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General Information => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: ORCoaster on February 05, 2012, 09:33:56 pm
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Well on my 225 mile trip from the coast to Portland tonight I picked up some bad vibes and I am so rattled I thought I would ask for a second or third opinion on it.
So here is the situation. Running at 60 to 65 MPH and the whole cars is buzzing along. Fingers are shaking over the steering wheel, the rear view is moving so badly the lights in it from the cars behind are lines a half and inch long.
I push in the clutch and let the motor idle down and as I slow a bit the vibrations are still there but slack some as I drop about 5 MPH.
Would I be looking at new rear axles and bearings again? I just did that about 5K miles ago. Could I have just thrown a weight on the rear wheels? Should I be checking the transmission or the axles?
You tell me, I need a nights rest in a calm setting to think straight.
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Could be front wheel weights, cv joints inner or outer, transmission, bearings up front.. Any snow there? Some built up in the rim??
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loose bolt on thi IP..the one one the bottom of the pump by the dip stick..??
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If it doesn't go away with the engine RPM it is drive line related. I would guess you lost a wheel weight or there is a balloon in your tire. I had a rabbit with the rear tire that went bad on the inside and I didn't find it forever. Most speeds it was fine.
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Some additional Info. I had the car weighed down to the max. 2900 GVW, I passed it over the scales coming up Hwy 101 and the car was on the stops in the rear. Buzzed the tires occassionally on the fenders crossing bridges when driving 60 mph. Stupid expansion joints.
Being loaded as it was I am going to check for missing weighs first then, bearings and then driveline. I do have one new axle on the drivers side but not sure if the other isn't showing it's age now. Maybe all the hard pulling was causing it to show its wear.
Still bulked up like it was I still got 48 MPG out of it. Love that.
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All wheels have their weights on. Either on the inside or both in and outside of the rims. So I guess it is time to jack up the wheels and give em a wiggle.
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Did you have the front drive shafts out lately? I had one out abought a two months ago. I didn't get the drivers side tight, it came loose and made a intermittent viberation at anything over 40 mph.
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Dean, if you are not located in the UP I would be surprised with a last name of Erickson. Was a MTU grad myself.
But no I haven't had the front axles off in a long time but replaced the rears about 4 months ago when massive bearing failure took the works out.
So tonight I had just enough time to crawl under the car and jack each wheel up and check for trouble. You know, binding, bearings grinding, top of tire moves half an inch when rocked, that sort of thing. Result not much. The wheels spun like a top when given a slight push. No axle movement in the front that would lead me to think a CV was going out either.
The only thing I had was a 1/4 inch wobble on the rear passenger side. So I am going to pull the cap off that side and see if I can get the lock nut to give me one sixth of a turn tight without binding the washer to badly. Then I will replace the cotter pin and hope for the best. I thought I needed to drive across town for work tomorrow but that meeting got cancelled by work of a different nature.
So is 1/4 inch of wobble enough to cause a wicked vibration? I wouldn't think so but that is my thought on the matter. Am I off base?
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1/4 inch is too much but I wouldn'ta thought it would shake that bad. Spin the tires and see if you have a lump on one or a bent rim maybe.
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Dang it, forgot to check for tire bulges on the fronts when i had it up in the air. Oh well, there's always tomorrow evening. Hydraulic jack it quick to get under in four places. Now that it has been up in the air shouldn't have to muscle it up that 3/4 of a inch to get it on the jack.
Tires did spin true, I didn't see any up and down motion on them like they were out of round. Might have to get a piece of chalk and hold it still and move in close to the tire to see if there is a high point.
I will keep looking. And fix the wobble.
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I had a vibration,on my 82 Caddy,which was difficult to narrow down,
First let me explain: This truck had new everything (well almost) before going on the road. New wheel bearings,brakes,rotors,drums,hardware,full fron suspension and steering,motor mounts,ect...
Had the same exact vibration,after installing new tires and wheels
Turned out to be drive axels. (the truck had one reman and one rebooted)
I installed 2 NEW axels from Advanceauto.com for a total of $125 (with online discount coupon) Lifetime warr.
Solved my vibration
Old axels seemed good- Go figure.
I will add- the new axels were tight at first (even with a ton of CV lube) Took sveral days driving,to break in. Sounds silly,but I could feel the difference- I couldn't coast nearly as far,before they broke in. I drive the same route every day.
If all else fails,maybe worth a shot.
One thing distinctive about my vibration (aside from starting around 60MPH) I noticed that while going uphill-the vibration was much worse--going downhill was much less.
Old axels appeared tight and didn't clack or chug on tight turns.
Good luck,Mike
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OK, thanks Mike. I did take the car out last night to see what types of weirdness would present themselves. I went looking at an 81 turbo Caddy. Didn't buy it though.
The problem may very well be in the axles of the differential. I noticed that if I slowly accelerated that the vibrations seemed to start right about 27 mph on the GPS Nave unit I have for a speedo. If I let off on the throttle the went away. Hit the throttle hard and they come back. Definately have RPM of wheels or axles not engine correlation. Kind of a Whump Whump Whump at the 27 mph zone.
I did tweak the motor mounts on this engine last weekend. So I am going to start there as they say, go back to the last thing you did and you will generally find the problem.
I don't have my Bentley with me so could someone do me the favor and summarize the engine centering process for me. Do you loosen them all and start with the rear mount, move forward and then center it side to side or what. I think that makes the most sense but then again it is a German engineered car and I am mostly German but with a healthy mixe of Polish too. Good/Bad combo actually. Don't ask why.
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Acceleration leads me to think CV joints..
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One new one old axle. Might just be the mismatch in age and wear. Time to buy new? Time to tighten hex bolts? I'll keep ya posted
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I am with 8v on this. I have had older ones hold up longer than newer ones too. Sucks replacing the same side 2 times before getting to the other side, but it happens.
I think the process in the MK2 anyway was loosen them all, shake the engine and trans around until it settles, then tighten them all. I thought mk1 should be the same.
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K guys, will tackle what I can over the weekend if it don't rain. In Portland, yeah, your getting wet buddy.
I have had mixed results with new axles. Seems the thing to do is get those that have the lifetime warranty even if they only last a year or so at least you're not buying the full boat again. I once owned a Subaru Justy that would go through axles like cotton candy in a rainstorm. Once I returned them the third time the supplier told me he couldn't understand why such a light car would do that kind of damage. But he always sent a new one as soon as I called and the box came with a return label prepaid. Very worthwhile investment the first time out.
I will loosen and giggle the engine into place first and see if that solves the problem as a means of eliminating variables. Like I said going back one giant step from the last part touched.
Thanks. DAS
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Well, jacked it up, loosened the engine and got it to stop transferring massive vibrations into the body. Then double checked bearing and tire on drivers side. Crawled underneath again and got about 1/8 of a turn on all hex head bolts holding the axle flange to the differential. That was the one I replaced earlier.
Proceed to Passenger side. No problem with the axle or hex nuts on that side. Double check the bearings, nothing loose or wiggling here. Spin tire, WHOA what is that? Why it is a freaking bulge and a ripple across the tire. So who said check the tires? EDIT: First theman53 said it and again suggested by Rabbitman, youse da winners man, Take a bow or a brew, whatever.
I threw on the spare and tried it on the main drag which has several miles of 30 then jumps to 45 and 55 ending at the exit ramp to I-5. Doubled back on interstate doing 60-65. Still a bit of a shake. Probably due to the fact that the tires one one side were 185 60 14 and the other 175 70 13. Time to take a run to the tire store and swap the spare over to the better rims. 20 bucks later it rolls like it used to.
So thanks all' My guess is that given a little bit of sunshine the first time I looked at it I would have seen the bulge and never asked the questions I did. Tough to source out problems at the end of a flashlight in the rain.
Check the tire: After they removed it and threw it on the junk pile
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20120211-00060.jpg)
And Still on the rim:
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20120211-00057.jpg)
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If it doesn't go away with the engine RPM it is drive line related. I would guess you lost a wheel weight or there is a balloon in your tire. I had a rabbit with the rear tire that went bad on the inside and I didn't find it forever. Most speeds it was fine.
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Moderators don't count cause they can slip in and change dates posted and such and make themselves look good. Sorry, should have given you the credit. Will have to edit the title, again.
At least I am rolling without the shakes, That was unnerving.
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I suggested it because one time I put ball joints, inner and outer tie rods, control arm bushings and had it aligned professionally...still had the shake. I didn't mess with the rear too much other than look at it. I couldn't see anything. About 2 months later I had a football sized balloon coming off the main tire shape on the rear, and it was growing daily. Looked like Gumby or Bobby Brown years ago. Who would have thought that the rear had anything to do with the way things go down the road. Mine even seemed to change when you were steering, so I thought front for sure. I let it go to see how big it would get and after about that 2.5 month mark I took it off as I was starting to get scared. After all that I always check tires first.
I am not taking advantage of being a mod like that...yet LOL.
You just have to understand as little help as I am here, I need the fact of being right occasionally. It helps me post more, and then the more you throw at a wall something will stick eventually :D
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We will have to put a star next to your name when you actually get something right then. Thanks
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I prefer smiley face or a heart, but I will take a star :D
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Well, jacked it up, loosened the engine and got it to stop transferring massive vibrations into the body. Then double checked bearing and tire on drivers side. Crawled underneath again and got about 1/8 of a turn on all hex head bolts holding the axle flange to the differential. That was the one I replaced earlier.
Proceed to Passenger side. No problem with the axle or hex nuts on that side. Double check the bearings, nothing loose or wiggling here. Spin tire, WHOA what is that? Why it is a freaking bulge and a ripple across the tire. So who said check the tires? EDIT: First theman53 said it and again suggested by Rabbitman, youse da winners man, Take a bow or a brew, whatever.
I threw on the spare and tried it on the main drag which has several miles of 30 then jumps to 45 and 55 ending at the exit ramp to I-5. Doubled back on interstate doing 60-65. Still a bit of a shake. Probably due to the fact that the tires one one side were 185 60 14 and the other 175 70 13. Time to take a run to the tire store and swap the spare over to the better rims. 20 bucks later it rolls like it used to.
So thanks all' My guess is that given a little bit of sunshine the first time I looked at it I would have seen the bulge and never asked the questions I did. Tough to source out problems at the end of a flashlight in the rain.
Check the tire: After they removed it and threw it on the junk pile
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20120211-00060.jpg)
And Still on the rim:
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j475/Orcoaster/IMG-20120211-00057.jpg)
those tires are junk.. i ran a set once upon a time, and 3 of the 4 died early.. 1 had a bead rip out, and 2 suffered broken belts. one of witch was almost exactly the same broken as the tire you pictured.. almost thought it was a picture of my old tires for a second!
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R.O.R. I picked these up from a guy in July, it was 95 degrees here in Portland and I was buying snowtires. Yes, think ahead.
Well buyer beware is what I think I learned here because this it the second tire of the set that has gone gunny bag on me. The man honestly sold them to me with the disclaimer, I have had these sitting around a long time so they may not hold up very well. Depends on how you run them. Well I ran them hot, hard and in a fully overloaded car most of the time. The potholes, railroad tracks and such may have played into their demise but I still am running two on the front. Another unmatched set, that I know is only one year old, are on the back.
Lesson learned, Craigslist is good, I picked up four tires and steelie rims for 80 bucks. In that time I have spent 120 buying new tires and getting them all mounted and balanced and another 80 on the cool, you love em, snowflake rims. Come spring I will invest in new tires on different rims so I can swap easily between the summer and winter sets. Those will cost me 300 so where did I save money and aggravation?
Buyer beware. Seems a waste of plenty of good tread to throw them away but I can't drive them that way now can I.
DAS