI? Thanks folks.
Alain
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No problem on the helps...
As far as putting the power to the ground. Alot will come to a properly balanced tranny and a good driver to know the car well. LSD for the tranny as well as a lower R&P ultimately. Not to mention, a pretty heavy duty clutch. I'll be using a reinforced 16v pressure plate and a 6 puck sprung clutch disc rated to about 250hp/325tq
Where there is a will there is a way. I know there are guys that have done complete swaps in Audi applications and MKII/MKIII. Even a few corrados that have gone Synchro style using Ralleye Golf G60 parts and the latter. I had an article/thread on that (corrado specific) about how they converted it, etc. and what was involved as well as the hp/tq ratings on the ralleye golfs system. Makes me wonder what is different between the quantums system and the ralleye golf. If there even is. TDI Synchro would be so much fun :) I keep adding to my list. Malone's white two dr. MKII base, TDI motor, Ralleye Golf Synchro driveline... OYE :) Which I could get out of my MKI fix and had the extra fixings for it all!
Joe
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Hi Joe,
That's what I expected as far as the tranny/clutch. The main diference between the Quantum and the Golf is layout; Quantum=N/S Golf/Corrado=E/W
Yea, TDI Syncro would be a lot of fun!! Picture power-drifting through the corners adding some black smoke to the blue smoke OYE-VEA!!
Alain
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yeah...i'm wondering power rating wise between the two systems. It would seem to me that the north/south system you'd think would be stronger because of the strength that can be applied in compenents in a "straight line" vs. that of the tranverse setup like the MKII Golf Ralleye/Country. But I def know the power output of the Ralleye Golf was quite impressive and there are people out there doing conversion of TDI into them as well as the very rare rally series MKIII units "A59's"
I am dreams of "bunny hops" side to side :)
Joe
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Maybe make a hybrid 4 cyl Quattro/Syncro tranny!! I'd probably be divorced before completing this after having tranny parts in Both bathtubs!!
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Found a 1.9 TDI 130 and gearbox (front-driver) from an '01 Passat w/50k in the UK for 500quid (<$900US) :twisted: !! Wonder how much to ship it the states?
I think I'm gonna skip the Syncro transformation. It'll be easier to make an Audi 4Kq into a Quantum :shock: !
Alain
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the syncro trans is a5cyl bolt pattern for a quantum.. ..buta 2.0L 5 cyl idi td or a 2.4L canadain eurovan idi or 2.5L 5cyl tdi will fit..nicely in the syncro.....later
Deo
Is this the same as my D24T? Is there an LT transproter synchro?(I have never seen an LT, my VW dealer doesn't acknowledge the existance of such a thing.......
The best AWD opton I have yet found on my Volvo... the ZF 4HP22-E slushbox is shared by certain Range Rovers using a proper transfer case. Might be another option. I also know that in Europe, Volvo sold a Cross Country with a 180 HP TDI V6, but no details on that.
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Is this the same as my D24T? Is there an LT transproter synchro?(I have never seen an LT, my VW dealer doesn't acknowledge the existance of such a thing...
IIRC, the D24 & T had the same bolt pattern as the Audi 5 cyl motors, gas and diesel, so a Quattro tranny should bolt on to yours.
Over on the other side of the pond there is(was) an LT syncro. VWoA folks run around with "force-fitted" blinders courtesy of VWAG, their motto is "if it ain't here...... it can't possiby exist"
Alain
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Is this the same as my D24T? Is there an LT transproter synchro?(I have never seen an LT, my VW dealer doesn't acknowledge the existance of such a thing...
IIRC, the D24 & T had the same bolt pattern as the Audi 5 cyl motors, gas and diesel, so a Quattro tranny should bolt on to yours.
Alain
Yea, the D24 has the same bolt pattern as the 5 banger audi, or so I 've read here many times, you would have to modify the bumper and front valence a fair bit to make a D24 fit in a quantum, the 5 banger was already fairly tight.
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I suspect you'd get best performance starting with a tubeframe :twisted:
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Boy, this is getting carried away......... DT24 in a tube frame Quantum.........Nah, I gotta plan now :twisted: ....... Fly to the other side of the pond, pinch an Audi 3.0 CR V-6 TDI with a quattro-fied 6 spd tranny :twisted: :twisted: ..........Audi GT running gear and fender flares...... Euro grille and lights :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ...... now.....where did my wife put that winning lotto ticket? :P
......Hey !! Has anyone seen my wife?!! :shock: :shock: :shock:
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With all seriousness though, I think I'm gonna keep it a front driver, albeit, definitely with limited-slip in the gear box!! Besides, the rear driveshaft would take up the desired room for a proper sized exhaust pipe. :twisted:
Back to the 1.9 TDI 130 across the pond, Anyone have any experience crating a motor-tranny over here stateside? :?:
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www.ultim8vw.com
My TDI-M expected soon.
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deepmud, thanks!
Are these prices $CAD or US? Man, these guys sound awesome!!
Thanks again!
Alain
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>> www.ultim8vw.com
I second that... I sourced a 2.5 V6 TDI for my A4 project from Petr at ultim8. He's got access to a ton of different European only models including any TDI you can imagine.
For my project, I got an entire car (minus the shell) including wiring, quattro drivetrain, exhaust, gas tank, etc... It took a bit of doing to import and get everything here, but so far so good...
More details here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=131414
I had thought of doing a 5 cyl TD in an Audi 4000 quattro, but decided to do the A4 instead. Jackbombay made good progress on his swap and inspired me to think about doing the same. The biggest issue I could find was the transmission ratio's for the stock 4kq trans / diff. If I were going to do a Quantum (same basic setup minus a few changes in the rear suspension), I think I'd look for a 100 quattro TD (5000 in early years over here) in Europe. I'm sure Petr could find you something like that...
Not sure whether the 5 cyl in the Eurovan would be suitable for your purposes or not.
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Just found this too...
Lots of good info about the 5 cyl's and such...
http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9985
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Hi!
could it be this engine also fits into the Porsche 944 since this car also has a audi 5 cyl tranny?
Grtz!
Ruben
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ruben:
could it be this engine also fits into the Porsche 944 since this car also has a audi 5 cyl tranny?
I'd think the 5 cyl could be too long, even for the 944. That's why all the cooling stuff was mounted beside the motor in the Quantum/Audi 4k.
Anyway, I'm giving up on the Syncro fitting and going to keep it a 4 cyl. WAY too much work otherwise either way
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I have an ALH in A Syncro van. chipped, injectors. Many others have powerful engine conversions in them.
KEP Probably makes an adaptor; I'm using One.
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I sourced a 2.5 V6 TDI for my A4 project...
More details here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=131414
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: I hadn't seen that, I've got some reading to do!
EDIT- Super cool project, bummer about the damaged goods, I like the look of the audi rear hatch way better than the passat wagon hatches.
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Syncro drivetrain parts wouldn't fit in a non-syncro Quantum anyway. At least, not the rear end.
Looking at the body pictures, there's no space for the rear axles and differentials in the back end of a any non-Syncro Quantum. You'd have to do some major alteration and fabrication to fit them in there, which would be pretty pointless.
However, I'm working on the Audi 2.0L TD swap into my 86.5 Syncro. It should be pretty sweet. :D
If I had the money, I'd do a 2.5L 5-cyl TDI in a heartbeat.
If I had even more money, I'd do a 1.9TDI custom hybrid drive setup in there.
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the guy thats making my manifold also put a 20v 5 cyl turbo audi engine in a vanagon synchro,he made his own adapter plates,and i shouldnt really even be talking about this.... :wink: