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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: JBG3 on January 20, 2012, 08:03:12 am
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Hi, New member here. Glad to have joined a diesel specific VW forum vs lowering and stance discussions. ;D
I am trying to identify what I need to do as far as resolving a line up problem with my accessory and crank pulleys. I have a 1986 Jetta that I swapped a 1.6 NA out of a 1985 jetta into. I had previously driven the 1985 jetta for a little under a year until its rust problems became unsafe, and didn't really do anything major, so I never noticed, but now that I switched engines into a new less rusty body, and also replaced the alternator, I notice that the crank pulley is about 1/2 inch further out than the water pump and alt pulleys, which line up with each other.
The engine is a non A/C 1.6. My question is can I replace the crank pulley, or space out the accessory pulleys, and basically identifying what part I need to get them to line up properly.
thanks!
Here is a pic of the reference issue, its about 1 3rd of the joint on my finger off-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/pulleysdontlineup.jpg)
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one of your pullies is not off that car.. is it about 5mm out of line? the difference between gasser and diesel pulley offset is 5mm..
i would say that your water pump pulley is off an EARLY engine, like a 1.5D maybe, or early 1.6..
i had just the opposite issue of yours.. mine was cured with a small aluminum spacer..
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Im going to try and space out the water pump pulley, and do the same with the alternator to match it up I think.
I have available a non A/C crank pulley from a 81 caddy, and a A/C crank pulley from an 85 golf. Think any of those might work? I have to pull them off spare engines and compare I guess.
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Best bet is to get an entire set off an engine, if you have a spare around. The pulleys in your pictures look pretty rusty anyhow, meaning they will eat belts faster than a cleaner set.
If there's a full set on another engine that's looking nicer I wouldn't hesitate to swap them all together.
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Yea, like was mentioned, i would pull atleast the crank and water pump pulleys off another car, as well as the alt pulley if you have it also..
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well, since I started this post, I have another 1.6 motor from an 81 rabbit I was going to grab all three pulleys from, and it has the exact same spacing problem! Must be more common problem than I thought that people would throw any all pulley on there.
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well, since I started this post, I have another 1.6 motor from an 81 rabbit I was going to grab all three pulleys from, and it has the exact same spacing problem! Must be more common problem than I thought that people would throw any all pulley on there.
same spacing problem? like crank is too far out, and wp is too far in?
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same problem like the WP and alternator are too far in. Heres a pic (sorry for these kind of unclear pics).
On the 81 motor, the WP is pushed in 1/8th of an inch, and the alternator is even further, a little over 1/4 inch in from the crank pulley. Not a single one of them line up! ;D
I will just proceed with my original plan to space out the pulleys on my jetta to match the crank.
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/81pulleys.jpg)
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I've seen this on most non-ac cars. The WP pulley sticks out notably in relation to the alt and crank. Not a real issue unless you're running multiple belts, but probably not great for the life of the belt.
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The wp is closer to the crank & so is a little more critical. I had to put a 1/8" spacer behind it to get mine to line up. Alt is further out and is a little more forgiving.
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So I have not yet dealt with this problem, and I think its having an impact on a more pressing problem, and its time to fix both.
Over the last two weeks I've put something like 1500 miles on this car on business trips. I'm getting between 40 and 45mpg, so I'm psyched about this little car, already saved me over 100 bucks in fuel.
However, I keep having a problem with the alternator loosening up. This has happened almost every time I fill up, approx every 500 miles. Is there an upgrade to the lack of a tensioner on this car? I have a slot with a bolt and nut on the back side. It has a lockwasher on it, but its not doing the job.
As I type this, I'm stuck on the side of the road waiting to cool down so I can make it to an auto parts store, lost the belt this time.
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I guarentee it loosened up due to a worn out alternator bushing.
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I guarentee it loosened up due to a worn out alternator bushing.
its a fresh reman alternator though, only been on the car for 2000 miles. It seems to be sliding on the lower mount bracket, ill post a pic when I figure a way to get this car up to my workspace and fix it
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I should have been more specific, the alternator bolt hole wears egg-shaped, which causes the alternator to wiggle on the bolt, and causes the alternator bolt hole to wear egg shaped, thus ruining the alternator bolt hole and causing a headache.
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Just to be a worry guts, but the crankshaft isn't loose? Knackered thrust bearing wise? ???
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Just to be a worry guts, but the crankshaft isn't loose? Knackered thrust bearing wise? ???
Theres a front main seal leak, but it seems really tight otherwise. After reading this, I tried to make extra sure, and it seems good. Alarming thought! ;D
The crank pulley and water pump pulley are both tweaked slightly though, turn with a little wobble.
I put a new belt on this car (turns out to be the correct model, original belt was too long), and it IMMEDIATELY started to eat the belt, less than 30 miles cooked a lot of the side of the belt, so I had to deal with it fast
-Little bits of melted belt-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/011.jpg)
about 1/8th off here in this picture from underneath-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/012.jpg)
I ended up using 6 cut flat washers and 3 new bolts that were longer to get it out further. Turns out all the water pump pulleys on the parts engines are the same as this, so I took one of those off and will get a machine shop to rig up a legit spacer for me vs these washers, but this will work for now-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/015.jpg)
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/016.jpg)
Lines up much better, but I should really replace both these pulleys, they both wobble pretty bad. I tried to clock the wobble as best I could so one wouldn't be wobbling one way while the other was wobbling opposite and stretching the belt, but easier said than done. ;D
reinstalled-
(http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd387/tinworm2/86%20VW%20Jetta/017.jpg)
Even with the wobble, its way better lined up vs wobbling and way off.
Unfortunately, theres not much I can do about the alternator pulley. The nut is already right on the end of the threads, and trying to space it out 1/8th would expose too much of the nut, half of it would be off the threads. Its still in about the same place the water pump originally was. The distance away probably will work in my favor, does not seem to be cooking the belt anymore with a test run, but ill watch it to make sure.
This is a weird problem to have, I can't believe all three of the 1.6 motors im sitting on all have the same problem!
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There's a lock washer on the alternator pully,
that can be removed.
Put a spacer under the pully and use lock-tite on the nut.
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I think that some of your belt problems may be from your nasty pulleys. The rust and pits act as teeth and will chew up a belt in nothing flat. Seems to be a common problem. They're down so low that they are the first things to hit mud & debris. Mine would squeal horribly whenever I hit a puddle. I built a tin shield and it helps a lot.
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so I shot a video of the engine running so you all can see the wobble in action. At idle, its pretty nasty looking, but once its at load, it calms down.
The belt is jumping around a lot related to the crank pulley, but also the crappy reman alternator in there, which has something broken inside after 3000 miles, and the bearings are also loosening up inside, some shaft play. You can hear the rattle in the background, didn't pick up all that well with the camera, but its super loud. Ive already pulled that and am giving the auto parts store the chance to make good and give me another one.
http://youtu.be/nL15KYzYyqg
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From your video, the alternator doesn't seem to be all that bad. The crank pulley is something else though. Looks like it got wanged at some point and wobbles pretty bad. A new one would be best but I suppose that you could try to un-wang it with a hammer. good luck.
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Hey, I was under the impression that the water pumps pully HUB was just pressed on? and that when ordering water pumps if you got stuck with the wrong one you could easily repair it with minimal tools? in his situation a three slot puller could fix the problem? just put the bolts through the puller threaded into the hub and push on the water pump shaft? this would have to be done with the water pump OFF the car? or possibly loosen some motor mounts and lower the water pump to below the frame?
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The water pump pully comes off easily once the bolts are removed.
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I'm talking about moving the hub it bolts to
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What with a press?
I don't see why though. The cars use the same pump, the pulleys are what's different. Some of the mk1 cars had a different pump but they were a different size hub too so the pulleys don't swap.
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maybe I whacked it when I was dropping the motor in. Is a crank pulley something I can buy new? I had assumed id have to get another one from a parts motor or some such.
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Your pulleys look more like an archeological find than a machine part. E-bay might be a source. Hopefully you could find a WP one too. I'm sure that there are all kinds of mix & match applications so that'll be fun. Mine has a second sheave for power steering that's unused and runs with no problems. New? I don't know. Maybe Pelham auto parts for a start.
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so to follow up on this thread with some probably useful data.
I ultimately sold this car several thousand miles after this thread, maybe 5-10k? She was driving around and apparently the crank pulley broke in half do to rust. Right along the V section, the outboard side of the V fell off, and the belt flew off. She ended up replacing the crank pulley, but worth mentioning what ultimately happened.