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Engine Specific Info and Questions => IDI Engine => Topic started by: levi20AE on January 10, 2012, 02:54:20 am
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/24pb50o.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/o7vr5k.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2mzmm39.jpg)
pictures stolen from the internet, but identical pump.
I recently purchased an AAZ with low miles but after getting it home i noticed the pump does not have a line for boost enrichment. It came from a german MkIII and has an extra limit switch on top that i wont need in a MkI. What are the advantaged/disadventages of not having a boost line too the pump? Can it be converted over to easily?
Thanks,
Levi
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That I believe is merely a 'blank', undrilled etc.
This is basically an n/a pump with added swittch rubbish.
No boost line means no turbo related input so all fuelling done with your foot.
Simpler to get another pump I believe, as you with need to butcher another pump to get the parts...
Do you have some numbers on the side for me to look up, thanks?
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across the pond they had 1.9l N/A's i assume this is off one.
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I don't know if they got eco diesels over yonder but that pump is similar to some of the ones we got up here in Canada on our eco diesels. It's off a non-ac car. The switch is for the EGR system I think.
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I pulled the switch off and the brackets associated with it, that's when I noticed the pact of a boost port. The motor did come with an AC braket though. The turbo is made by Garrett and has T2 on the label, if that helps. Do you guys think this motor would run less boost or make less power?
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It looks to be either an "eco" aaz pump or an "altitude compensating NA" mk2 pump. I think all it would need for real turbo duty is a star wheel, spring, boost pin and a "real" lda top.
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Will this motor run less boost than a standard TD then? If it is an Eco motor are the internals he same as those found in normal TDs?
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Will this motor run less boost than a standard TD then? If it is an Eco motor are the internals he same as those found in normal TDs?
No it won't run less boost not that boost means all that much and yes it has the same internals. Even if it were a 1y non turbo 1.9 idi it would still have oil squirters but it would have different pistons and rods. The difference being that the na Rods are longer(the engine still has the same stroke as that is determined by the crank). Longer rods make safer rod angles so ur less likely to bend a rod but produce less torque. Either way a 1.9 idi is a 1.9 idi the differences are minute
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AC and non-AC brackets are the same on the AAZ (as I recall)
The engine should make just as much boost as with one with a LDA, but it will take longer to build boost. Honestly, the stock boost pin on the AAZ pumps is almost worthless. They pretty much are all NA pumps ::) Unless you are planning on doing some mods, I wouldn't worry about the LDA (or lack of one)
The guts of that LDA are not machined so it would be a lot of work to get a functioning LDA out of it. Plus you would be missing quite a few pieces that are very expensive if bought separately.
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i had my n/a pump maxed out, and it only made 15psi boost on a good day, and smoked like a train on the bottom end..
now i have a fully functioning TD pump, and it makes closer to 20psi, with less fuel screw, and no smoke..
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Thanks everyone for all the help and information!
i had my n/a pump maxed out, and it only made 15psi boost on a good day, and smoked like a train on the bottom end..
now i have a fully functioning TD pump, and it makes closer to 20psi, with less fuel screw, and no smoke..
this has been the case on my current 1.6NA that i added a turbo to with the NA pump. I'm worried that in order to make decent tq i will need to add fuel down low and result in extra smoke. I have already dealt with the local smoke nazis.
BTW: here is a video of this motor on an engine dyno from the seller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jELk5zKsKYg&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jELk5zKsKYg&feature=player_embedded)
If you ever get a chance to do business with Quality German Auto Parts i wouldn't hesitate. Great guy, he even delivered the engine from LA to Vegas for $50 and saved a lot of money on CA sales tax since the exchange was out of state.
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Will this motor run less boost than a standard TD then? If it is an Eco motor are the internals he same as those found in normal TDs?
No it won't run less boost not that boost means all that much and yes it has the same internals. Even if it were a 1y non turbo 1.9 idi it would still have oil squirters but it would have different pistons and rods. The difference being that the na Rods are longer(the engine still has the same stroke as that is determined by the crank). Longer rods make safer rod angles so ur less likely to bend a rod but produce less torque. Either way a 1.9 idi is a 1.9 idi the differences are minute
Could you please explain this? Surely a longer rod is a weaker rod, unless made stockier, and heavier. The torque lowering is also hard to grasp. Cheers.
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It has to do with how much of an angle the rod is placed at during rotation. A longer rod is placed at a lesser angle so it is less likely to bend or be stressed. A shorter rod is placed at sharper angles and is more likely to bend but it gives a mechanical advantage producing more torque. Rod length also effects the speed of the piston at different parts of the stroke. It's a bunch of craziness generally tho shorter rods are better for low end power longer rods are better for high rpm power
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http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm
This is the best thorough explanation also this place is local to me
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It has to do with how much of an angle the rod is placed at during rotation. A longer rod is placed at a lesser angle so it is less likely to bend or be stressed. A shorter rod is placed at sharper angles and is more likely to bend but it gives a mechanical advantage producing more torque. Rod length also effects the speed of the piston at different parts of the stroke. It's a bunch of craziness generally tho shorter rods are better for low end power longer rods are better for high rpm power
i always thought short rods were good for turning a bazillion RPMS, like a honda..
and long rods were for torque, like in a diesel..
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It has to do with how much of an angle the rod is placed at during rotation. A longer rod is placed at a lesser angle so it is less likely to bend or be stressed. A shorter rod is placed at sharper angles and is more likely to bend but it gives a mechanical advantage producing more torque. Rod length also effects the speed of the piston at different parts of the stroke. It's a bunch of craziness generally tho shorter rods are better for low end power longer rods are better for high rpm power
i always thought short rods were good for turning a bazillion RPMS, like a honda..
and long rods were for torque, like in a diesel..
the length of the stroke has that effect, a longer stroke makes more torque, shorter is better for high rpm. but the stoke is only determined by the throw of the crank not the length of the rod. but in general assuming the pistons are the same an engine with a longer stroke will have a shorter rod.
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OK, so the consensus is that the pump is probably some sort of German version of an Eco diesel.
My next question is, where is the pop-off valve to limit max boost? my old 1.6TD manifold had a black plastic valve that looked like a PVC valve that suposedly limited the max boost by letting the excess back into the intake prior to the compressor. The manifold on this AAZ motor does not have one? is this normal? On my old motor i took off the plastic valve and made an aluminum block-off plate cause i never made enough boost to open the valve anyways (NA pump). Is it because it is an Eco motor they dont anticipate the engine making enough boost to require a control valve?
Also this motor has an EGR setup that i plan to get rid of by using the neck for the intake manifold off of the 1.6TD setup and a block-off plate on the exhaust manifold. Does this sound right or logical? Also since i have to drill a hole in the mani for the EGT probe, can i mount it in the EGR block off plate? will there be a large difference in exhaust gas temperatures in the orphaned EGR port?
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best spot to get an average EGT is before the turbo where all the cylinders come together. The EGR port isn't the best.
The "pop off" you are looking for was eliminated by VW. IIRC it was called an overboost protection valve. Since the turbos are internally wastegated they don't need it. VW being VW had them incase of wastegate failure. To add boost you would have to add a manual controller or *not recommended* block the wastegate off. If you did that and still had the overboost thing, that is when the overboost thing would work.
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I've tried the egr port just in-case you're thinking about using it. It will show no higher than about 450 to 500° when stepping on it hard, when actually whats coming out of the cylinders ahead of the turbo in the flow of exhaust is more like 1200° or so!
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I ended up tapping the longest runner.
I finished the AAZ swap this week and got it fired up. It started up immediately but was smoked blue/gray smoke and had a really rough idle like it was a tooth off. I pulled the valve cover and rechecked the timing at the cam, pump, and flywheel and everything was spot on still. I searched to see if there was a difference between the German AAZ flywheel and my original 1.6 NA flywheel. I had to swap the 1.6 flywheel and clutch to the AAZ motor to mate to the FN tranny. Are the timing markings on AAZ and 1.6 NA flywheels different?
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I've tried the egr port just in-case you're thinking about using it. It will show no higher than about 450 to 500° when stepping on it hard, when actually whats coming out of the cylinders ahead of the turbo in the flow of exhaust is more like 1200° or so!
Wow! Good to know! :o
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the flow in the EGT port is stagnant, and the EGT probe neds the gasses to be moving around it very quickly to get a good accurate reading..
the only way to get a GOOD reading from the EGR port, is to use a very long, curved EGT probe..
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It's an "umwelt" pump, we had a few AAZ's in Canada with that setup for about a 6 month period. It's neutered with no LDA to keep emissions down.
I had Giles modify mine to a standard 1.9 TD pump spec when he rebuilt it, but it cost a fair bit more than a standard performance build.
You're better off getting a core pump off of another AAZ.
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thanks. I figured out the reason the timing felt so off. On my old 1.6 i never pulled the cold start lever unless it was really cold. on this motor it has to pulled out on every start up until its warm or it idles rough and lots of light grey smoke. I took it to a dyno day at a local shop for its maiden voyage and with a little extra fuel it made 77hp and 142 ft-lbs on a mustang dyno. Then it proceeded to roast my new stock clutch on the way home driving like an @$$hole. I couldnt be happier coming from a 1.6NA with a turbo bolted onto the back of it.
The EGTs read really high on this turbo compared to the K24 on the 1.6 would there be an issue swapping to the larger turbo with this pump?
Also what is the proper proceedure for hooking up the cold start valve at the back of the pump. This pump has alot more available motion (lever can pull out much further from the dash). How do you know what is the proper postion?
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thanks. I figured out the reason the timing felt so off. On my old 1.6 i never pulled the cold start lever unless it was really cold. on this motor it has to pulled out on every start up until its warm or it idles rough and lots of light grey smoke. I took it to a dyno day at a local shop for its maiden voyage and with a little extra fuel it made 77hp and 142 ft-lbs on a mustang dyno. Then it proceeded to roast my new stock clutch on the way home driving like an @$$hole. I couldnt be happier coming from a 1.6NA with a turbo bolted onto the back of it.
The EGTs read really high on this turbo compared to the K24 on the 1.6 would there be an issue swapping to the larger turbo with this pump?
Also what is the proper proceedure for hooking up the cold start valve at the back of the pump. This pump has alot more available motion (lever can pull out much further from the dash). How do you know what is the proper postion?
i would advance timing or atleast check it before you decide you need a new turbo..
retarded timing will make things REALLY HOT..